Years after disecting? To be honest? I had a great H and I was a [censored], selfish wife.

after ignoring my own feelings for months, I sent him an email (which I am thinking of deleting, since he is gone overnight and wont see it if I delete it). Lots of "I feel" and trying not to place blame on him for how I feel.

Everything he does affects me. I do not believe he feels this is true. Or at least, I hope he does not, because then it would be on purpose?

Gdar, I thought about your situation and just now came up with some ideas!

First let me say that IF you were selfish in your first marriage, you are no longer that way now. Do not beat yourself up about this. Lets look at this dynamic however. You said A MOUTHFULL HERE, GIRL!


Originally Posted By: Bubbles4UWhat became of the other husband? Why did you get divorced?

Years after disecting? To be honest? I had a great H and I was a [censored], selfish wife.


Hey you are not selfish now!!!!

Maybe we can start unlocking some of the keys as to why your current husband takes you for granted like he does and loses interest in family life with you guys. Try looking at your other marriage for these keys.

I would in fact, sit down with pen and paper and compare both men, thier traits, the dynamics of the marriage what worked, what did not work, why you were more attracted to this man than that other one, etc.

Lets start out with this.

The other husband let you have your freedom and he took up your slack. Maybe you were a little selfish. He maybe let you walk all over him. These dynamics were that he was a giver and you maybe were a taker. And many other dynamics were going on, you had power in the relationship and he was nice enough to RESPOND TO YOU and DO WHAT WAS NEEDED. The dynamics were that he responded to YOU. But YOU were not attracted to a man who responded to you since at the time you took that as weakness. As time went on, you became less and less attracted to him and so you cared less and less how selfish you were being to him. The more selfish you were, the more he gave and the more you took him for granted and were unattracted to him. You made the mistake of thinking a man who was GIVING and LOVING was WEAK and UNATTRACTIVE and had LOW SELF ESTEEM and WAS NOT MANLY. This husband cannot keep YOU in line and does not even try that hard to do so. Because he cannot keep you in line, you consider him even weaker as a person.

Now, to compare, here comes this husband. He is night and day different than the other guy. He is much more selfish than the other guy, does not pitch in and help with family things or domestic things, and THEREFORE SEEMS WORTH MORE TO YOU AND MORE MANLY TO YOU. He TAKES WHAT HE WANTS (even other women) and that is an attractive trait to you. You tend to appreciate him more due to him being an a-hole. And because he values himself highly since he is so selfish, etc. And he can keep you in line. The reason he can keep you in line though is that he is so intensly selfish and has so much independent behavior, that you are always chasing after him and YOU have to be the one to keep the family together. Since someone has to take care of the house and the kids and he does not lift a finger, YOU are STUCK doing it and therefore HE HAS KEPT YOU IN LINE. You cannot have freedom now like in the other marriage because this guy does not care to help out, help with the kids, nothing. Expecting he would help out a little like the other husband did you selfishly went and had a couple more kids. But he did not come through to help out at all so now you got 4 kids to manage which seals your fate as a domestic slave since someone has to care for them. You cannot even get away for a vacation or anything. It is like having 4 exotic pets and having to be feeding them all the time. This is your life now. Had you figured out that this guy was very different than your other husband, you maybe would not have had the other two children. This husband does not have the fatherly and domestic traits the other husband had. This one only has the sexy, uncaring, selfish, independent and immature traits to bring to your marriage and family.

You probably thought this new guy was fantastic and totally sexy when you first met him because of his confidence and self assurance. Mistaking your other husband's traits of caring, softness, and domestic support for weakness and lack of manliness, you now have a man who is the opposite of this. This opposite is now seemingly extremely attractive to you.

Comparing the daily Dynamics in your marriages:

First marriage

You did what you wanted
Your husband let you do what you wanted

You led
Your husband followed

You decided
Your husband responded

You wanted things
Your husband paid for them

You complained
Your husband tried to make you feel happy

You were not happy
Your husband worked harder for you

You make messes
Your husband cleaned them up

You were bored
Your husband let you amuse yourself away from him

Everything you did for yourself,
This husband adjusted for to help the family

You did what you wanted
Your husband did what what the family needed

You took all you could
Your husband sacrificed for the family

You had your fun
Your husband had to work to allow you this.

You went and amused yourself
Your husband picked up the slack.

You were the captain
He became the slave

You had a blast
Your husband had to care for the family

You were less attracted to your husband
Your husband was attracted to you.

The more he let you do what you wanted
The less you were attracted to him

The more he did for you
The less attracted you were to him

Everything you did affected your husband
But nothing he did affected you.



Now your current marriage dynamics:

He does what he wants, always
You let him do what he wants

He leads
You follow

He has all the power
You merely respond

He decides what he wants to do without regard for anyone else
You respond to him and put up with it.

He wants to do things without you
You stay home to care for the family so he can do this

He complains
You try to make him happy enough to stay home

He detaches
You attach

He runs
You chase and he runs more...

He is not that happy with you and the family
You try and work harder for him

He makes a mess
You clean it up

He acts immature
You put up with it

He gets his needs filled elsewhere (the job, texting and visiting the friends)
You get none of your needs filled

He can go out and party
You are stuck at home, a babysitter/housekeeper

He goes to an interesting fulfilling job
You stay home and you like this but it is not exciting

He is always bored
You let him amuse himself away from you and the kids

Everything he does just for himself except a paycheck to support you
YOU adjust yourself to help the family, since someone has to

He does what he wants to
You are stuck doing what the family needs

He enjoys his time away from you
You do not enjoy time away from him

He enjoys life without you
You do not want a life without him

He keeps trying to avoid being with the family
You keep trying to get more of him

He wants to give you LESS time
You want MORE of his time

He depends on you less except domestically
You depend on him more especially emotionally

He is not dependent
You are becoming dependent

He takes all that he can get away with
You have to now stay and sacrifice for the family

He has his fun apart from you and the family
You have to work very hard to allow him to do this because someone needs to be with the kids.

He gets to go amuse himself
You have to pick up the slack.

He has a blast
You are always stuck home doing domestic chores

You are attracted to your husband
He is becoming less and less attracted to you.

He has the power
You have none

He has the power because he cares less for you than you do for him
He cares the most...for himself therefore he has all the power.

He decides if he will leave you or have an affair.
You can do nothing about this.

He is the captain
You are the slave

He decides he will leave his clothing all around
You, the slave, pick it up

The more you do for him
The less he is attracted to you

The more boundaries you let him push and you let him get away with
The less he is attracted to you

Everything he does and does not do affects you
NOTHING you do or do not do affects him because he does not care!

You are under his thumb
He is totally free as if he were not married... except he provides the paycheck.

He is less and less attracted to his slave.
You are more and more unhappy...an unhappy, trapped slave.


(Let this sink in, add to it or change it, and then I will post another post for more thoughts.)

OK, if I were you I would look closely at what dynamics are going on. And what roles each of you are playing in the marriage. I would write out in detail what roles each of you play.

If one person plays one role, it forces the other partner to play another role, one which they may not want to play.

For example, he played the carefree single male role. You were attracted to this and promptly had two children. This resulted in him almost giving up his carefree ways and playing the "father" role. But he did not like to play the "father and good husband" role. He wanted to play the "carefree attractive man role" or the "player role". But now you got him stuck in the "father role" which he is bored playing.

Like any spoiled actor/diva, he squirrels out of that boring "father/husband" role every chance he gets. It kills him to be that bored. Therefore you feel him squirming away to friends homes, long hours at work so he does not have to go home, on the computer and texting all night so he does not have to really "be there".

This is what is making you miserable. You probably feel you have to let him do what he wants since deep inside you knew he did not want children or the responsibility of them. But since you had them anyway, now you are stuck...you may feel as if you are stuck letting him out once in a while or something worse will happen like he will meet a carefree woman and have an affair and then leave you for her. This is a very real possibility.

It is true he probably does not and never did like the "father/husband/family man" role like your other husband did. Maybe you expected that once you had a couple of his kids, he would start being more domestic or caring. But you found out that this man is not in any way going to give you your freedom or take care of the children himself like the other husband did. He will avoid that at all costs.

He will not take up the slack.

If there is work to do around the house, he will escape and avoid it at all costs. He will dump all the work on you and then appear as if he has done enough work at his job.

Oh...that JOB.....This job mainly feeds his (large) ego and he gets more out of it then he gives. In fact compared to the boring family life at home, he gets a lot more from the job. In fact most all his needs are filled by his busy/exciting job. The only need not filled by the job is sex (at least not that we know of) and he can get that at home from you.

His job may be busy but it gives HIM all the accolades, admiration of (mostly) women, and human interaction he needs and wants and a better more exciting version of it than you or the kids can give him. In fact, you and the kids are secondary to this job. He PREFERS the job. In many ways. He could easily live without you and the kids. Family life is not something he is (or ever has been) passionate about. He does not crave it or crave to be home with you enjoying the family and kids and you. (like the other husband did) He craves to BE AWAY.

Since you are clearly unhappy, he wants to be around you less and less and is less attracted to you. The more you adjust your expectations and YOUR LIFE to his life and what he wants, the less attracted he is to you. Being home with you and the kids is OK in small doses for him but it is more than he bargained for and he is always craving to find his next escape from that.

If he had to be home much, he would have to drink or numb the boredom and pain he feels at being stuck being a father and having to communicate daily with a wife. Where the other husband loved to be around you and the kids, this husband does not enjoy being around you and the kids. This is why you feel he is mostly "not there" when he is home.

He is gone all day at his job, then he is "not there" when he is at home so he is basically abandoning you emotionally and physically. Basically it is as if he LEFT YOU but he is still around!!!! How awful and confusing that must feel for you! You might think you are going crazy but really...it is true that he does not want to be there, avoids interacting with the family as much as he can avoid it, stays at work late and buries himself in work to avoid the family and get some excitement and admiration there, has his friends he clings to to avoid the wife/family, rejects you when you ask for anything or nag him so that you will back off, has his flirting and affairs which you can do nothing about and he does not think twice about doing this.

He must have some morals and values since he is still there providing for you and the kids. Something must keep him doing the right thing even though he is bored with that father role.

He needs you now..more than ever...because you provide care for his children and keep the house up. Otherwise he would have to hire help. This saves money and keeps the home front going.

If he did not have the children to care for the marriage dynamics would be very different. He might be excited to come home. You might be more interesting since you would be able to have time to develop your own interests apart from raising kids. Yet this is who he sees every day at his job, women raising thier children. So he does get involved in this at the job. Which might be more fun than raising his own children.

I wonder how much this husband participates in the day to day raising of your kids. I feel maybe you do all of this.

SOLUTIONS?:

Are there solutions???!! Yes, I feel there is a lot you can do. You are limited by the 4 kids but I bet there are creative things you can do to make the marriage better and be happier yourself.

Can you see why you are unhappy? I can!

And I think once you become aware of how this husband differs from your other husband, write out all the roles you played in both marriages and the roles the men played.

Then you can start to become aware of your old marriage dynamics and compare them with this marriage's dynamics and you will come up with many many solutions.

(Feel free to share and allow us to help you find solutions!)

I believe once you understand the dynamics, the roles you both play, and compare both marriages you can start to discover what is interesting and exciting to you and to your husband.

Once you find out what is actually happening in your marriage now (the current dynamics) you can shift and change these (currenly bad) dynamics in creative ways to not only bring back the love in your marriage but to make it satisfying for both of you to be there in the marriage.

You will have to go deep and hammer this all out and then write out about 10 things you want to change in the way you relate to him. For example you can change your ROLES and he may have to or want to change and adjust too. That type of thing.

You can carefully examine what is going on... like I did... except with more detail, accuracy and in more depth. Then you can carefully examine your own role in all of it and ask yourself what you want to change about your role.

Also the advantage you have is that you can now start to see, after two marriages, what you want in a man, what you want in a marriage, and what you want for YOUR LIFE apart from a man or a marriage. If you do not know this right now, you will learn it thru this examination process you are going to do.

My friend, I predict that 2011 is going to be an exciting, new, great learning and changing year for you!!!!!

Keep on with this awareness and do not give up here!!!!

I think there is enough good in your husband to make a good marriage. You just have to do away with some old patterns, old roles, old ways of communicating and find out how to make the marriage exciting and fulfilling for both.

Also there is something that tells me this husband is an adreneline junkie. That is where they thrive on stress and admiration. They prefer workaholicism rather then rest. They want to push limits of things rather than sit back. They take action rather than waiting. They hate to be bored above all. This is what he would get out of work, that passion, that excitement, everything. And getting drunk with his buddies.

*At home there is none of that excitement he likes...only the boring (maybe to him) droning stress of children's constant noise, thier demanding voices, their messes, your emotional need for him to be "present", and the TV.*

I dont know the answers for you yet... without more feedback from you and more learning by you. But if people here can help we will try!

I am curious if any of this resonates with you!

Another thing to think about is the Patterns we develop in marriage. I would look at all your patterns, how they developed, how they are maintained, and when they first started and who led the development of a pattern.

Lets look at just one pattern of behavior in your marriage for an example. I will fill in some fake information to illustrate for you how to do this on many other patterns so you can write all these out for yourself.

PATTERN: Your husband comes home from work and leaves his stuff scattered around and his clothing on the bedroom floor.

WHEN PATTERN ORIGIONATED: During the first month of living together.

WHO STARTED THIS PATTERN: Husband did

HOW DOES THIS PATTERN GET MAINTAINED: Wife continues picking up clothing, she puts sticky notes out to urge him to pick up his own clothing, she lets it pile up three feet deep, she has asked him to pick them up, she has put baskets out in the living room for him to deposit his junk, etc.

IS IT A GOOD PATTERN OR ONE TO CHANGE? Bad, needs to change

WHAT ARE THE RESULTS OF THIS BAD PATTERN: Wife feels disrespected and uncared for and her needs ignored and either has to live in filth, or take on the role of slave to clean after her adult male husband.

HOW TO CHANGE THIS bad PATTERN to a better one: _____ and _____ and if ____happens, then try_______. But do not do_____anymore!

DOES THIS PATTERN HAVE DEEPER ROOTS?: Yes, it is maintained due to a general feeling of disrespect from the husband to the wife in the marriage. This lack of caring and respect of the spouse carries on throughout thier marriage causing other issues and independent behavior. That in itself needs to change,, it is another bad pattern, the disrespect. The deeper pattern of disrespect may have to change before the "picking up after himself" pattern can change. OR, maybe both patterns will change if the "picking up after himself" pattern is changed! If the wife respects herself and demands respect, things can change.

There are good patterns in marriage as well as bad patterns. Looking at how these patterns came to be is the first step at changing some of the bad patterns around to make for a better marriage. Sometimes you can change a pattern, even though you cannot change a spouse. It is like a little miracle.

Thinking about this clothing thing, I am wondering if you need to ask your husband for respect for you. Tell him that it is not just the clothing on the floor that bothers you but the lack of respect and love he shows you as your husband each time he leaves something out or piles clothing on the floor.

See if you can go directly to the DEEPER ISSUE (pattern) which is lack of respect for you. Perhaps if you put it this way he will hear you and understand. Perhaps he disrespected all women this way, even his own mother. Really it hurts you that he shows his lack of respect for you by piling his clothing up, leaving his stuff all around, ignoring your pleas to pick up after himself, and ignoring any reminders to pick up his stuff.

I would hit that deeper issue hard. I think the foundation of your marriage is lack of respect possibly coming from him to you....which you two will have to work on.

This is just ONE issue, but there may be many more you can work on. I know you can change at least some of the dynamics and patterns and roles in your marriage. You can hash these all out on paper. At least then, you will feel a bit better and be able to see what you have and what you want to try and change of the marital dynamics and patterns you possibly fell into.

One PATTERN you fell into was you immediately began having children with your new man (current husband). This did not take into consideration if your husband wanted to be a father, if he was domestically inclined, if he loved being around kids all the time, etc. You blindly went about creating children not considering the future, who would care for them, who would do this, who would raise them, who would teach them, who would do everything with them, how much he wanted to be around them, etc. There were probably many reasons you wanted to have kids for this new man. Maybe you even thought kids would settle him down and he would be more tied to you or more available to you emotionally! I do not know...

Having the two kids right away with this man...you simply did your PATTERN here like in your first marriage.... only this husband was not familiar with being fatherly or a family man like the first husband. So this having these children was something YOU wanted to do based on YOUR PATTERNS that you liked doing. You expected him to change to accomodate the growing family and he did not change.

What was this PATTERN about, you having these kids?

What is having children to you?:

A sense of accomplishment
Something you knew you could do well
Creating beautiful beings
Loving being around them 24/7
Children with your new man was an act of love
"He will love me for it..."
"I can sacrifice in this way because then we will have a family"
"He is not bonded to my other kids but he will be with these kids that are his"
"I think he will be a good father"
"I will make him into the father he should be by bearing these children"
"He has to be thier father, it will mature him"
"Once he sees these kids of his, he will love me forever"
"If I have his kids, he will never leave me"

I dont know what else or what other reasons you had for having kids, many women tell me it is an inborn instinct, one that I either was not born with or had squelched by my abusive childhood....so I understand very little of the desire to have them...and the huge lifetime sacrifice that parents make to bear children...but they are cute though!


(I could be wrong about this and about everything, just discard what you want to here, I am only human)

Wow, Bubbles. It has been more than 2 years and I just came back for the first time and just read your posts. I need to digest. I cannot believe it has been TWO years! I really do not feel like it has been that long.

Here I am, finding myself much in the same situation/place I was before. 2 years of some incredible highs and lots of lows (not near as devastating as 4 years ago, however)!

I am back in Withdrawal again. He is, too. Funny that this post was originally titled "disappointed on Mothers Day", and really, this post could have the same name, 2 years later. Last year I made my own Mother's Day by taking my DDs and my mom out of town for some shopping and lunch. There was no card or gift from my H, though after the Mothers Day I had in this original post, I explained to him how much this days means to me. I recently had to have the exact same conversation with him. Again this year, I received no card, no gift, not even the WORDS "Happy Mothers Day" came from his face. He slept in, not me (he sleeps in each weekend) and then he retreated to the yard for the day. I was bending over picking up his dirty laundry off the floor and tweaked my neck pretty bad, I could not move it for several hours and it was really painful. He set up a reclining lawn chair in the yard and I watched him and my DS pull weeds (we have a large yard). He seemed annoyed that I hurt my neck, and even made comments later about how it was rather "convenient" that I was deemed injured on Mothers Day (insinuating I made it up to not help in the yard). I spent the day hurt both emotionally and physically.

I told him how I felt again, receiving no appreciation on a day that means a lot to me, as a mother of 4 kids. He didn't respond. A few years ago I stopped purchasing Mothers Day cards or gifts for his mom, because he would always complain about the card being too sappy and "fake", so I told him he should take care of it. He never got her gifts before he met me, either (a sign now that I look back on it). He DID get her a card this year (though not for me), the DAY of the holiday when he ran to the store. He got her a card "From Your Son". When I saw him signing it, I asked to sign it and he said "oh, well I just signed it". He said the card was all they had left.

His mom and dad took our DD (she is 6) to Disneyworld for a week, and returned on Mothers Day. Actually, they were supposed to return the day before, on our DS's 4th birthday, but their flight was canceled. Our daughter got off the plane exhausted and woke up the next morning sick. So did myself and DS. It has been a solid week now, we are getting over the flu. I was up 4 nights in a row caring for sick kids, being sick myself. H had a lot going on at work, like usual, but said he would come home if need be. He did go with me a week ago to take DS to the hospital because his fever reached 105. That is a pretty good indicator of how sick he was. I have spent this last week solid, caring for sick kids, wiping endless runny noses and runny bums, dispensing copious amounts of medications and breathing treatments, all day, 4 nights. I am working on very little sleep. My H did not wipe a single nose or bum, nor dispensed a single medication through any of this, and slept in both days this weekend, as well. He did come home early Friday and made homemade chicken noodle soup that was delicious. Friday was one of my worst days, and despite my efforts to stay awake, I feel asleep with my DS for almost 2 hours. Half way through that, my H text me from the yard asking me to take the soup off the burner (I didnt respond to the text). He knew I was sleeping, and that I had spent FOUR straight nights up with sick kids. I woke up later to loud music on our beck deck, right outside of our bedroom door. I text him to please turn it down, but he said he was enjoying it with our DD. After he made the soup, he spent the rest of the time working in the yard, then hanging out on the back deck (which he does any time it is nice outside - he listens to music, drinks a beer and texts his friends).

The rest of the weekend was the same. He slept in while I got up with the kids, then he went straight to the yard for the day, coming up to make dinner. I thanked him for making dinner each time, because I really do appreciate it. I asked him Saturday evening if I could please sleep in on Sunday, and he did not respond (that is his way of saying no without actually saying it). He told me yesterday that I got to take a nap on Friday, and that he worked really hard at work and then in the yard, so he should be able to sleep in.

What I could have used this weekend besides a weed-free yard was SOME HELP with the kids. It is hard caring for 2 sick kids even when are NOT sick, which I am!

He did get up at 12:30 Thursday evening to pick my DS up from school from a track meet that was 3 hours away. My ex husband was supposed to pick him up, but overslept and the coach called us saying that he was a no show (ex husband issues abound the past few months, as well). Without skipping a beat, he hustled out of bed and ran to get him. He has a good relationship with my oldest (now 15), much better than my ex has with his own son.

My H has really been a great step-dad to my older two kids (15 and 14). He relates to this age really well, as he was a high school administrator for 7 years before he took over a middle school. I do let him discipline the kids, and sometimes we do have issues, but we always work them out. He thinks I am a pushover, and I think he is unrealistic at times, but the kids respond well and the 4 of us have a great dynamic as a blended family. But the two kids that we have together, he just does not spend ANY time with. He is still not present when he is home. He is either working or texting friends, just as it always has been.

The part of MB that does not work for my H is POJA. From what he has read about it with all of our MB books, is that it is impossible and not realistic. He simply is not interested.

I know I need to start these principals all over again (actually, I have kept them up, though not consistently enough, until recently). I am just tired of always being the one who is trying. I am drained. My needs are NOT anywhere near being met, and the past 2 weeks have been so awful, I honestly feel like he is doing it on purpose.

Who leaves their sick wife to care for 2 sick kids by herself and just goes to the yard? That boggles my mind, how far that is from how it should be.

I am tired of being back to square one, but here we are again.

I emailed him and asked if he would be willing to try the online program (I cannot afford $200 sessions), so I hope he is open to it. He always tells me he will try harder, do more, but its just lip service.

To top it off, the reason we are in such a dark place right now is because of his promotion coming up the day the school year ends. He was offered a principalship at a large high school that needs a complete overhaul, and he turned it down. I was shocked, I really thought he would take it. It means even LESS time he will be home than it already is, and that is certain marital death. He told me he wants more time with us, not less, so he told them district his family must come first, so he declined. Well, the district placed him anyway. He starts July 1st, so he gets a whopping 2 weeks vacation instead of 5. We HAD plans this summer.

The only plus I see with this new job is the pay - meaning we will NEED and be able to afford those calls to SH.

Well, he responded to me about the counseling with:


That is fine. If you really want to help you can remove our ex from our lives. I was bent all weekend and I'm not going to get over it. I attacked the yard just to get my aggression out. Taking the high road all the time is tough and I'm trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I have a million and one things on my plate right now and I'm angry, beyond angry that your ex and his [censored] are a part of my life. Honestly, I had misplaced anger at you all weekend because he has compromised my life and my happiness. He has compromised the kids happiness. I didn't care you wanted to sleep in, I wanted to escape. I was afraid if I saw him, I wouldn't be able to hold in what I want to say.

I understand that you have needs and I'm sorry that I have not appropriately addressed them.

I feel trapped. I feel hopeless. I feel angry. I feel like bad husband and father.


So... I am digesting that right now.

What is the issue with your ex, and how have you tried to address it?

Oh, CWMI. He is such a pain, and a huge drain on this family.

He travels 80% of the time. The other 14% he says he is traveling for work, he is lying and flies into the city his girlfriend lives in, 2 hours North. He has the kids 6% of the time, and it is never, ever a set schedule. He regularly cancels picking the kids up last minute. Sometimes we get a days notice, sometimes he texts me that his flight was canceled an HOUR after he was supposed to have been here to get them. The past 3 months have been awful - he got back together with the girlfriend up north. They were together for a few years, and he was dragging the kids to her apartment (where they slept on the floor) every single weekend he had them. Once they split up, he tried for about 1 month to repair his failing relationship with our kids (they are very hurt and have huge resentment towards him for never making them a priority). Then he got a new girlfriend - one he knew and the kids had a great relationship with her kids (they were neighbors). Their relationship was of and on, always full of drama and the kids had a front row. They lasted the last year and a half, and he dumped her to get back together with the one up North. The kids REFUSE to go with him now, if he goes up to see her. Our 15 yr old DS has stayed overnight three times since October because he refuses to be a part of it. Our 14 DD is following suit. So, since the kids refuse to go with him to see her, he started lying and we have caught him three times in the past two months. He claimed he was working, the kids found out he was 2 hours away with his girlfriend.

My husband is VERY upset right because last Thursday, after working a 14 hour day, we got that call from the track coach that the ex husband was a no-show to pick up our son at 12:30 a.m.

We have tried various things over the years to address the ex. We go through some good stretches, but as the years have gone by and the kids are getting older, he has checked out quite a bit. He is irritable, many times irrational, emotional, etc... we have always dealt with it the best we could because we do not want our kids seeing constant upheaval between us. We didnt want to be like every other divorced couple using the kids as pawns. We have done a pretty good job up until this past year once the kids figured out their dad is basically a jerk (he was not when we were married).

My H and my ex have always got along well. We invite him over when we have gatherings, and we are very close with my ex's parents. They actually are more involved then he is. They are incredibly supportive of H and I, and they are increasingly more and more frustrated with my ex and his lack of priorities and lying. He has a history of lying - which creates huge issues.

Sounds like you need to plan B your ex. Can you do that? The kids are old enough to say they don't want to see him, and I would support them in that. You certainly don't need to know anything about his personal life, remove your family from the drama!

Yes. We have have never done anything with lawyers or through the state (for child support), but I am preparing right now to do a "revisit" with the state to review the support and have it adjusted (he pays less than he should, especially since he is mostly gone). That is the start of my Plan B. I am grateful we only have a few more years to deal with this, because it actually did go well for a number of years.

H apologized for taking his anger about my ex on me. I understand that frustration, of course. I do not believe his actions this past weekend were fair to the kids or I, but I DO understand how upset he was.

You can start your Plan B with your ex immediately with an IM.
Do you have an IM? IM Training School

No, I do not have an IM. The experience that my friends have gone through using them here in our state make them meet in a conference room and air their grievances on both sides. If I go through the state for a review, it is done on the phone.

H has since apologized for the last couple of weekends, and I accepted his apology. We were doing pretty well since the last time I was here, two years ago, until the last couple of months. It seems everyone is on edge. I am not sure what is in the water right now.

An IM is someone you pick to "filter" messages between you and your ex. It's usually done through email?

Why would you need to go through the courts for that? It would only be pertinent information about the kids.

You're divorced why do you need any contact with him? How old are your kids?

Have you asked your H? Do you follow O&H or PORH?

The kids are now 14 and 15. He and I now rarely communicate unless he is texting to say he will be late to pick up the kids, or not be there to pick them up at all. The last time we did have communication is when he failed to pick our son up at midnight from a sporting event, and I got a call from the coach saying our son was still waiting for a ride. My ex continued to call me back ( I called him to see if he was on his way, but he did not answer), but I did not pick up. He text me later that he overslept and wanted to come to my house to pick him up at 1 in the morning on a school night. I replied with an obvious no. We have not spoken since.

We used to communicate freely, and we (H and I) had a friendly relationship with him until the last handful of months when he has not been picking the kids up on time, or at all. Then it leaves us scrambling to change whatever plans we have made because the dynamic has changed.