Thanks for the response. I don't think there is anything new in there. I basically have written that out for my wife before, but I think each time I do it gets put into blunter and blunter language.

On getting out and coming clean, it was actually a very strange experience...in the same way that after the first time we had sex I had this death like experience...when I had the resolve to quit and come clean, it was the exact opposite experience...I woke up and all the guilt and pain that I was causing my wife hit me...and at the same time, I knew that I could quit...and after I had both of those things, I knew that if I took another step down the wrong road, I was damned, and there would be no chance of saving either my marriage nor my soul.

I am so grateful for that moment of clarity and resolve. ..because one of my concerns in reconciling with my wife, is that I don't want to do this terrible thing to her again, and if that person who I was the past year is who I am on the inside, then I want to run far away from her...I don't want this clarity and resolve to be temporary...is this type of behavior with women an addiction for me? I spoke to my father who has had his share of experiences in life, and I spoke to him about this...he described it in terms of alcohol, how after a life of drinking...one day he woke up, and never touched it again...until that point he couldn't, but there was a point where he "woke up" and it was over...unlike his challenges with smoking where there was a true addiction.

I am grateful to you for expressing some commonality of how you felt. I was a lying, deceptive, calloused, self-serving a@@ for a year, it makes me even wonder if my own explanations now are b.s....so hearing that in some ways I was feeling what someone else has felt, and they overcame it - it helps me have confidence that I am on the right path to internal change, and that we are on the right path to change in our marriage.

I've ordered SAA, and plan on signing up for the online seminar where you have accountability coaches for doing the exercises, etc...has anyone done the online seminar? is it helpful?

Go back & read my "PS" before you thank me too much.

You want confidence, I know. So did I at this stage. You want to be confident that all of this reading, all of the sudden attention you're paying to your wife, the sudden, uncharacteristic humility, is going to be rewarded in a saved marriage.

The tough part is stepping out in faith when you HAVE no assurance, when you have no idea whether this is all going to be too much for Seriously, on the days (and there'll be more than a few) when she doesn't share your newfound enthusiasm for your relationship.

Again, you've ground your words into powder. They mean dust. Nothing you can say will take the sting off what you've done right now. It is going to take time & sustained, persistent effort. It will be the hardest thing you've ever done, mentally-speaking. B-school was a snap compared to this. And it'll be the hardest thing your wife will ever have done.

Hit me up - addy below.

I noticed the bashing...its good...i need it :-)...I'm with you...I was mentioning that as how I used to think. I get it now. the way I figure it, every good deed I did before this doesn't count for s#$%. I remember thinking after it happened, that I had been at this pinnacle of strength, and fallen to the ground overnight...but as I spoke with my church leaders and confessed to them as well, one of them really helped me to see that I didn't fall from high to low overnight....i had been letting the pride, the lust , the "do whatever feels good" mentality, all those things develop and influence me for a long time...I know I have no place to get angry...I remember a few days after confessing to her I was still probably not in the right place, thinking like my 3 year old when she hits her sister and starts pouting "But I said SORRY"...I was praying and thinking and reading, and the theme that is in my head now is that if I am not willing to bear the consequences of my action without complaining against my wife or God, then I still don't get it...it was only after that moment that I have been able to go at it in what i feel is the right mentality.

@LoveIsa Choice - thanks for the words of inspiration. I feel what you are saying...I remember after I spoke to my wife about my A. The next people I wanted to tell were my guy friends... I wanted to warn them, and tell them that whatever they thought they were doing to stay protected from these temptations....to double up the defenses, to reach out to their wives when they were having problems...I really hope that as my wife and I work through this, regardless of the outcome, that we can help others avoid the pain that I have caused.

Thanks again for the imagery of going through the forest my tendency right now is to let go and run away so that He has two hands with which to hold my wife. she is hurting so terribly right now, and it almost feels that as I try t odo and feel and think and say the right things it makes her hurt even worse...we had spoken so much over the past two weeks, but as the time nears to come home she doesn't want to talk anymore. I can understand, I don't begrudge her needing alone time.

but it is hard to fight against the feeling that if I just leave her alone, she will feel better sooner. But when I feel that, I remember one of the other things that got me into this mess...being passive, and letting other people influence how I behave...I can't go around trying to always mind read people and do what I think they want me to do. I need to chart a good course towards a good goal, and move towards it. Strangely, thats how I am in my profession, but in my home life and personal life I think I was often being passive, and just let things happen rather than choosing them.

well, now I am choosing. I choose to keep trying to a)fix myself b)do what I can do to repair and restore my marriage. I'll screw up I'm sure, and there will be setbacks, but I know what I'm going for now, and I'm choosing to do it rather than just have it handed to me like everything else in life has been.

Tough few days - Basically getting a NC from the BS. After speaking for 4 or 5 hours a day for the past three weeks, the past two days she definitely doesn't want to talk. She also has asked me to no longer view her thread on MB...and I haven't...tempted, but I can't do that to her...that feels like it would be as bad as cheating on her again right now.

Was able to finally speak to her today, and she has decided that she wants me to move out when I get back to the US. Doesn't think she can heal with me around, and would rather have me in small doses.

I'm willing to do whatever she needs to heal, but I committed to not doing another thing in my life that I felt would drive us apart. I'm so afraid that this will. Inside I want to start saying heck no I'm not going, but I don't think that will be taken as a sign of commitment, she will interpret it as me thwarting her happiness. I guess I just have to hope and pray that we can keep progressing towards happiness, and go along with whatever she feels she needs. I am thinking I will have to ask her to make all he arrangements, I just can't bring myself to actually go look for an apartment and move out. Any thoughts on that approach? GloveOil, a lifeline please?

Another fear I have is that if I go out, get a nice new apartment, we aren't working on things...I fear that will put me in a weak place again. Maybe thats the test that she wants to see. I don't know. I just don't know....I was thinking I would in some ways prefer getting a room in someone's basement rather than being all alone in an apartment building.

I tried to dig deeper into what her feelings were about me moving out, and it seems she is just getting nervous and tense about having me be around all the time. I've tried to say that I will sleep and hangout in the basement, I'll follow whatever rules of engagement that she wants...but that does not sound like a good solution for her.

But again - if I'm not ready to take whatever comes next, then I'm not really in the right place to be forgiven. If this is what must be inflicted on me...so be it. I just hope that my calmness in doing what she wants doesn't reinforce in her mind that I don't care about the marriage, because I do...I really do.

In terms of commitments...still doing every commitment that I can keep on my own...with one screwup...I was alone with our maid for a few hours packing up our house, we were in different rooms nearly the whole time, but I did break a commitment. I didn't think of it at the time, but it made me realize I do have to get very extreme in doing what is right.

I would encourage you to look closely at Plan A. Learn about meeting ENs, avoiding lovebusters, putting your "giver" in charge and expecting nothing in return. Time to get that taker under control...

In addition, I would encourage you to put a call in to Steve Harley for an "emergency" session, they can get you in w/n a day or two often times. But the holidays being so close, I am not sure ~ it is worth a shot. Even if your W is not willing, do the session on your own.

Fail...

Do what you can to prevent this... this could easily lead into RA territory.

Well, that's what I would have done, had FWW allowed me to get breathing room.

I know this is against the MB way, but I sympathize with your W, regarding the need for small doses, and it would greatly enhance your Love Deposits if you do just that. Here's why,.....

She needs to find her emotional footing again,...to be in the same room with you without flinching, raging, AO, DJ,...sleeping in the same bed with someone she fears THE MOST right now. Not only that, you are needy of her to reciprocate "it's okay, hon",...or smile (and appreciate) when you do this and such you THINK she needs. She can't do that right now,...it's giving to you, where as YOU were the one that took, took, took at her expense. She has had to endure being alone for long lengths of time without you. She has a handle on the household, believe it or not (I know, I'm also married to an executive who travels frequently). Having you come in to that (even without an affair) takes a major adjustment toll on her day-to-day. If you are unemployed,...even worse!

The time away, will allow for you to meet on HER terms. It will also allow you to be on your own with this -- something, I feel is VERY necessary, right now. You HAVE TO TRUST yourself first,...and not entrust your wife with the responsibility of lifting you up and out of the pit (she's too weak to do it, right now),..you can't go falling into her arms, hoping she will "save you" from the bad impulses or the overpowering pull of OW,...or any OW. Trusting your own ability to maintain proper boundaries is key.

Let your wife call the shots on this. But, also remain in constant contact with her,...sharing by email, phone,...invite her out to dinner (away from the kids),...ask to help out around the house, etc. She really needs this,...and she needs your patience,...your empathy,.....and the space and time to heal.

On the empathy note....
I touched on this one before, but it is SO very important. YOU NEED TO PUT YOURSELF IN HER SHOES! Feel what you would feel if it had been HER, (she was alone, at home, a lot -- I'm sure, she was feeling pretty neglected by you, too)...what if she was the one that was getting the same over-the-top admiration from an OM? That feeling of being wanted,...appreciated,...desired that you got? How would you feel? What would you want from her, if it had been you? I cannot stress this perspective enough.

Do not move out. I don't care what she tells you. I will tell her the same thing. First of all, it won't help you reconnect. Actually, it will help her disconnect. Secondly, it leaves the door open for someone else to meet her ENs. I'm not accusing her of anything, but when she made a post earlier about how she met a hot professional soccer player, but she chose not to cheat, that raised red flags to me, like she was tempted, but was able to resist. In my mind, she may not have very good boundaries with members of the opposite sex either, and if she doesn't cross the line physically, she may view it as okay. Remember, with all the time you spent apart, you couldn't have been possibly meeting all her ENs either. With as happy as you describe her being lately, maybe she was getting some of those needs (conversation, admiration) met by others as well. I would be very cautious about opposite sex friendships right now. Finally, it is a bad idea legally. If she does file for divorce (which a separation would help her transition into), getting your own place will hurt you in terms of custody as well as loss of the house. Your wife could very well go wayward, move some OM in the house to replace you, and you get stuck being an every other weekend dad. DO NOT MOVE OUT. If she wants a separation, she can file for one herself. She's a big girl. However, you don't have to facilitate it.

You screwed up. I get teh sense that she wants to punish you for it. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but don't turn yourself into a pathetic doormat in the process. Do what you can to make amens for your sins. Move into a different bedroom. Don't smother her and put your ENs on hold for a while. Focus on meeting her needs and avoid LBs (don't get angry at her for not wanting you to meet her needs, be patient and don't put pressure on her or get frustrated). Slowly try and win her back. But do so from your own home.

Thanks Daisy, that was helpful, and makes me feel a bit better about time apart...

But it is hard to embrace it wholeheartedly...I can feel good about anything...sleeping in a different room, not being in the house during the day, etc...but actually moving out, getting an apartment, setting up utilities, forwarding the mail, setting up another house? I know I can put aside whatever need I have for praise or positive feedback from her if that is the issue... I know it isn't my feelings that matter right now...but that act of moving to a different place seems to be too much when it comes to trying to heal and recover. Actually, no, I'm sure it could help her heal, but it doesn't seem that it would help us on repairing the marriage...anyone else had a good experience with this?

Putting myself in her shoes...I feel like I have, and it is terrible... devastating to think what she must be feeling...I think I would react differently, but what she is feeling, it is probably worse than I can imagine.

She said something the other day that calmed me actually - In 6 months, I will be happy. So I know that whatever happens she is going to be doing it on purpose, and happily. I just really hope I'm able to be there for it. She is so amazing, intelligent, strong, and beautiful, and I have tossed away the best thing that I had in my life.

@jmwc - you echoed some of my thoughts. I am quite sure that she wouldn't have inappropriate friendships with men even if she were so angry that she wanted to do something. Her boundaries are extremely good, she is much better than I am. I do take her at her word that she is looking at it simply from a trying-to-stay-sane perspective

but as I mentioned in the post above, I just can't bring myself to consciously, willingly, take another step in driving us apart.

NO.


NO.

NO. NO. NO.



I know the drive behind this. Been there, felt that, thought that.

NO.

You want to save your M? Don't allow her to freaking chase you off.

If FWW had allowed me to get room, I would have boinked everything breathing on two legs out of pure rage, resentment, and revenge.

It was those things taking hold, and just like what allowed her to stray, it was WRONG.

In fact, maybe more wrong, because I would have done it with the exact intention of inflicting pain.

DON'T DO IT.

DO NOT BACK OFF.

If she needs space, she can have space with you in the marital home, and you in the marital bed.

NO.

An affair inflicts emotional trauma on the betrayed spouse. Trauma fundamentally changes the victim.

The pain and anger leave a gaping hole of vulnerability.

"I would never..." goes out the window when you have two tons of resentment in your heart.

She probably would have said the same thing about you prior to finding out about your affair. Besides, how the heck do you know? You weren't around all the time.

Fake it until you make it. She's going to be hostile for a while. Deal with it. Don't let it phase you. Just stay calm, keep a smile on your face, and don't press the issue. You need to do things very gently and slowly chip away at the wall she's built up. Don't get overwhelmed or frustrated with the amount of work necessarily to chip the wall down. Have you seen The Shawshank Redemption? He had a plan, he kept chipping away, and eventually, he got his freedom by being persistent.

Listen SWS, we are getting you back in the marital home, but you need to work on the POJA ASAP. Learn it, use it, live it. If she is going to agree to letting you move back in, you need to agree to certain things as well. I would suggest having some "safe" words so that if things start overwhelming her, you have to go take a drive for a nice cooling off period. Be very patient with her. For me, it seems like as much resentment that she has about the affair, she has just as much about putting your job ahead of the family and moving them overseas and keeping them there longer than you promised. The reason she didn't "want you" like you wanted her to was because she built up some resentment over your independent behavior to put your career ahead of her and the family. You need to use the POJA to resolve all of these kinds of issues in the future. The best place to start would be conditions of your move back home. POJA can be a little tricky and awkward the first few times, so I would suggest enlisting the help of the MB phone counseling to help walk you through this.

Teaching a wayward to make SELFISH DEMANDS of their newly BETRAYED SPOUSE is NOT Marriage Builders advise.

We recommend that BS's do NOT leave their home... It's not the same for WS's... We recommend they learn RESPECT after doing the most DISRESPECTFUL thing they could ever do to their spouse!

If his wife wants him to move out for a bit.... Then he moves out!

This IS MB advise and IS the respectful thing to do when you have destroyed your marriage through betrayal!

It needs to be your wifes choice, S_WS.

Read SAA (Surviving An Affair) and follow Dr. Harley's advise!

Make an appointment with the counseling/coaching center and do what they tell you and you may actually have a chance to recover this marriage.

I wish you well!