The Road, Maritalbliss, and Lost

Thanks for your wise counsel. I will surely need to go down the legal road. In the interim, I would like to pursue Plan B somewhat amended.

Instead of having Honey pick up the kids at a friend's house, she would pick them up from my place, with a friend talking with her while I am in another room or outside the apartment. She expressed openness to this idea last night on the phone. I would still communicate with her via an IM.

This plan would have all the benefits of my original Plan B: I don't see or talk with her. And it would prevent me from spending thousands of dollars at a time when I have $80 in the bank and owe friends and family members $2,000. What do you think?

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Me: BH, 40 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10; about to go to Plan B
Have talked with lawyer twice; hate it
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife has NOT filed

Waywards give empty promises. She agrees to this now, but will change things later.

Your plan is a recipe for disaster. All exchanges with my ex, early on in the process, were stressful affairs for everyone, including the kids.

There is no avoiding the legal road. I was unemployed and started the process. Put it on a credit card if necessary or get another job that pays more or get another job to build up a reserve.

Not having legal papers means you will be susceptible to her next tantrum.

The best place to exchange the kids is a neutral place. You drop the kids off at daycare. She picks them up there, or a school.

I don't understand. What's the difference between WW picking the kids up at your house as opposed to a friend's house?

Hmmm....what's she thinking....I don't know, MJ. It sounds to me like she is trying to play King of the Mountain, or something. Like she's trying to manipulate your Plan B as a way of getting in there and eventually dismantling it entirely. It just sounds like a power struggle.

My first thought is to tell her that she doesn't get to dictate these terms. No, I take that back: my FIRST thought remains the same. See an attorney. Can you see if there is legal help available at low/no cost in your area? Have you looked into that?

She is attempting to change your terms. I don't like it. Let's see what everyone else says.

Hi MJ,

I have not been able to get on here for awhile, but did spend some time catching up on your story. To be honest I felt your sitch was headed to a Plan B.

You are getting good advice from alot of people, and as I see it you now have two objectives. The first is to continue faithfully in your Plan B. Please do not ever forget that this is for YOU - for you to decide on what you want to do regarding your marriage, and to protect yourself and strengthen yourself in however many ways - eating well, learning your new job and excelling, exercise and workouts, and just enjoying life on your terms. Please stop fretting over what her most recent or next move is! She moved out of your life a year ago as I recall, so you two are really estranged now, period. I do not feel she is still your 'Honey' MJ. The second objective, and in my view this is mutually exclusive to a Plan B, is to assure you have equal parenting with your daughters, and that you protect them from this or any AP ASAP, period. This is your oblication as their dad. I am still very concerned about who your WW may be exposing them to, and I think you are assuming a great risk of potential harm.

So, I totally agree with SBus and Help you need to get to an experienced attourney ASAP to establish your parental rights, the fact that you have a stable home, and that your WW may in fact be guilty of child endangerment! Yes, in my opinion after such a long time that you two have been estranged this is necessary. Otherwise you will be viewed by any court as approving of your WW's allegations. Back in the 80's and early 90's MJ I was a crisis intervention phone counselor and I recall a number of cases of disputes like this resulting in the inactive parent, even tho not guilty of anything except inattenton and inaction, threathened with a jail or prison sentence due to neglect.

I realize you may be in a tough financial situation. In a serious case such as yours I do believe that a number of good attorneys will welcome a payment plan of some sort. There are even some who handle critical situations such as your gratis - it would just take alot of phone calls.

I am very conserned about you at this point MJ. You need to listen hard to the people here who are advising you and act. And, as much as I know how you feel about her, please stop calling this idiot (your WW) by the name 'Honey'. That seems degrading to you as well as irritating to the good people who are advising you MJ. I realize she was once your W, but she no longer is. She is now a middle linebacker on the opposing team who is out to gore your QB, and your job as an offensive lineman is to flatten her legally, socially, and emotionally at this time.

I will send some prayers for you MJ, but please get with the program here.

Tom

Good to see you, Tom.
Well, yeah MJ. What Tom said. I wasn't going to say anything, but he's right. The alien who picked the kids up from day care before you is NOT HONEY. Not even close. It's like referring to your butcher as your barber, okay?

It might be a good thing to look at her like an alien, instead of like your former, non-alien wife.

I know that is why I've always called her WW, not Honey..and I think other posters do the same.

Hi again MJ.

I know you are going to feel that my post to you was harsh - and I admit it was, but for a purpose. You are one of the few men on here who have fought - most just come here, look, discuss, and scurry away, as I am sure you have seen. You seem to grasp the ideas and strategy, but your reaction time is slow, that is all.

I wish you the best and I will continue to devote prayers for you unless you tell me otherwise.

Marital - you are truely a goddammed saint! I mean that. Hope you can look in on Writer.

MJ, my best,

Tom

Awww, now shucks, Tom. You're making me blush
Writer? I'll go see what's going on...

Tom and everyone else,

Thanks for your email. I appreciate your advice and kind words about my effort. I will stop calling her "Honey" and will explore low-cost legal help.

FWIW, I prefer not to call WS' "aliens." This implies that morality does not apply to them. To me, they are just plain ol' Adulterers.

By the way, I have read a lot about Plan B. But executing one well requires doing things not always spelled out:

-- money to pay for court fees and legal help.

-- detailed knowledge of legal separation in terms of custody, alimony, etc.

-- a back-up plan in case the WS balks at the conditions of Plan B.

-- if kids are exchanged at the BS' home, have a roster of persons who can serve as an IM; IM's have lives too, and they can't always be available.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10; about to go to Plan B
Have talked with lawyer twice; hate it
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife has NOT filed

Hi MJ,

Didn't mean to imply the proverbial 'alien' regarding your WW. Just think of her as 'estranged' or simply 'selfish'.

Yes, detailed knowledge of separation and custody, I think you could get a low cost attorney and some advise really MJ. Let me give you just my example of that. When I found out Char had been abused at this nursing home, one of the things I did was to contact attorneys in Elder Abuse. Thought I would have to meet him in his office last spring - nope, he spent about 45 mins on the phone with me regarding rights and options. Took his advice, call the Ombudsman Agency he recommended her in IL - four staff fired, her protected, and the home is now on file and they have had to endure a state review.

As far as a back-up plan in case she balks? In my opinion NO. NO. No. No back up plan MJ. This exercise includes both spine strengthening as well as AB's strengthening! First, if you can, do about 30 bicycles, then about 35 back curls, then 15 chair situps, 20 leg lunges with a 10-lb. weight in each hand, and then about 40 calf raises. I do these nwo every other day since early November. Of courss I am just a tad older. It helps your spine, MJ, and it helps your thinking. Plus, it sort of makes you feel good about being strong! Bottom line is, no way now how no form do you worry now about what she thinks or if your plan b doesnt' work.

I truely wish you well MJ. Ya know. You are a little like my Packers this year. Early injuries, a bleak outlook, but want to know where they are now?

Prayers and good luck and keep in comm.

Tom

I recommended that you file first for one simple reason:

IT WILL MAKE HER UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE A BACKBONE, AND THAT YOU REALLY ARE DONE MESSING AROUND WITH HER.

The other benefits are all good and fine, but you have been a dishrag for too long. Sorry if that hurts, but it is the truth.

If you file, she will stop seeing you as weak.

Before I file anything, I need to execute a good Plan B. My email IM is quitting on me and my main physical IM has all but done that. Like John in SAA, my plan B is being crippled.

I can't let it die. Can anyone serve as an email IM for me? I would be in your debt.


-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10; about to go to Plan B
Have talked with lawyer twice; hate it
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife has NOT filed

MJ,

Your Plan B needs to include some legal filing. Without it, you just continue on the way you have - in her mind.

My thoughts are that you acted too late for anything to be effective. Sorry, but that's what I think.

File.

SB

SB writes,


My family and I don't need this counsel of despair. If your comments can't provide a dose of realism and hope, please don't post here.

I do plan to file for legal separation. But for various reasons, I can't do that now.

I am still looking for an effective email IM.

Hi MJ..it has been awhile, but have been busy with various things lately.

It's very easy for an outsider to attempt to give any advice. However, I sure would continue with the Plan B even tho you do not have a current IM. A lot of people probably don't want to get involved that way because it is a delicate situation. Can you arrange to consistently pick your kids up at her place, and return them there? Even tho you would have that very limited contact with your WW, I don't feel that would jeoprodize or minimize your Plan B - until you find another IM. It would simply be: doorbell ring - "are they ready?" - and adios ma'am! Yes, you may have to exhange a few emails to establish parenting schedules, but these should be minimal as well.

MJ, I think at some point this situation is going to go bust tho. I just cannot see two people continuing like this and not divorce. I am not advocating divorce by any means, but unless there is some clear, substantial movement on the part of your wife in terms of any inclination to reconcile to you I have to say that a total legal separation at least is going to be better for you and for your daughters. In addition, I would still be greatly concerned about your daughters' continuing possible exposure to this OM!

I don't know what else to say MJ, except to hope and say a few prayers for you that something breaks in your favor to break this deadlock, and that is what this is.

The best to you MJ,

Tom

MJ,

My advice is always my sense of the REAL. I don't try to blow smoke up your skirt - I try to offer you real advice so that the next thing that happens is NOT a surprise.

Optimism is fine. Unrealistic optimism is not.

My opinion has always been that you needed to DO something, and instead you chose to hang back and wait. Fact is, my thoughts are that this has likely been an ineffective approach.

I wish you well.


SB

Yep. ITA. Sorry MJ. I want the best for you, but your approach to this has been so lackluster that it breaks my heart. I would have volunteered to be your IM, but I knew you never seriously wanted that. Sigh. I hate to see someone let their marriage slide away.

I'm sorry, actually, not I'm not.

Haven't posted in a while, but this is Bull$#%!

Not everyone has the strength, trust, or circumstances to execute a perfect "MB plan".
But, to blame the loss of a marriage on NOT following your idea of the plan to a "T" is harsh and wrong.

Guess what, sometimes marriages can't be saved no matter what the BS does. Sometimes the two are so withdrawn that no "plan" will work. MJ has done nothing wrong, other than together with his spouse not meet each other's emotional needs. No plan can undo what has accumulated over many years.

Don't you dare tell him that he let his marriage "slide away" because he didn't follow this plan. Totally unfair.

Well,it didn't work for him HIS way, did it.

Hey vets,

I will respond to everybody's comments tomorrow or this weekend. In the meantime, I have news:

Another friend agreed to serve as an IM. So far, he has been good, sending my WW emails within a few hours of me asking that he send them to her.

Also, my babysitter has agreed to serve as an informal physical IM. I drop the kids off at her place, and slip her a few bucks. Considering that I would drop the kids off only once a week, the amount is minimal.

I got papers today from my WW's lawyer asking that I agree to her terms for legal separation in her state of Virginia. As for tangibles, all she really wants is an extra $270 a month for daycare. (She was ticked in late August that I refused to pay for half the cost of daycare. My response was that I wasn't paying for half of day care when I got the kids only 2.5 days out of the week). As for intangibles, she wants to dictate terms.

I'm not happy my WW wants to file for legal separation. But it's better than her filing for divorce, and all the MB'ers wanted me to file for legal separation anyway.

Don't worry. I'm not signing anything. More details to come. In the meantime, I need to go to bed. I got a big day at work tomorrow.


-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and no longer jobless; just broke)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In plan A at Dr. Bill Harley's advice since May '10; about to go to Plan B
Have talked with lawyer twice; hate it
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10