The level of her emotional connection with OM (which is obviously still strong at present) can always be debated by her.

Take the debate out of the equation.

It's irrelevant.

No contact is a non-negotiable prerequisite to recovering a marriage after an affair.

Period.

I got to this part and said "Okay, next thing she'll do is try to butter him up."

And then...

she did.

This is all typical, THG. She's trying to negotiate to keep both of you in the picture. Do not allow this. Your M will not survive with three of you in it.

Have you informed OMW of the things that have led you to believe the A is continuing? You should inform her of each contact. OMW is your best ally right now.

Where can I find information on Plan B?

Plan A & B
I don't think you're there yet, THG, but it's good info to know.

[/quote]No contact is a non-negotiable prerequisite to recovering a marriage after an affair.

Period.[/quote]

So under our current agreement my WW has until mid next week, before my daughter returns from college and the holidays to decide if she will commit to no contact with the OM, which requires her to leave her job of 24 years.

If she says that the affair is over, it has been exposed and he cannot make contact with me... but I cannot leave my job. We then move to Plan B, which is a trial seperation.

At that time there is no contact between the two of us. Is that how I am reading the advice from everyone? During the time that she is debating the decision I should create a positive environment at home, with the exception of the 'no contact' topic, which I must be firm and confirm this is not negotiable.

On that topic I should state "WW your affair is the most painful experience I've ever experienced in my life. If no contact is not agreed to we will head towards seperation and possibly divorce.

Anything else to consider?

OMW did not return my call on Wednesday.

Put a hidden GPS on her car.

Yep. That's your agreement. You BOTH made it. She was there.

Yes, you've got it. This is your best plan.

I suspect your WW is working hard to figure out how to keep it all - you, her OM, and her job. I'll also guarantee you that she is NOT looking at other options, like how much it would cost her to live alone. Which, technically, she should be doing, since she's taking her two weeks to get everything figured out, right? Moving out should be something she's considering, but you can bet she's not.

She has no intention of moving out. That's not on her To Do list. The only thing on her To Do list is "Keep Everything Like It Is." I also suspect that she will come to you at the end of the two weeks with some kind of half-baked 'solution' to give you that will allow her to keep all of that. I even more strongly suspect that she will come to you to try to 'buy time' so she doesn't have to decide right now. ("It's the holidays! DD is coming home! I can't leave now! You've got to give me more time! )

Your response needs to be the same. She had the agreed-upon two weeks to "figure it out". She still has to leave her job. If she is unwilling to do that, Plan B.

I suspect she is equating you with the most painful thing that's ever happened to her. It's called Avoidance. The poor thing. I know her pain only too well.

But. If you find evidence that the A is reigniting, you've got to call her. Every instance, until she tells you not to call her anymore.

I agree with all the others - she is still determined to somehow keep both her husband and her boyfriend. Be prepared for both manipulation and bullying while she tries to do this.

Here is the Boundaries post, if you have not seen it yet:

A boundary is not defined as "something I don't like."

A boundary is defined as "something I will defend no matter what."

A very common question is, "How do I enforce a boundary? How do I make my spouse stop lying, how do I make my spouse stop dating OP, how do I make my spouse start taking care of our family instead of someone else's?"

The answer is: You don't.

Trying to "make" people do the things listed above is not enforcing a boundary. It's control, it's manipulation, it's laying down demands, etc. etc. etc.

And none of it works.

The answer to the question, "How Do I Enforce A Boundary?" is virtually always the same:

You remove yourself from the situation. You stop allowing the boundary trespasser to have any access to you at all.

This is what's meant by, "You can't control others. You can only control yourself."

You can't "make" your spouse stop lying to you - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse stop dating OP - - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

You can't "make" your spouse take care of your family instead of someone else's - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do.

Get the idea now?

Boundaries are for *you*. They are to protect you from people who would do you harm. They are NOT about "making" others do anything. They are about protecting *YOU*.

Castle walls don't make the invaders stop their cruel and destructive attitudes - but they do protect you from their intrusion.

Boundaries are castle walls.

There is a castle two blocks from St Peters Basilica in Rome that my son and I visited this spring. I will keep that mental image as this moves forward. Thank you.

No Contact, transparancy and rebuild marriage or castle walls go up for protection.

Now to keep smiling and working Plan A until she makes her decision. Advent is the season of waiting. I am not a very patient person.

@THG12 -

Plan A is also about working on yourself.


Two things about this. Don't keep smiling. If something upsets you process this and figure out what it is. Then communicate it without LB. This is being honest.

Patience could be something also that you could be working on within yourself.

So What is the end date of your Plan A?

Thg12,
I know this whole situation is tough I was in the same boat as you 1 year ago,
It took my husband 3 months to decide to come back to the marriage,
When I first found out exposure happened because he told me he was in love with someone else and that our marriage was over,
I then drew up a separation agreement went to the bank, changed the accounts, separated our investments, applied for my own visa card...........the separation agreement said he was to leave the home, I was buying him out, I gave him his $$, all he had to do was move out..........
It was the most difficult thing I have ever done.........but I was firm, if he had any more contact with the OW like he wanted our marriage was finished.......
I asked him to respect me while we still lived under the same roof, he told the OW that he couldn't see her again until things were settled with us.......I think he knew he had one chance but he didn't know what to do with the mess he had created...........during the time, I lived my life the best I could, my friends were amazing and we there for me constantly............I continued to take care of his needs, except for sex while he still lived there with me........
I think he started to realize what he was giving up to be with a woman he had only known for 3 months........
He knew I meant what I said, he watched me take control of my life even though it was hard, You can be strong and stand up for yourself and your family........I did all this while I was on a chemo drug..........you find your strength........you keep your integrity and you handle yourself with Grace.........and remember God is always there with you when you think you can't take any more or you want to quit..............

So What is the end date of your Plan A?
[/quote]

December 15.

THG,

I implore you to look at what Dr H has to say about continuing contact, whether it be at work or "holiday parties."

From Dr H:

Yes. When you discuss this, let her know that you will not be leaving the house in the event of a divorce, that you will file on grounds of adultery [are you in a fault state?] and will have the OM and the OMW subpeonaed into court to give testimony about her adultery. Let her know you will not be "friends" with her and will seek a financial advantage if this comes to divorce.

Telling her that this will not be an easy or an amicable divorce will MAKE HER THINK TWICE ABOUT IT. But if she thinks you will go away without a squeek, she will consider that an attractive path.

See, what a WS wants most in these cases is an "amicable" divorce. She hopes you will be her "friend" in the future if she chooses the divorce so she won't feel so guilty.

You might take a moment to find out what your divorce laws are in your state. Even if you are in a no fault state, you might have a legal advantage because of her adultery. And in your case, you have an iron clad case because she signed that form!!

No fault state. Lawyer said the process is to 'get it done' not determine who is at fault.

I agree that I should let her know if we agree to a trial seperation there will be no contact and the same if we end up divorced.

Thanks for the advice about focusing on ME.

You don't want to tell her all of your plans. What you DO want to let her know is that there will be no nice D and no friendship afterwards. DON'T tell her about what will happen during Plan B.

Speaking of your Plan B, why are you going into it so quickly? DrH usually suggests Plan A be 6 months for a BH. I don't believe that you have done enough of the carrot side of Plan A yet.

What are her top 3 ENs and how have you been attempting to meet them? What LBs have you been guilty about committing in the past and what have you done to stop those? How have you worked on yourself?

My WW and I had a very open discussion Friday night after work and then spent some unplanned family time.

Saturday afternoon my WW became very quiet. She said that she feels 'bad' sometimes and just has to work through it. We went christmas shopping and she got quieter and quieter as tne night went on. By the time we returned home she was very withdrawn.

I am convinced that my WW must leave her job, to avoid all contact with the OM for life, but I do not feel the immediate threat to our relationship. The business has set up a no contact rule at work, which requires my wife to work directly with her supervisor and not the owner of the company.

If my WW agrees to leave her job within the next 4 - 6 months and begins a committed job search do you think I can stick with plan A for another ~4 months? I am committed to her leaving her job, that will not change, but I also don't want her to build resentment towards me if she leaves her job and can't find a new job in this economy.

My thought is to ask her today where WE are at. Not the decision to leave her job, but what we must do to meet each others emotional needs and rebuild our marriage. Then talk about the NC decision.

I guess my ultimate question is when do you know it is time to go to plan B and when are you forcing the decision before you rebuild the LB?

"If my WW agrees to leave her job within the next 4 - 6 months and begins a committed job search do you think I can stick with plan A for another ~4 months? I am committed to her leaving her job, that will not change, but I also don't want her to build resentment towards me if she leaves her job and can't find a new job in this economy."

Can your marriage afford for the afair to continue?
Can't save the marriage and her job. One or the other.
WW danced now she has to pay the band, and it doesn't matter once the band is paid and she has no more money left.
This is known as facing the consequences.

"My thought is to ask her today where WE are at."

You are not thinking!

"Not the decision to leave her job, but what we must do to meet each others emotional needs and rebuild our marriage."

You want a guarantee that recovery will be successful. No one can do that. Got to have a G then stop now and go straight to divorce.

"Then talk about the NC decision."

Talk about what. Nothing to talk about. NC is NC. Is she going to leave the job or not is the only thing to be said.

LAst stop being afraid of your WW.

What is going to do if she gets maid?

Bang the OM. Oooops, I forgot she is doing this now.

If WW uses the will have no money tell WW to file a sex harass suit, he was her boss. She siged the statement because she was afraid to lose her job.

My two cents

Your wife should nor remain in her place of work, you have given her two weeks to think, after two weeks if she has not submitted her resignation then she is not committed to the marriage.

She may no longer work directly for him but every time she sees his car, reads a work email, hears his voice, sees him in the passageway she will be thinking of him and her fantasy will continue. Your marriage will never recover while she works in the same company as him

Her only choice, even if it causes you economic hardship is she leaves at the end of the two weeks.

As for Plan B , the vets will give you a more robust answer, personally my advice is after the two weeks if there is no resignation letter and a 100% commitment to the processes to heal the marriage, you prep plan B , you may want to wait to the New Year to enact it. I would start it at the end of the two week period, the message is then clear, your marriage comes first and foremost.