Tom, it's not like anybody here is trying to control. It's not like anybody here could do that even if they wanted to.

You can do whatever you like.

But if you want a plan that can make your situation better, it's here. And if you want people to help you figure out what you're missing that's keeping the plan from working, here we are.

The plan works.

What a wonderful sentiment...

You really should contact Hallmark and have them put that in Wedding Cards.

Sure some are "happier" because they are the ones that legitimately left their previous adulterous and abusive spouses (it's unknown that most divorces involve cheating by, at least, one spouse).

The others...we'll they invested a lot of pain and heartache into the endeavor (many of them completely wayward in thought and deed) so they have a vested interest and either THINKING they are happier or PORTRAYING to others that they are happier. Deep down they are concealing a lot of grief, shame and regret. Studies demonstrate this.

My point in saying "bloom where you are planted" was meant to confer that God has you exactly where you were meant to be. Your wife is presenting the exact problems for you that God intended to challenge you with when He chose her for you. Could be a problem with pride or the opposite...insecurity. I don't know. What I do know is you made a vow to God (and your wife) until death do you part. You break that vow = VERY NEAR guaranteed unhappiness. Thus...if "happiness" is what you seek you are very likely ONLY going to find it with the wife you already chose.

Just because you have a legal right to divorce doesn't make it right.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF DIVORCE WASN'T AN OPTION (unless your wife cheated on you)????

Mr. Wondering

Yes, Tom, I do believe honesty is a black and white issue. You seem to mistake complete honesty with being mean. And no one said you can't be honest without being rude.

I don't know, Tom. I like my spouse to be completly honest with me when she's unhappy. I can't fix those the things that I'm doing that are making her unhappy if I don't know she's unhappy.

I'm assuming you mean household chores. Here is the MB way to handle those:

1. Make a list of all the chores that need to be done.
2. Each of you put your name by the chores you like to do and would be happy to do.
3. Now you've got a list of chores left that neither of you wants to do. So you put your name by the ones that are important to you to get done.
4. Now you either do the ones that are important to you, or hire someone else to do it, but you DON'T force your spouse to do them...because...they don't care if they get done! YOU do! So do it!

Steve Harley had me and my H each make a list of the chores we thought were important to be done around the house. We made them, and my H's was pages long. Mine was quite briefer. We got back on the phone, SH asked if we'd done our homework...yep, sure did!...then he said, "Okay, now each of you is responsible for doing things on YOUR list."

My husband spent SIX HOURS sweeping and mopping the floor (about 1000sf of hardwood), which he said he wanted done three times a week, and when he was finished, he said, "I guess I'd be okay if this got done just once a week, like on your list." bwa-ha-ha.

You don't FORCE your spouse into manual labor! If you want something done around the house, do it yourself! And be thankful (PRAISE) when she does something that is on YOUR list.

Why, Tom? What would happen if you shared all of yourself? Does it make you feel smarter if you know more than someone else does? Do you equate it to losing your soul?

Where does this belief come from?

It's okay, stilly - I made a joke over on vivi's thread in SAA, and he didn't get the humor.

Your way is obviously not working. You are in no position to look askance at a poster whose way IS working.

And where is the dividing line between white and not-so-white lies, Tom? Because choosing to tell 'white' (I'm not sure how the word "white" makes them "okay", but whatever) lies can easily slide into damaging lies. You are the best example. You are lying to your wife and your lies are not 'white' by any stretch. They are life-altering lies, and yet you believe you are doing a good deed and being a good guy because you LIE TO YOUR WIFE.

Do you see where this is totally skewed thinking??

Well, God forbid you sit down with her and discuss it honestly! That might make your M better!

On the praise thing, it sounds like one of your wife's emotional needs might be admiration. She might just really need to hear things like that from you to stay enough in love with you to be motivated to meet your needs. I adore my husband but I wouldn't carry on doing things for him that he seemingly didn't notice or appreciate. Like CWMI said, everyone's ideas of what is a necessary level of housework are different, and you don't get to be right on this issue or any other, you work through it with her using radical honesty and poja.

Have you gone through the questionnaires WITH YOUR WIFE?

You say she's happy and she loves you, how do you know she isn't just telling a little white lie and trying to make the best of it too? I go through phases of feeling very in love with my hubby and phases of not so much. Thankfully because I can go to him immediately and say "Hey I'm not feeling so in love right now, can we have a chat about what changes we need to make for me to get those feelings back?" it never lasts beyond a week or so.

But then he's familiar with the marriage builders concepts and we know its fixable and we have the tools to fix it. He doesn't get hurt when I say this to him because he understands that honesty is an act of love and is happy I want to put effort into remaining passionate about him for life.

No...He got it...I was only kidding. Now I have to go to Vi's thread cuz I am curious...

Wondering;
To me, there are different reasons why people get divorced; an affair, abuse, people change, married to someone who is just not a good person, wanting something better in life, everyone has their own reason if they choose to do that.
I am not going to judge someone poorly if they choose to get divorced, yes they made a vow to God, but that is between them and God. We all sin, and every sin is the same. Divorce is not the answer for everyone who is in a bad situation or who is unhappy, but it can result of better lives. Look, I am not on here trying to advocate for the D word, no. I am saying that a D does not make someone a bad person. Ideally, everyone would get married once and live happily ever after, and I wish every ideal could be reality.

I got the humor in both of them...my response was my method of deflection.

The bolded is a sign of a renter mentality, Tom.

But nobody ever accused you of not being a renter...

I feel confident in saying she is in love with me because she doesn't hide it. If she is happy, she tells me, if she is upset, she tells me. Communication and her are very good friends.
I understand that people see things with different levels of importance, especially for what "needs" to be done around the house. The problem is, that I don't think that it is right if one person sees things as more important, that means they have to do it all. A marriage is a partnership, sharing the load of the good and the bad. They are called chores for a reason, they are not fun to do, but they need to be done. I don't WANT to do all of these things around the house, but I don't want to live in a pig pen either. To me, when more than one person lives in a home, those people agree to share the load of taking care of the home; wether those people are married or not. I don't think she should help out and do those extra things to make me happy (it is great if she does it for that reason), but instead do it because its our house and WE need to share the load in getting it all done. If we were just roomates, or siblings living together, I would think the same thing, share the load.

And no, I have not gone through the Questionairres with her, mostly because I don't want her finding out about this site and eventually reading my posts. (I know; need RH)

So someone being married to another who is not a good person, they should have to stay married to them. I could not disagree more. (I am not saying this for myself, I think my wife is a wonderful person). I have known others very close to me where this was the case and their D was the best choice they could have made. We are very happy they dumped that good for nothing piece of garbage on the side of the road.

I have tried, believe me I have tried discussing those issues with her, it just has not gotten anyway. I have approached it from different angles, and if it improves it is for a very short time and then back to before. But those times are even few and far between. Please don't think I have not tried talking to her about it.

Tom, can you attempt a series of trades? You do something she would like i exchange for her doing something you would like?

But you think it is right for someone to expect their spouse to do it for them??? And secretly LOATHE them for not doing it???

So, you think you have all the answers, and MB and Steve Harley are just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Go write your own books, then, on how to have a happy and fulfilling marriage. Maybe we can learn from you...

Like, I'll have sex with her in exchange for her doing the dishes afterwards....