She is failing. She is failing to do the POUA, and she is failing to eliminate selfish demands and disrespectful judgments.


I don't know what to do about that. The lovebusters she sends me now are lists of things she wanted me to do that I did not do. She labels those disrespectful judgments, for the most part.

It's the same kind of "it bothers me that you didn't do what I wanted" statements that she told me where a selfish demand coming from me, and that Dr. Harley told me where an attempt to guilt her into doing what I wanted.

And even back when I was doing all these things, she still wasn't giving the POUA a try.

For our lessons right now we're supposed to be sending each other a list of selfish demands and disrespectful judgments that the other has made each week. Here is her most recent list:


Okay, fire away. Let me know how these explain the past 8 weeks.

���I agree with that and am very committed to that. I think I'm doing a good job of that, actually, though I'm not sure if Prisca would agree.���

Then it sounds like you have work to do�..

���I think it would work if we followed the policy of undivided attention.���

Then it sounds like you have work to do�.. Because she doesn�t feel like having that time together. What is it that is within your power to do to change that?

���That doesn't seem to be a principle I can follow. If you've got a practical way I can become immune to this issue, I'm willing to listen.���

Practical advice, sure�.. While I would love for my wife to communicate in a different way sometimes I am also aware of how she communicates, ESPECIALLY, when I�m not on top of my game. I�ve come to find out that the way my wife communicates relates directly to her love bank level. When it�s full, we got no problems. When it�s low, she tends to be short, demanding, disrespectful blah blah blah. So I�m left with a choice, pull out the score card and start making marks against her or fill her bank to the brim. The difference between you and I right now though is I�m operating from a full love bank and your not. Neither of you seem willing to break the cycle. In my case, I had to be the one to break the cycle.

���I'm not interested in listening to demands, disrespect, or anger. I don't believe it will be good for our marriage if I tolerate it.���

So are you saying that your wife is not safe venting with you?


���DJ - When I tried to tell him about an annoying habit of his, he rejected me, told me it wasn't an annoying habit. He told me I wasn't really annoyed, but rather, I was making a demand.���

OUCH, so your perfect and she doesn�t have a valid thought�. OUCH.

���Demand - Locked himself in our bedroom all day and left the care of the children and all the chores to me���

WOW�. SERIOUSLY�.. DUDE, there just aren�t words. Dealing with 6 is stressful enough with a break. SHE NEEDS A BREAK. Lock her in the room and you take the kids for a day if you want to throw a fit, that way you still make some deposit.

���Dishonesty/Demand - Told me he wasn't going to wash dishes for me (which he has been saying for weeks that he would do) and left me to do it.���

Very valid.

���Demand/DJ - Locked himself in our bedroom again. I told him I was leaving, and left. He badgered me by text messages to come back home.���

I would have left and not returned�. That�s childish�.

���My mom went to the ER, and when I told him, he barely acknowledged me. He wasn't there for me while I was sic! k with worry.���

So compassion needs some work, I can relate�.

���Left for work wi! thout a kiss goodbye, or even just a goodbye. ���

When I do that, it�s intention inflict of harm�.. Bad boy�..




So Markos, sounds like you have a lot of work to do. But rather than work on it, you seem to want to blame her for the UA time that you haven�t made safe for her and the POJA which you haven�t made safe for her. I�d spend A LOT of time with the MIRROR and absolutely no time at the window. LOOK at you. You haven�t cleaned your side of the street. It�s messy as all get out�.. So get to cleaning�..

But it appears that Prisca is not going to give the POUA a try until I first provide her with happiness.

You go first. Explain your actions on Saturday 4th and Sunday 5th.

She won't do it until I provide her with happiness. That's not within my power.


I have broken the cycle a number of times this year resulting in a full love bank for her and a diminishing love bank for me.


She is welcome to say whatever she wants, but I will not tolerate demands, disrespect, or anger.


Keep in mind you are seeing her description.

What happened was she disguised a demand as being "honest" with me.

Just the exact same as I did with her several months ago when I told her I was bothered that she didn't do something she said she was going to do.

Turns out I don't like it when she does it to me, either.


She could have sat down and taken one. I didn't demand that she do any chores. Those were things she wanted done.

She regularly heads off to take breaks without consulting me.

When do I get a break, exactly? The schedule I mentioned above didn't include any Markos time. I'm a full time caregiver.

I don't want me time, though, I want POUA time.


It beats leaving the house entirely.

By the way, when she is being demanding and angry, do I have any right to go protect myself?


Absolutely not, from what I've been learning all year. I've been learning that when she says she's going to do something, if she later has a reason not to do it, then that reason is valid.


Okay, so what I did was enough to justify her leaving and not returning ... so does that mean I could have done the same thing?


But it's not what happened.


If what you are saying is true, then she has done far, far more to inflict harm.

She doesn't kiss me goodbye, nor does she kiss me hello when I return. If this means it's an intent to inflict harm, then she is harming me far more by what she's not doing.

This works both ways, Bill.


I think you need to look closer and see the list of demands here.

I can do all this stuff and she still won't keep POUA.

Neither Kim or Dr Harley agree with you on that.

On Saturday 4th and Sunday 5th, I quit doing everything Prisca wanted.

I started out to sacrifice my day washing dishes all day while she and the kids went to do something fun.

Then I decided I couldn't do that any more.

Here's the badgering by text messages:

me: Please come back.
her: Why
me: Because I don't want you to go. Where are you? When will you be back?
her: I don't know
her: That's not a very compeling reason
me: Where are you in case I need to get ahold of you?
her: You have my number
me: Will you please bring the Suburban back in case I need to take the kids somewhere?
her: Where
me: Dinner, church, the grocery store, to pick up Joseph, the doctor, to evacuate in case of fire, who knows?
her: I need to be alone
me: Okay. Can you please bring the Suburban back and take my car, so we can use the Suburban if I need to take the children anywhere?
her: I'm not driving your car anywhere
me: You can be alone in our bedroom until bedtime if you like.
her: No thanks

I did some more reviewing ... December 3 she was angry at me because of the disputed love buster, where she says she was being honest with me about an annoying habit, and I say she was engaging in a demand that I didn't have the right to say "no" to.

She engaged in a series of DJs after that.

December 4th I sort of lost my will.

I do think passively going and being by myself when I was that hurt was a much better choice than having an angry outburst. It was surely not the best thing that I could have done. But doing nothing is much safer than an angry outburst. And staying in the house is much preferable to leaving it.

Personally I think you should have washed the dishes (how could this take ALL day?) and then took all the kids except newborn to the park for a couple of hours.

Man, you two have your hands full. I can't help but think your life is so high stress right now that you need to treat it like a crisis. Less worry about your marriage and more worrying about how to get through each day without one of you going insane.

Probably not very marriage builderish though. So ignore me. But I do have a friend who had 2 babies under 2 1/2 at one point (a set of twins) and they operated on crisis mentality for about 18 months. The kids are 5 1/2 and 8 now. The couple has a great marriage.

I have 4 kids, and would have flown over the moon in sheer appreciation if my H ever left to take the kids to the park so I could have some time. Smiling, I understand what you are saying, and really - it is rather true. Crisis mode for a while. That is exactly how it was when a newborn was in the house. Just surviving. Unfortunately, my H went into crisis mode and left it all to me.

That being said, you are both here, both trying to figure it out with 6 kids in tow. That should be commended.

Get the vasectomy already!

For whom? We advise people all the time to leave the house when their spouse is LBing. Can you see it is a huge DJ and very condescending for you to declare that you locking yourself in a room to avoid her LBs is preferable to Prisca leaving home to avoid your LBs?

And for gosh sake, stop focusing on her LBs and start telling us what you are going to do about YOUR LBs and your failure to meet her ENs. Stop trying to justify your failures based on her alleged failures. That is my gig and I resent anyone here butting in on my territory.

As many here have pointed out, you guys have 6 young children. Your kids are going to run your wife ragged for several more years. That is for sure. The question is whether their parents will have any love left for one another when the grueling ordeal begins to moderate. That is largely up to you. You are going to have to bust your butt every minute you are home to provide your wife some free time to relax. If you don't give her time to decompress, you aren't going to enjoy UA time if she is even willing to spend any with you.

As others have said, figure out what household chores can be eliminated. For the rest, start dragooning the children. And anyone else in the family who is willing to lend a helping hand. Start the assembly line. Here is what we do at age 6, 5 and 4. Every year the kids advance to the next step on the ladder, with more responsibility. Otherwise when they get to be teenagers you are going to hate their guts for having been leeches for 12+ years while you and Prisca killed yourselves and your love for one another.

SAYING nothing is much safer than an angry outburst. However, you do not need to abandon your share of the chores in order not to have an angry outburst.

You should never have abandoned the children. They need you, and they are your responsibility as much as they are their mother's. When you lock yourself in your room and cut yourself off from them, you are hurting them.

I can see why you would not want to do things to make your wife happy when she has just had an outburst at you. I can see not interacting with her until you calm down and will not LB. However, you should be doing some proportion of the chores associated with six kids at the weekend, even when there has been a fight. You cannot see chores that you must share as doing your wife a favour, and neither can you treat interacting with your kids and keeping them safe as a favour.

My H does this when we fight (rarely, now) and it makes me lose respect for him.

100% agree here. It seems like you are punishing her by deliberately leaving chores to her, not doing your portion, just to piss her off. Mad or not, she is not your maid. I don't want to do the dishes, either - but no way am I going to leave them in the sink to stink up the house as punishment because my H didn't so something I wanted him to do. If that happened, my sink would always be piled high. How is that good for anyone?

When our marriage is good, though, our marriage is what gives us the strength and the power to get through each day.

That's not what I was told back at the beginning of my thread.


It might be, but I didn't intend it as comparison of me to her, I intended it as comparison of myself now to myself when I first got here.

UA time is free time to relax, if we're doing it properly. It's supposed to be your escape together.

I need to know what I need to do differently to make it something she looks forward to.

Tried that approach for six months, and I'm done with it.