Seriously,
I feel your pain in your words. I too think I need to know what's going on in their heads. No way to ever know, I don't even think THEY know what's going on. Think back to when you were a kid. Didn't your parents ever say to you: "Seriously, what were you thinking?" when you did something utterly dumb? And of course, at the time, you were justified in your head thinking what you did was NOT dumb. I think that's the way WS think. Like a puberty struck teen.

Its sad but true, WS lack the emotional maturity for an adult relationship.

You will have those days when you just wanna say: "ENOUGH! Its too much, I can't stand anything about him, let him be someone elses worry. Have a nice life!" I'm having one of those days today myself

But, you have to ask yourself do you beleive in the sanctity of marriage or the devistation of divorce?

Venting on MB helps, were all here to help one another.

Wow -- seriously. I ditto MUCH of what you just wrote. So many unanswered questions,...wanting SO much to know why, why, why?! It's such a hard pill to swallow. It's like you just HAVE to have something to give you understanding of it. How could this much pain and suffering,...possible ruin of your family,...your foundation(s) all just be the result of a simple act of meaningless weakness? Ugh! How can you trust without knowing the why, or ever feel safe even if you DO know the why,....poor boundaries, selfishness, pursuit of sexual or emotional ego gain? It only makes it that much harder to accept.

Thank you, GroveOil, for your insight as a FWH. Though, it still doesn't give me comfort (still seeing myself utterly, and unabashedly, used, unappreciated,...viewed as chopped liver to him compared to what he felt he gained by having his needy, ego-stoking, hussy), your thoughts about the experiences (which appear very similar to how my H explains it) meant a lot to me.

I second Daisy's thank you to GraveOil. Your insight helps.

I'm confused. Did he tell her it was over? Has he told her he wants no contact with her?

If I were you I would text her back and tell her to leave your husband and the father of your children the he77 alone.

How did they meet?

Has a NC letter been sent? He needs to change his phone # and any other way that she may be able to contact him such as email, blocking her on FB etc.

This is so important as any type of contact she makes is going to set you guys back.

(((seriously)))

Thanks for being there all of you. Thanks for listening and tolerating my venting.

Can I just tell you how much I hate being "here"? Did I ask to be in a ridiculous, immature "love" triangle? No.

To answer your question, they met on a flight. H: rich, handsome, American in business class, OW: young, foreign stewardess.

Cliche.

(So cliche in fact that one of his coworkers fell for a Russian stewardess last year and decided to leave his wife of 20 years (but she got him back)).


@Maritalbliss, I would loooooooooove to call her up and tell her to leave us all alone; actually I'd prefer to do it in person... but that's wishful thinking, and I might hurt my fist. Anyway the damage is done.

So, on D-Day he called her and said it was over. She called and then texted, and then it dropped off. H doesn't answer her calls, has blocked her on FB.

I hadn't found MB yet, so I hadn't thought about an NC letter. I told him if he ever contacts her or speaks to her again, it was over. So as far as I know, he hasn't.

H tells me when she calls, and if she texts what is says.

I sent her a looooooong letter on FB, first asking her for her side of the story (since I didn't believe him, and I thought she was dumb enough to answer), and telling her about my sh^&*& childhood, and all that H had done to convince me to walk down the aisle, and how we'd waiting for each other, and how she'd F&*^*& my life and my children's lives, and that I was leaving him. Etc. Etc. Just so she could feel a smidge of guilt.

(I also included what he was losing. Our family now loses his lucrative salary, health insurance, he loses any future offers from the company, being allowed to serve in the church, his reputation, etc.)

Her answer a blithe, "I never meant to hurt you," type of half-assed, two-sentence apology. Whatever. Don't care much about that. Blocked her myself.

Anyway, she's not sorry enough to leave my H alone.

I do wonder how she knows his whereabouts... she does work for the airline (p.s How is it that she loses nothing?). They know a lot of people in common, I guess she has her spies somewhere.

He can change his phone number in about a week, but has to keep it for work until then.

He is now on the plane away from where she lives. He is traveling with a male coworker.

The truth is, I really don't care about keeping her from him, or keeping them apart. I'm not the police. He has his agency.

This is not who I am. If he wants to be with her, go on ahead. (It would've been nice to know I was in an open marriage this last year, I met a really handsome professional soccer player .

But I want a man to be with me by choice.

He made his choice.

I had ZERO idea what was going on, and even now that I ask for some kind of evidence, all he can offer me is phone records.

It seems pointless to be a detective, even though I have the impulse.

I kind of wish she would just show up and tempt him... just so we all could see what he's made of. He never passed up an opportunity to be with her when it was on the DL.

I guess it's not so hot when it's not secret.

It almost seemed like he used me as a means to get out of it.

I'd rather have him fall now so I can move on with my life. I don't want to be here 5, 10, 15 years from now. Then I will REALLY be kicking myself. (Even though I am kicking myself now).

So I guess after all this venting, you're telling me a NC letter needs to be sent, eh? Gotcha. Will do.

Thanks my friends.

There is a NC letter in SAA that is to be written by your H and sent via certified mail by both of you (meaning put into the mail by both of you, signed only by him). The sooner you can do this the better. If you don't have SAA, let us know and we will post it for you. And if you aren't going to use the form, pls share what your H has written before it is sent.

Besides the phone, is there any other way that she HAS contacted him, like email? If so, those avenues of communication need to be changed as well.

I am sorry you are going through this. The first few months after dday are pretty awful and any further contact is just going to make it worse. I truly hope your H gets this...if he is delaying changing his # by a week, I fear he doesn't. Hang in there...

Unless you and WH are willing to both follow the recovery steps posted on MB, and FOLLOW THEM EXACTLY, you WILL find yourself in the same boat 2, 3, 4 years down the road.

My WH had an A 3 years ago, came back and really wasn't interested in the MB steps. I was just so happy to have him back that I slacked.

He is now in A #2 and in waaay deeper with OW #2 now. Moving on and in with her.

Listen and follow. NC letter is next step.

Good luck, Mitzie

seriously, we already know what he is made of. We know that in certain conditions he is vulnerable to an affair. The solution is to remove those conditions. In his case, those conditions are traveling away from his spouse and allowing people of the opposite sex to meet his needs. He was probably having discussions about his private life with this woman, which is a big no - no. People think it "can never happen to me, I am not that kind of person." And they are usually the first ones to have an affair because they have no proper boundaries around people of the opposite sex.

The solution is not to tempt fate, but to remove the temptation. I want to show you a few quotes and ask you to think about them:

Coping with Infidelity: Part 4 Overcoming Resentment


Requirements for Recovery

And of course you had to know this would serve no purpose. You aren't going to successfully guilt an adulterer. In their mind it's all about them. I'm sure she said she never meant to hurt you. You don't figure in her world at all. You are a non-person to her, so she didn't plan to do anything to you.

I would send a letter to her airline supervisors and let them know that they are employing a person who wrecks marriages. I have to believe that airlines would not want to knowingly employ a person who would damage their reputation in such a way.

Absolutely!

Much too cliche for the airline's good. Highly frowned upon in fact.

I would up the ante and send a letter to her facebook friends to scare her off from your H. She is still pursuing him and eventually he will give in and take her call if you don't stop her. Everyone should know what kind of person she is so they can protect their marriages. I would target her parents, family and any MARRIED people on her fb page. She is still chasing your H and needs to be put down.

I would send out something like this to the targets above in a private message [make a copy of all her contacts in a WORD doc first because when she gets wind you are doing this she will shut her down. SPACE YOUR LETTERS OUT 1 minute apart so fb does not shut you down for flooding]

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 small children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. HE ended his affair with her and she continues to call and pursue him. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

Why don't you? She should have to deal with the consequences of her affair as well.

Seriously, anyone is capable of having an affair, even you. Don't think you or anyone else is above it. The problem is that most people think they are above it and don't put the conditions in place to prevent an affair from occurring. That is where your WH screwed up. Weak boundaries. Trust me, as a guy, we have a very hard time turning down sex. It's almost impossible. The key is not to be in a situation where you are offered it in the first place. Also, opportunity is a huge problem. Going forward, your WH cannot travel and needs to spend every night with you to help ensure nothing can happen again.

I also want you to know that your WH is infinitely better than your wayward father. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and got himself out of a bad situation. Honestly, it may seem like no consolation to you, but most of us wish our WS would have seemed as remorseful as yours. Many of us had to endure our WS continuing their affair even after we discovered it. That is a nightmare.

I know that you think your marriage will never improve, and you have every right to get divorced, but if you are going to stay together because of the kids, let me assure you, your marriage can recover, you can trust your WS again, and you can build a marriage much better than the one you thought you had. You can be in this marriage because you want to and because you are in love with your husband, not just because of the kids.

I understand your anger right now. Don't let it consume you and ruin your reconciliation attempts if you are intent at keeping your family together.

Hi Seriously,

I have read through your thread and it brings back a lot of my own painful thoughts during my discovery of my husband's affair........
I can totally understand how you feel about the questions and the reasons behind your husband's ability to have an affair and the ease it seems that he gave up all that you held dear.............
I remember how much it hurt to understand that the man I thought I married wasn't who he really was...........he was a man that lied and was capable of making decisions that didn't have my best interests at heart...........who was this man I thought..............capable of this kind of selfishness..........how could our lives not be the most important thing in his life like I thought it was...........
I had this image of him in my mind and heart and it was devastating to find out that this wasn't really who he was...........he was a man that had an affair..........
It was hard to accept that................but the facts are what they are...............
I had a lot of the same questions as you do, could I accept all this and live with it and be able to sleep at night..............my suggestion to you is to give yourself time to think about what is best for you and your family, try spending time with your husband and talk things through.............if after some time you still feel you can't forgive and rebuild you can leave then............
I think during this time you get everything out, all your feelings and expectations and I think you will see in the long term whether your husband is truly the changed man he wants to be now.............
Can you imagine your life without him, can you see your children living without their father.............
If he could show you that he is truly remorseful for his actions could you rebuild your marriage and be happy.........
1. No Contact has to happen, that means both of you have absolutely no contact in anyway with her.....
2. You spend time together meeting each other's needs, you have lots of communication..........
3. You just enjoy each other again and your family...........

You can stop anytime you want but I think every marriage deserves a shot and I think for you, you have always loved him you didn't decide to stray..............you deserve to not give up on you and your happiness.......
He will have to be accountable for himself and he will have to work on being that man he should have been all along, if he loves you, you will see it............

I'm going to be the lone voice that says don't.
IMO, this is not your mess to clean up. It's his. I can guarantee if he wants NC from her he can get it. I agree with exposure but only in so far as it destroys the A and so helps your M. I don't think vengence exposure is helpful. It ricochets back to you. So question your motives and behave accordingly.
My personal mantra in your situation was 'I refuse to behave in a way that I would not be proud for my daughters to know about later when they are old enough.'

Get the name of her direct manager/superviser/and their superviser. Do this in writing, and sign your name. Don't send the letter to just one person - it's too easy for that to 'get lost'. List everyone you're sending/copying it to so that all parties can see who has been informed.

I've never really worked on crafting this type of exposure letter, and others will chime in to develop it, but here's where I would start:

Dear Supervisor/Manager (get their names)
I am grief-stricken to write this letter, but I feel you must know that Skanky-Hola Stewardess, who was on your flight crew (name the flight dates that you've got) has been involved in an adulterous affair with my husband, Joe Seriously.

I recently discovered this, and I am sure you can understand that my two children and I are devastated. Joe and I are trying to recover our marriage. Obviously he will no longer be flying on your airline, since it was in Skank-Ho's capacity as Flight Attendant that her flirtatious behavior with my husband ignited the affair.

I write you this because I know your reputation as an upstanding airline, and I am sure you do not wish to compensate employees who enter into adulterous affairs while serving as a representative of your airline.

Please contact me at (xxx) xxx-xxxx if you would like further information or have any questions.

Sincerely,
Seriously (sign your name)

Exposure is not an act of vengence, though. It is a gift to the wrongdoer and a warning to others that this person is dangerous. Exposure makes it harder for people to do wrong and helps lift the fog that accompanies wrongdoing. The more exposed a crime, the more people to hold that person accountable. Exposure is good, not bad.

What is bad is the person's behavior. If I "exposed" that you won a olympic gold medal for swimming, you wouldn't call that vengence. My point being that there is nothing wrong with exposure; if there is something wrong it is with the exposed ACT.

To not expose an affair is to protect the adulterer from the consequences of his actions. That helps no one.

In this case, the OW is carrying on workplace affairs which places her company at legal risk. If they know she is trolling the employee pool for action, they can put a stop to it and protect themselves. Many companies choose not to employ cheaters because they cannot be trusted. They are loose cannons in the workplace. I do not know of any hiring managers who would want to promote a cheater.

Secondly, this skank is still pursuing her H and likely will unless and until she is met with force. She is a marriage terrorist and terrorists only respond to firm, decisive action. I bet she will think twice about pursuing her H if she is too busy explaining her reckless behavior to her parents, family and friends. This skank is so brazen that she did MrS in their home. And even when he ended the affair she continues to pursue him. She is loud and proud and will only react to loud and proud.

Any person should be PROUD of such an exposure. There is no shame in exposing wrongdoing, there is shame in engaging in wrongdoing and helping the infidels conceal their dirty secret.

Exposure

I agree with exposure and the power it can have in destroying the A but it CAN be an act of vengence. The difference is in the motives. IMO where it has no direct impact on the ending of the A and where it does have direct negative consequences on the OW then it smacks of vengence.

If, for example, if I discover a person is cheating on their taxes I don't feel the need to report them, even if I think it's wrong. If I discover a person is having an A, I will expose the A to that person's spouse and then allow the BS to deal with it as they see fit. I would not go on a one-woman crusade to ensure that the APs 'get their just desserts'.
In this case, I am not convinced how getting the OW fired could have an impact on the A and on saving the M.
I have the utmost respect for Dr Harley and his experience in saving marriages but if he's advocating a Big Brother state then I would have to disagree with him.

I agree with Tully for one reason:

" My personal mantra in your situation was I refuse to behave in a way that I would not be proud for my daughters to know about later when they are old enough."

This is one of the most important things to me. I do not want to be seen as a vengeful, hateful person in my daughters eyes.(people from the outside looking in see it this way ) My DD is old enough to have been in the middle of my situation.

I agree with you she should have to pay (I feel the same way,what are her consquences for her actions?)

The only thing I can come up with is KARMA, what goes around comes around. She will get hers someday. Knowing this is the only thing that makes me feel a little better.

Also ... Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes only god knows what that is ... but it is always for the greater good.

Also something to think about I found this to be my favorite quote:

" More marriages may survive, if we realise the worse may come before the better "

Also my new favorite song :





(((((( seriously)))))))


P.S. Tell your girls ASAP (in little girl speak)..... they should never feel like their mommy does not love them,or they have done something wrong. This is tearing them apart also.

I would personally consider it the act of a strong woman if my mother acted strongly and decisively in ending my father's affair and protecting my family.

Consider: Skank Stewardess continues to contact Seriously_WS. Because there's no reason not to. She feels no threat to her to be able to destroy a marriage. Exposure to an employer is often the come to Jesus that is needed when someone uses their workplace to engage in an affair. It directly affects the employed adulterer.