Perhaps if you actually told her about the MB site and shared some of this with her, read through the concepts together, took the EN questionnaire together, and discussed your answers, TOGETHER, then things might improve. She would then have the tools to improve them.

Right now, you're working a two-sided plan from only one side. Well, since you don't agree with all of the concepts (such as Radical Honesty) you aren't even really working one side. Then, when it doesn't work, you wonder why and claim there must be something wrong with the program.

There's nothing wrong with the program. You're just not doing it. If you don't do it, it will never work for you.

What defines "Not a good person"? Who gets to make this judgment?

My H has said I am not a good person because I tell telemarketers to remove my number, I'm on the DNC list and if they call me again I will report them to the Feds. Does that make it so?

Thank you for ignoring the parts where I think 2 people should share the load together. I am not saying, make someone do something. I am frustrated at the fact that she doesn't seem to care about sharing the load with me. Instead seems perfectly happy with me doing all of those things while she can sit back and reep the benefits of them being done.

I guess everyone has their own defintion of what a "bad person" is.
I believe myself to be a very forgiving person, some have told me too forgiving. So when I have a relative, a very close relative, that I deem to be so bad of a person that I have no desire to ever see or speak to again in my life, seeing someone divorce them, and create a new and better life for themselves, makes me very happy.

That's all fine and dandy Tom, and no one is suggesting someone remain married to a child molester or a spouse who beats them or gets drunk every night and has a one-night stand every week. Yes, there are bad people who probably wouldn't make a particularly good spouse in the world.

But what does that have to do with your situation? Why do you constantly feel the need to deflect and take attention away from your poor choices?

Talking to you feels a little bit like talking to a 2-year old. Every suggestion you are given is responded to with a counter-point. You argue about why things won't work for you before you even try them.

You're a like a child refusing to eat their vegetables, because they just KNOW they aren't going to like them. I did that as a child. I ate no vegetables (other than carrots and green beans). I was certain I would hate them. Guess what? Now that I'm actually willing to try things, vegetables are some of my favorite foods. It took me about 20 years to figure out that I liked them, but I eventually did figure it out.

Why do you have to be so petulant and stubborn and argumentative about everything? It's a developmental stage with a 2-year-old. It's even kind of cute. But really, it isn't that productive in a 30+ year old man.

Of course, you're probably either going to ignore my comment or come up with a counter-argument for it that (in your eyes) proves you are right and I am wrong.

You know what I think? I think you won't agree to try the MB program because you're afraid it might actually WORK and then you would have to admit you are wrong.

TomOlympus,

If you would implement the MB principles - ALL of them - you would be able to express to her that one of your EN's is Domestic Support. You would also be able to use POJA to work out who does what and how the load gets shared. BUT you are too busy dwelling on her faults and venting them to your girlfriend and would rather just complain thanbe proactive and do something about it. You just want to point fingers instead of trying to fix things in a productive, non-attacking, loving way.

That is getting pleasure from someone else's misfortune. Does that make you a bad person?

I am not getting pleasure from the other persons misfortune; I am getting pleasure from the person I care abouts better fortune. They are happy now, which is what makes me quite happy. The other person, their life has no impact on me anymore.

More flawed logic. You are at odds with yourself. Look again at what you've written; you are happy when you see someone you care about bettering themselves. Yet you don't lift a finger to better the two most important people in your life: you and your wife. That's a real puzzler to me.

Some people truly derive pleasure in being miserable. I think you're one of them, Tom.

maybe i'm not totally following the conversation, but i don't see tom's logic as being flawed...i too am happy when other people are happy and working on themselves, but it shouldn't be all based on what i'm doing...the day anyone puts their happiness solely on my shoulders is the day they set themselves and me up for failure, b/c I can guarantee this...i will fail...

i'm the only person responsible for my own happiness...the day i started realizing that fact was the day i started to change...i meet my wife's EN's to the best of my ability, but that's not a guarantee of her happiness...until she is happy with herself, where she is in her life, she'll never be happy...i can't MAKE her happy...

the same as money can't make people happy...people think that, but there's lots of miserable millionaires that aren't happy...they'll never be happy and satisfied until they themselves learn that it's them themselves that's responsible for their own happiness...

my wife for example...she was miserable being a SAHM and homeschooling...it was nothing I was doing...she was having to live her life doing what wasn't enjoyable to her anymore...me meeting her EN's where one thing, but she was still not happy with herself...now that she's been in college getting ready to graduate this Spring and is looking forward to a Career, she's happy with herself and were her life is going...i supported her throughout her time as a SAHM and when she thought homeschooling was the right decision...but she's the one that has to wake up with herself every morning and walk in those shoes...not me...i can't walk for her.

*~*~ ding ding ding ~*~*

No more calls...we have a winner.

He is the "I Do, (until I can do better)" vow maker.


He is just waiting for all the student loans and the truck to be paid off...then he's gonna be onto "something better".

committed

come on now...the terms "wanting something better" can go hand in hand with any of his reasons for a divorce...an affair, abuse...a spouse that's a chronic cheater...would not the other spouse want a divorce because they "want something better"?

but don't mistake...i firmly believe that when we marry we do so for better or for worse, sickness and in health till death do us part...i take those vows and covenant i made before God seriously...but i understand too that we are still a fallen race of people and some people just aren't strong enough to gut out the hard times trusting that things will get better...

my mother is an example...she stayed with my father, an alcoholic for over 24 years until he sobered up...looking back she says she wouldn't have changed a thing...and i remember being a kid begging my mom to leave him...

Mr A, your mother is an example of what? Someone who is strong, or should have left?

Okay Mr. Anderson, but none of this applies to Tom. His wife didn't have an affair (though he is having an EA). She isn't abusive or an alcoholic. Tom even states that his wife is a good person.

Yet, he still plans to divorce her someday.

So obviously, since she doesn't fall into any of the other categories used to justify ending a marriage, he is considering leaving her simply because he "wants something better."

He's biding his time until he's more financially stable and someone he deems more of "his" caliber comes along, and then he's going to leave her.

someone who understood her vows and trusted that things would get better...

then again, i don't think i could advise someone to stay with an alcoholic for 24 years either...all situations are different...my dad was an alcoholic, but a functional one...we had a roof over our heads and food and clothes, but it wasn't easy living with him and his temper...

well and he may very well divorce her someday...it goes back to my post on page 69 about happiness...tom's wife can meet his needs all day, yet until tom is happy with himself, his life and where his life is going, he'll never be satisfied...

he can divorce his wife and find someone else who he thinks is making him happy, but sooner or later, the old feelings will creep back up and he'll feel his life is empty again...

the cycle will never break until tom realizes the true root of the problem...

Maybe you are right committed, maybe that is one way to define me. The part about that that I do not see as wrong is trying to make sure 2 people are happy up until that point. I mean, if I had not married my wife, would either of us be happier now or would have life been worse along the way. There is no way of knowing for sure. What I do know is that I would not trade the experience I have had, we grow and learn from everything we do in life.

Mr. A, thank you for not just jumping down my back, I appreciate what you do have to say. I understand your idea of needing to break the cycle, I just am not sure what the root of the problem actually is.

The root of the problem is that you are dishonest, you admit to that, but I will speculate that you are also shallow and a bit narcissistic. I say this because you are concerned more with the appearance of things than on actuality.

Have you considered the possibility that you may be clinically depressed?

And I don't mean that as an insult. I struggle with depression myself, so I know how serious a problem it can be. But it's something that you might want to look into.

mr. anderson, have you read all of this thread?