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Hello out there. I am new here and need somewhere to vent. I know there are many acronyms that I need to learn so please bear with me this time... It all started for me back in Sept of this year but I guess for my wife it was before. Here is the story in a nutshell. I/we were going along like everything was fine. Then one day she sits me down and says she needs to talk to me. She tells me that she had kissed another man. I was shocked and angry of course and excused myself to go for a walk. I didn't yell or say anything I shouldn't have I just needed some space. So after cooling off as best as I could I came back in to talk about it. She said she was sorry and all and I forgave her but I was still upset for the next week. After talking with some close friends I came to realize that it was only a kiss and an isolated indecent and decided to move forward and get back to us. A few months passed and we seemed to drift to her we did. I went about my ways of playing sports about every night and not meeting her needs (now i know what mistakes i was making). Mid November I went deer hunting and she was on vacation for what we thought would be good for us. Well upon my return we still were struggling with our marriage. I called a counselor who my the grace of God is a believer in Dr. Harley's methods. We went for a bit and tried to work things out but it just wasn't clicking. Then came an email...the email was a made up name from someone at her work stating that she had been sleeping with a co-worker. I am not sure what emotion I felt but I called our counselor and she said just stay home, as I was out to confront everyone and do lord knows what to either of them. I calmed down as best as I could and listened. We went all weekend before I told her that I needed to talk to her and on that Sunday I explained to her that no matter what she told me I wasn't leaving and I just wanted the truth. I showed her the email and she confessed. So we went to the counselor the following day to try to mend all of this. To my surprise she was not and still is not ready to work on us. This is strange to say but we are better now than we were before this all happened as far as me communicating, showing affection, and her being open and honest. Their is no sex and hasn't been in months. Our kisses are mainly pecks and very very few open mouth. I am trying so hard to do things to make her want to fall back in love with me but she continues to see and talk to this other guy. now when I say see I mean she goes and spends the night with him. Our agreement is no sex and I am not happy about this at all but at least she is not sleeping with him anymore. I know I shouldn't believe her but I do feel that she is telling me the truth that they are not. I am so confused and frustrated that she doesn't know what choice to make...stay with me and work it out, go to him or to just be all by herself. My counselor has been a tremendous help and I am seeing some progress to her wanting to choose me but then there are times that I have doubts like this evening when she told me she was going to go see him and stay there and to top it off she may stay there tomorrow as well. She says she is sorry and doesn't want to hurt me and I tell her that every time she sees, talks or stays with him it does hurt me. I know she cares but then why would she want to do this to me knowing that it is killing me. I am a very patient man and love my wife to death but there are so many questions running through my head. I just wish she would come to her senses as she says she has no "feelings" about anything. I am not sure how long I can hold on to plan A and plan B scares me to death. I don't want to do anything that will push her to him but at the same time I need to get on with my/our life. I am so confused and frustrated. If anyone can help or has been through something similar please help! My counselor is a saint and I would recommend her to everyone but she can't be here 100% of the time. What can I do to get her to fall back in love with me? How long can I live like this? I have so many questions and so few answers. This is only an overview as there are so many more things that would take forever to explain in one post. if you have questions please ask! I am 30 Wife is 23 Married 1 year dated for 6.
The fact that your wife is having an A after only one year of being married does not bode well for your chances of success, unfortunately. I'm assuming that you don't have any children?
Your counselor doesn't seem familiar enough with MB. Have you read "Surviving an Affair?" If not, I suggest you get a copy immediately.
What you are doing is not Plan A, but rather Plan Doormat. Your wife is allowed to go back and forth between you and her boyfriend with absolutely no consequences whatsoever. That is NOT what Dr. Harley recommends at all.
Have you exposed this A to anyone? If not, then that is your first order of business. You need to tell EVERYONE. Your wife's family, your family, the OM's wife/girlfriend/family, your wife's boss and co-workers (since this is a workplace A). Exposure is the best tool you have at your disposal to kill this A.
And please don't believe that your wife isn't sleeping with this guy! She's spending the night at his house for crying out loud. I mean, come on. They're having sex, just accept it.
Since this is a very short marriage and you are young, I think you need to take a really long, hard look at whether or not you want to save this marriage. You haven't been married very long and you have no children (I'm assuming), so even Dr. Harley would generally recommend that you cut your losses and go to Plan D. Why is that you want to save this marriage considering the fact that you've only been married for a year and your wife is already cheating on you?
Last edited by writer1; 12/14/1006:42 PM.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
I am curious why you are so unwilling to fight for your marriage? From reading this I wonder what kind of uncaring, callous husband cares so little that he would not lift a single finger to stop the destruction of his marriage.
I am speechless.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
What you have done is given your wife very unrealistic expectations of entitlement�that she should be cared for, while she abuses you. Neglect and abuse characterize many marriages based on unconditional love.
Have you done anything at all to break up her affair? Women do not respect men who are doormats and cuckolds and very often our feelings of love are based on the respect we feel.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
I have read Surviving an Affair and at least thought that I was doing plan A...be the best H that I can. I have not revealed it to my family or hers or co-workers as I was advised not to. I am fighting with every ounce that I can to save this even though it is one year. I care for her so much she is so confused about what she wants...she loves me but i know it sounds strange that she is over there. I want this to work out and I am only listening to my counselor who immediately had me read surviving an affair. What to do from here?
Well, the first thing you need to do is a nuclear exposure to absolutely everyone you can think of who might be able to assist you in putting an end to this A. Do NOT warn your wife that you are going to do this. Just expose, and expose widely and quickly. I don't know who advised you not to do this, but they are giving you very bad advice. Affairs thrive in secrecy, and exposure is the very best tool you have to end this.
Plan A is all about showing your wife what kind of H you can be, but right now, you are showing her that all you can be is a Doormat. Women do not like a doormat. You need to step up and fight for your marriage. Right now, you're basically handing the OM your wife on a silver platter. How is this going to show her that you care enough to fight for her and stand up for your marriage?
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
I have read Surviving an Affair and at least thought that I was doing plan A...be the best H that I can. I have not revealed it to my family or hers or co-workers as I was advised not to. I am fighting with every ounce that I can to save this even though it is one year. I care for her so much she is so confused about what she wants...she loves me but i know it sounds strange that she is over there. I want this to work out and I am only listening to my counselor who immediately had me read surviving an affair. What to do from here?
Ok. Take a deep breath. First off, you are getting bad advice from the counselor. I am sure you C means well, but she is not very familiar with Marriage Builders or how to save a marriage from an affair.
The affair should be exposed wide and far. The more people who know, the better. Expose to her parents, your parents, employer, the OM's friends and family [facebook] her grandparents, pastor and close friends. CAll the family members and tell them all about the affair. Tell them you love your wife and ask them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair. We have a sample letter you can send to OM's facebook friends. Copy all his friends into a WORD doc and send them a private email. [we have sample letters] Prioritize the targets with parents, family and then married friends.
Time your exposures to hit all on the same day so it has a tsunami ["nuclear ] effect. This will give you the maximum effect and prevent them from pre-empting you.
When that is done you DEMAND she end her affair. NOW. Sit her down and have this little talk with her. Tell her, I will NOT remain in a marriage with 3 people. Your continuing affair is disrespectful and hurtful to me and I insist you end all contact with OM NOW. If not, we are headed for divorce, baby.
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From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:
"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
And this means she quits the job, gives you her cell phone, her passwords, so you have absolute proof that contact has ended. Tell her in order to keep you interested in this marriage she will have to engage in a program of recovery.
Here is what Dr Harley says about exposure:
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The issue of exposure comes up when a betrayed spouse has first learned about the affair. Should it be exposed to others, or kept secret? I generally recommend exposure. When should it be exposed? I usually recommend that it be exposed immediately. To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family, friends, children, clergy, and especially, the lover�s spouse be informed. Exposure in the workplace depends on several factors.
<snip>
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
I have read Surviving an Affair and at least thought that I was doing plan A...be the best H that I can. I have not revealed it to my family or hers or co-workers as I was advised not to.
Affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping it a secret has only served to enable it. Dr Harley tells another man he is an "enabler" for not exposing his wife's affair. This man had let it go so long that the wife was moving in with the OM!
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"It's very difficult to overcome an affair when you become an enabler. In my judgement exposure would have ended your wife's affair."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
In defense of the counselor, she is just going by what she finds in the book and doesn't know about Dr Harley's teachings about exposure. He has written some newsletters, preached exposure on his radio show and is finally adding a chapter on exposure in HNHN. But anyone who hasn't read/heard those resources naturally wouldn't know this.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
After you do all this, go have a chat with that as*hat [leave your pistol in the car] and let him know you will fight for your marriage and will make his life holy hell if he doesn't stay away from your wife. EVry time time he tries to contact your wife, he should hear from you.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
I have not revealed it to my family or hers or co-workers as I was advised not to.
No, you refrained from revealing this affair because of some misguided sense of not "making it worse", or "not being the one to break up a (disfunctional) marriage. Well, let us here advise you to get your head out of your rectum, and realize that right now your ONLY weapon is exposure, EXPOSURE, EXPOSURE. If you're so committed to following advice, you might as well follow some from people that have been through EXACTLY what it is you're dealing with.
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I am fighting with every ounce that I can
No, you're not. Fighting for your marriage does not include making a hearty breakfast for her when she eventually comes home after SCREWING ANOTHER MAN for several days. Fighting for your marriage entails getting down and dirty and putting rules and structures in place to ruin her life if her choice is to continue banging this dude.
1. LAWYER UP. Consult with the best divorce lawyer in town (before she gets him) and start laying out what you know - dates, events, conversation. Listen to his advice!
2. GET A VOICE-ACTIVATED RECORDER AND CARRY IT WITH YOU EVERYWHERE! As soon as she realizes you intend to fight, she'll undoubtedly try to slam you with some [censored] domestic violence complaint.
3. PROTECT YOUR FINANCES! Grab all the assets(savings, checking) as you can. Establish private access to new accounts.
4. RALLY YOUR ALLIES! Parents, family, clergy, co-workers, whoever. Explain that your wife is conducting an extra-marital affair, that you intend to fight for your marriage, and would like their support.
5. PREPARE FOR HER RESPONSE. It will not be pretty. Remain calm, and continue repeating "Our marriage is important enough to me to do what must be done to get you to stop cheating on it, and start working on recovery, if possible."
Do these things if you really want to FIGHT. If you'd rather not fight, than continue to whine and prep yourself for continued abuse by the slut your wife has become.
now when I say see I mean she goes and spends the night with him. Our agreement is no sex and I am not happy about this at all but at least she is not sleeping with him anymore. I know I shouldn't believe her but I do feel that she is telling me the truth that they are not.
You have GOT to be joking!!! You REALLY think she is spending the night there and only playing Monopoly? You're not doing Plan A, guy, you're doing Plan Doormat.
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I know she cares but then why would she want to do this to me knowing that it is killing me.
courtvision30, I want you to read carefully. There hasn't been any sex in your marriage along with open mouth kissing for several months because your wife has been having sex with this other guy during this entire time. It may shock you even further to realize that she looks at having sex or physical contact with you as cheating on HIM! She does this to you because she can, and because she has absolutely no respect at all for you. She doesn't respect you because you don't even respect yourself enough to stand up for yourself and you are basically condoning what she is doing. You're congratulating yourself because you tell yourself they aren't having sex while she's laughing about how lame and gullible someone would have to be to ignore something so blatant happening right in front of his face.
As one of the other posters said, women don't respect men who just lay down and take it or who refuse to fight for their marriage.
The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
You're in a predicament. You've made it clear to your WW that you will allow her to screw another man, wipe off the spooge and then come home to you. YUCK! This needs to end NOW.
Who is OM? Is he married?
Your WW needs to know in no uncertain terms that her play dates with OM are over. NO MORE OVERNIGHTS. OMG, are you kidding me??????
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
now when I say see I mean she goes and spends the night with him. Our agreement is no sex and I am not happy about this at all but at least she is not sleeping with him anymore. I know I shouldn't believe her but I do feel that she is telling me the truth that they are not.
CV, feelings are not truth. That is silly to imagine she is not sleeping with this guy. She is having sex with him.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
Here is the message you need to send to that as*hat OM if you want to save your marriage:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
On the day I broke off my affair & confessed my affair to my wife, she told me I could still sleep in her bed, but also told me "Do it again & you're out on your [censored]." (As I say, it was the best Clint Eastwood, "Dirty Harry" imitation I've ever heard, and folks who've seen my wife on the MB Photo thread know she is about the farthest-looking thing from Clint Eastwood as you can get.) I respected her already, but I respected her all the more for how she stood her ground & made clear what she wouldn't stand for.
You, on the other hand? Instead of showing her some steel to respect, you're cooking & cleaning for her while she goes & boinks this other dude. Yougottabe friggin' kidding me, right?
Read about the "Love Bank" concept on this site. One thing about it is that if she's getting deposits made by someone else other than her husband, if she's getting her emotional needs met by him, then any good treatment you send toward her is going to mostly bounce off -- it's like trying to pour water into a glass that's already full.
You've first gotta end the affair IF you think this is worth saving & you really want to fight for it, if you want YOUR efforts to begin to make an impact. You've gotta expose it all over the place. If she has any shame about cheating on you, this might make some impact. (If she has no shame, then you'll get out with your pride intact while you're still young.) To paraphrase Karl Marx, "The only thing you have left to lose is your doormat-ness." Dude, quit being a wuss and FIGHT for your marriage if you want to give it a chance.
Me: FWH, 50 My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold DD23, DS19 EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09 Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009 Married 25 years & counting. Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband. "I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol "Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
wow a lot of this has been a huge eye opener! i must say i guess i wasn't prepared for this response but after reading this i think i may have become inspired. after this all happens and i assume she will be pissed but at this point does that even matter. Will this at least work to end the affair and if it doesn't what comes next?
wow a lot of this has been a huge eye opener! i must say i guess i wasn't prepared for this response but after reading this i think i may have become inspired. after this all happens and i assume she will be pissed but at this point does that even matter. Will this at least work to end the affair and if it doesn't what comes next?
She will be RED HOT AS A FIRECRACKER!! She will say "I was working on the marriage but now I am filing for divorce!!!" "how could you betray my trust??" "I want you out tonight!!!!" "We are finished!!!"
She will be the uber drama queen!! Just try not to LAUGH at the nonsense she spouts. If you feel a laugh coming on, excuse yourself becuase it is a lovebuster to laugh at your silly spouse. Tell her "I am sure sorry you are upset, dear, but I thought I should share the good news!! Would you like a potato chip?"
That is when you sit her down and have a little come to Jesus with her. Tell her the affair is over or she needs to move on outta here. Tell her you have a new standard and it requires she ends her affair TODAY and send scumbagboy a no contact letter and end her affair. Go back up and read my post on what to say to her.
And if she tries to throw you out, tell her "No thankee, Bob!"
Her anger will die down and as her shock wears off she will try to manipulate you into allowing her to keep the OM around for awhile. Tell her you ain't interested in that deal! You will go for the all or nothing deal, baby!! He goes or you go! Eliminating all contact with loser boy is NON NEGOTIABLE.
This plan is the most likely to end her affair which will make it possible for you to save your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
And you had better do this soon. She is young and is likely to get pregnant by the OM. Then you have a whole different level of problem on your hands.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
] effect. This will give you the maximum effect and prevent them from pre-empting you. 
She will be the uber drama queen!! Just try not to LAUGH at the nonsense she spouts. If you feel a laugh coming on, excuse yourself becuase it is a lovebuster to laugh at your silly spouse. Tell her "I am sure sorry you are upset, dear, but I thought I should share the good news!! Would you like a potato chip?" 