A warning to posters to keep your posts helpful and on topic. If you can help this poster with Marriage Builders concepts then please help. If not, we ask that you refrain from posting.

If you have an issue with other posters, notify the mods and don't disrupt this thread chastising posters. That is our job.

Let's get back to business and stick to Marriage Builders. Thank you.

Uh-huh. And those are the ones you personally know about, yes? Do you have any idea at all how many others are out there? Most of the sexually abused women I know of are married and coping - some well, some not so well, in keeping with the 50/50 adultery chance I mentioned earlier.

My apologies, Fireproof - I'm off-topic and personally addressing another poster. Done. Pinkie-swear.

The main reason he shouldn't think about reconciling with his WW is because she cheated on him so soon in the marriage. That doesn't bode well for the future, especially since she has no remorse about it. I know not all sexually abused are broken, but she fits the pattern on one who is currently broken that will not fix herself as long as she has a man (crutch) in her life, ala Gerkaguard's WW. The parallels are extremely similar, very young, immature, sexually abused, extremely entitled, no kids, young marriage, etc. I'm telling him that he can try plan A/B but because of her age and maturity, no kids, short marital history, etc., it's most likely not going to work out in the long run.

Quoted for truth. I had some excellent MBers advise me to divorce after 4 years of marriage and no kids. That was 3 years ago. Thank God I did. She is now alone, just gave birth to a baby from a deadbeat Mexican artist boyfriend with 2 other children from two other women. This from a college-educated, talented, "smart" woman! Meanwhile, I, with a lot of help, support, and love, am in a committed, AMAZING relationship with a gorgeous, WONDERFUL woman whom is truly like an angel from heaven.

I swore after the affair/divorce that I would NEVER marry again...... but now I am not so scared.

And, for the record, my XWW was abused as a child as well. Of course some can work through their issues, (she claimed that she had), but I wouldn't bet on it.

You know, this poster listened to the suggestions about getting divorced and has decided to try and save his marriage, so the divorce angle needs to be dropped. And sure, some people don't "work through their issues;" it doesn't mean they need to run off to a "counselor." And it has no bearing on the current situation.

Can we please get back to helping this poster save his marriage?

Just wanted to chime in and agree with what others are saying. I dated women like this and married one. They�re walking time bombs that leave nothing but destruction and pain in their wake while caring very little about those that they hurt.

There are moments of sanity and clarity, but they are the exception, not the rule.

If you really think she�ll change, then rebuild your marriage only if she agrees to IC to deal with past demons and fully commits to MB.

If there was advice that I could give this guy to save his marriage, I would.

My best advice would not to tolerate the OM at all. Do all you possibly can do to cut off your WW from OM, exposure, track her with GPS, spyware, etc. Make it physically impossible for her to see OM and stay married at the same time. Sure, she'll probably run off with OM in the end, but it will be less suffering with you. At least you won't have to stay in limbo forever while she has two men meeting her needs. If majorly interfering in her affair ends it, then you have a shot, but don't take her back unless she agrees to MB principles. With a young, immature WW with issues like yours, you lay down the law now as far as what boundaries need to be upheld, otherwise she'll run all over you the rest of your life.

EXACTLY! He has nothing to lose by running off the OM, setting very high standards for what he will accept from her and if she doesn't live up to his standards, then move on!

Double T/J
When I read Mel's post I was thinking.... Right now I don't want the man I live with, the man my WH has become. Why would I want to ADD another one? I just don't get the whole WS mentality. You aren't happy with the one you have so you go find someone else thinking they are going to be better? Things are going to be better? gesh... the lies they must tell themselves.

Not to threadjack - but you have to realize that the vast majority of WS weren't unhappy to begin with. People who are truly dissatisfied with their marriages WILL leave - but WS don't.

WS are simply people with very poor boundaries who selfishly and cruelly allow more than one person to meet their needs. And they keep this very selfish arrangement going for as long as they possibly can. WS almost never leave their marriages unless forced out by the BS refusing to be part of a threesome any longer.

Please don't fall into the trap of thinking cheating only happens in bad marriages. It's not true. Cheating happens when a selfish person decides that "more is better and it's all about me me me and what my spouse don't know won't hurt him/her."

Well, courtvision, I would like to apologize for the threadjack and I certainly don't intend to be alarming. I will just wish you the best of luck no matter what it is you decide to do - just please decide.

Marital Bliss - the state of my marriage? Well, here's what I feel, i'll borrow a song since I've been listening to a lot of MP3's lately.

I don't need a whole lots of money,
I don't need a big fine car.
I got everything that a man could want,
I got more than I could ask for.
I don't have to run around,
I don't have to stay out all night.
'Cause I got me a sweet ... a sweet, lovin' woman,
And she knows just how to treat me right.


Well my baby, she's alright,
Well my baby, she's clean out-of-sight.
Don't you know that she's ... she's some kind of wonderful.
She's some kind of wonderful ... yes she is, she's,
She's some kind of wonderful, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahhh ...


When I hold her in my arms,
You know she sets my soul on fire.
Oooh, when my baby kisses me,
My heart becomes filled with desire.
When she wraps her lovin' arms around me,
About drives me out of my mind.
Yeah, when my baby kisses me,
Chills run up and down my spine.


My baby, she's alright,
My baby, she's clean out-of-sight.
Don't you know that she is ... she's some kind of wonderful.
She's some kind of wonderful ... yes she is,
She's some kind of wonderful, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahhh ...


Now is there anybody, got a sweet little woman like mine?
There got to be somebody, got a, got a sweet little woman like mine? Yeah!
Can I get a witness?
Can I get a witness?
Can I get a witness? Yeah ...
Can I get a witness? Ohhh ...
Can I get a witness? Yeah ...
Can I get a witness? Yes.


I'm talkin', talkin' 'bout my baby. Yeah.
She's some kind of wonderful.
Talkin' 'bout my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.
Talkin' 'bout my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.
I'm talkin' 'bout my baby, my baby, my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.
I'm talkin' about my baby, my baby, my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, ... my baby, my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.
Talkin' 'bout my baby, my baby, my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.
I'm talkin' 'bout my baby, my baby, my baby.
She's some kind of wonderful.

I keep it that way using the tenets I've learned here.

Merry Christmas there Marital Bliss, hope Santa is good to ya!

Same back atcha, americajin!

Mel, I see time and time again on these boards, a young BH with a terrible young WW, with no children and no complications yet. Me and a few other men advise him to cut his losses NOW, move on, and pick better next time - because we've been there ourselves and got that same excellent advice. But then, some woman (not usually you, to be fair) comes in and says "this is a Marriage-BUILDING site, he wants to reconcile, so either tell him what he wants to hear or don't post" - and sometimes the mods jump on that side too... forgetting that not every marriage can or should be saved. I hear Dr. Harley recommend divorce in these situations quite often - again, in a cut-your-losses now kind of way. I have been frustrated by often being muzzled - meanwhile I watch as the inevitable scenario plays out as the FBWs tell poor BH to Plan A for 6 months, while his WW who has no interest in recovery, walks all over him and makes his life hell. THAT'S giving the bad advice, IMHO. Then, he finally wises up, no thanks to the people who have muzzled the FBH's opinions, and gets rid of her, months and months later than needed. This has happened, just off the top of my head, with GerkaGuard, SickofLimbo, and Optimism, just most recently. Each time I've been told and/or forced to "shut up", while I then proceed to watch the BH suffer needlessly for months before he finally disregards the other advice and goes with what we BHs recommended all along. Poor guys. Can't we just have an open dialogue?

My point is, not just to you, but to all the BWs, is that conflicting opinions are HEALTHY - it gives the poster a variety of opinions to choose from. Not to mention that as BH's, we're arguably in better positions to empathize and give advice to a fellow man (with GREAT respect to those with TONS more experience, like yourself).


Isn't this the same advice as what we BH's are giving but using different words? She's already not living up to his standards.

Arpeggi, that is great to give that opinion ONCE but when the OP states he wants to save the marriage, then there is no reason to continually badger him to leave the marriage.

As you can see on this thread, posters did advise him to consider that option and he did. It was considered and rejected. FOR NOW. So there is no reason to continually badger him when he already stated he wants to work on the marriage. We need to help him with that for now.

What is not "healthy" is to continually badger a man to divorce his wife when he has clearly stated he is not interested in that option right now.

And you know why? Because ole Mel is gonna to click on the mod notify button if you persist. My mod notify finger is getting itchy..

*sigh* Go ahead... that's what you ladies usually do on these threads.... I'm sure that after you do that, my posts will be deleted shortly after. It's weird to me, because I would NEVER hit "notify" just because others disagreed with me. I understand he "wants" to save his marriage. SO DID I! Largely due to FBHs giving me the "go-ahead" and advice to sever, (and thankfully, nobody that "notified" mods that MARRIAGE-DESTROYING activity was occurring) I made the best decision of my life, which was CONTRARY to what I thought I wanted at the time!!

Just know that the OP is the one that suffers from not having a diverse opinion pool, not you or me, or the mods.

*sigh*

I will mod notify any time you persist in disrupting a newcomers thread. Count on it!

Court came to a Marriage Building website because he wants to save his marriage. He could just as easily gone to a divorce website because he wants to divorce, but he chose not to do that.

As usual, some posters have immediately looked at the poster's age/children/length of marriage and have advised the poster to immediately cut and run. On a marriage building website.

And there are times when that really is probably the best piece of advice they'll get for their sitch. But if they insist that it is their desire to do everything in their power to save the M, the posters who have advised him to cut and run need to wish him well and get off his thread.

Court may eventually decide that D is the best solution, but at least he can walk away knowing that he did his best to save his M.

Right. You call it disruption, I call it differing opinions. Mel, you don't have a monopoly on knowing what's best all the time - although as I constantly say, you're about the best to listen to on these boards in general.

Notify away - it doesn't bother me. It just makes me sad that you've escalated this when we could have all coexisted and respected each other's opinions.... This is all a pointless distraction from our MUTUAL goal of best helping the poster - it's just egos that have gotten in the way.
Enjoy your click. Hope it makes you feel better.

Hey, who you calling a LADY??

Yup, I've notified the Mods when a thread is being disrupted, and I'll do it again whenever I need to. But I won't post about that anymore on this thread. Let's get back to courtvision.

What the latest, court?