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I was just having this discussion on a Christian forum (try having fun with THAT....talk about neanderthal). My DH is absolutely manly. Strong and sexy and.....manly. But he doesn't watch football, he has never played sports, he doesn't go huntin' or drive an F150, I am the only woman he has ever been with. On top of that, he is a music major, likes musical theater, knows how to paint and sew and cook, and yes - wait for it - has Barbra's greatest hits on his ipod.
But he has strong faith, loves his children fiercely, loves his wife, knows how to fix a lawn mower and any appliance, and has to shave a second time to go out "smooth" at night.
I LOVE that he is complex and breaks the mold. I wouldn't trade him for all the belching, farting, woman-ogling, NFL following men on earth.
So there ya go!
Oh, and KT, my dad's PhD is in kinesiology. He was a biology teacher and coach and then a professor and head of the PE department. Except for the fact that he is bald, y'all probably have a lot in common. Oh, and he's 76 and you're only what, 45, 50? hahahahahahahaha
Some of the biggest wimps I know drive Ford F-150's and watch football, so that is not a sign of manliness, but a typical stereotype of manliness.
Manliness to me is a man who has these traits:
1. good character [deeply abiding sense of right and wrong and the courage of his convictions - is not a moral relativist retard]
2. pays his bills ontime, has a good job or when laid off does his best to find a new job and earn a good living - is always responsible and fulfills his obligations
3. doesn't make excuses when he is wrong - takes accountability for his mistakes
4. has firm boundaries and is not scared to protect them, meaning if his wife has an affair, he calmly and firmly opens up a can of HOLY HELL on her affair. He protects himself and his children from her abuse
5. takes care of his family and protects them from harm
6. treats others with dignity and respect
7. is not afraid to set his wife straight if she acts like a tyrant and won't allow himself to be manipulated
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
My DH is absolutely manly. Strong and sexy and.....manly. But he doesn't watch football, he has never played sports, he doesn't go huntin' or drive an F150, I am the only woman he has ever been with. On top of that, he is a music major, likes musical theater, knows how to paint and sew and cook, and yes - wait for it - has Barbra's greatest hits on his ipod.
But he has strong faith, loves his children fiercely, loves his wife, knows how to fix a lawn mower and any appliance, and has to shave a second time to go out "smooth" at night.
I LOVE that he is complex and breaks the mold. I wouldn't trade him for all the belching, farting, woman-ogling, NFL following men on earth.
So there ya go!
Hey, our H's have a lot in common (except mine can't fix anything - maybe yours could teach him!).
My H hates watching sports on TV. He much prefers the Food Network. He likes chick flicks more than I do (I prefer action/adventure). He has a degree in communications. He loves to talk more than I do (he's also much more affectionate than I am). He cries at sad movies. Watching him with the kids, I can guarantee that his maternal instincts are much stronger than mine are. And I had nothing at all to do with any of this - that's how he came to me.
My H is very tall, very good looking, very sexy, and has more than enough manliness for me.
I also really like the fact that he is a multi-faceted, complete, man who isn't afraid to just be who he is. Really, what's so wrong with that?
Last edited by writer1; 12/29/1010:19 AM.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
Oh, and KT, my dad's PhD is in kinesiology. He was a biology teacher and coach and then a professor and head of the PE department. Except for the fact that he is bald, y'all probably have a lot in common. Oh, and he's 76 and you're only what, 45, 50? hahahahahahahaha
I wish they had an online program for kinesiology. I'd actually like to work as an athlethic trainer and work for a sports medicine clinic one day. But until then, I'll stick with my masters in sports administration and then figure out what I want to do with my Ph.D.
Wait! Did you just call me old?! Jerk!
Husband (me) 39 Wife 36 Daughter 21 Daughter 19 Son 14 Daughter 10 Son 8 (autistic)
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
In all but very few classrooms across America, the classroom has been tailored to such a feminine standpoint, that average boys and tomboy girls are constantly in trouble and being lost, simply because they are kinetic and not static.
Originally Posted by HeadHeldHigh
Oh, but we are expected to be "men" when we have a problem!
"What? You think you've lost control? Get over it, ya sissy!"
This is interesting to me, my spouse is recently on this "quest", too. I am confused by how do you define this "manliness" and what yall are looking for.
Let's start with this - We're looking for popular culture and society (let's face it, the real education system here) to stop demeaning the contributions and existence of the male gender.
Examples? Turn on the TV. Watch the commercials. Start listing the ads the basic premise of which is that the poor, sloppy, addled male subject cannot do anything, learn anything, or continue to live without the perky, all-knowledgable female to make it easier for him. (I almost lost it when I saw the ad where the two sisters were congratulating each other on their correct decision regarding treating their father's PROSTATE problem!)
It doesn't even have to be adults. Watch an ad for children's cold medicine. It's the boy whose sneezing, nose-dripping, sleeve-wiping behavior threatens little Lucy Gumdrop, sitting there quietly playing in her spotless gingham dress.
Sadly, the children brought up in this environment get inculcated with these anti-male stereotypes. You'll note that Dr. Harley felt no need to publish guidance on "Women - Don't Leave Your Homes!" Former boy-children, now grown,have it now ingrained in their psyche that IT'S THEIR FAULT! THAT'S the awful contributor to the manifestation on the SAA thread trend that led off this thread here. Instead of rightous anger, increasingly we see betrayed males somehow feeling compelled to apologize for their skank-wife's infidelity.
Speaking of perpetuating stupid male stereotypes, a cartoon was on the other day on channel 72 (Sesame Street type programming).
The dad took the kids to the grocery store and was completely lost. He was clumsy and knocked over a bunch of stuff. Then he forgot one of his kids at the grocery store. Then he was clueless how to prepare a meal.
Seriously?!
Husband (me) 39 Wife 36 Daughter 21 Daughter 19 Son 14 Daughter 10 Son 8 (autistic)
[ You'll note that Dr. Harley felt no need to publish guidance on "Women - Don't Leave Your Homes!" Former boy-children, now grown,have it now ingrained in their psyche that IT'S THEIR FAULT! THAT'S the awful contributor to the manifestation on the SAA thread trend that led off this thread here. Instead of rightous anger, increasingly we see betrayed males somehow feeling compelled to apologize for their skank-wife's infidelity.
Now wait a minute, it was MELODYLANE who wrote "Men, don't leave your homes!" That is because when a woman says "get out!" he leaves! To my astonishment.
Quote
To the barricades, my friends!
ok, men, you have to start taking some responsibility here for this sad state of affairs. If you didn't comply with tyrannical bullies, they wouldn't succeed. I can't count the times some poor chump has come on the forum who has completely surrendered his family and home to some OM. He moves out so the next loser can move in and then tells us "there is nothing I can do, the woman always wins in court!" OF COURSE THEY WILL WIN IF YOU DON'T FIGHT!! That is a self fulfilling prophecy.
If you allow yourself to be bullied, guess what?? You are going to be bullied!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
This is interesting to me, my spouse is recently on this "quest", too. I am confused by how do you define this "manliness" and what yall are looking for.
Let's start with this - We're looking for popular culture and society (let's face it, the real education system here) to stop demeaning the contributions and existence of the male gender.
See, now, this is what I don't get. Why does everyone assume that pop culture and society are THE only education system here?
What happened to parenting as an education system? And, why are we discounting that parents make a difference? Why are we raising children to believe that pop culture is the end all and the be all of everything? Why are kids being raised so that the predominant form of entertainment needs batteries or electricity?
Granted, this is an off topic example, but kids are impressionable and DO learn from their family.
My 6 YO boy looked at me and said "Momma, I don't want to get my sister (whose 3) a bratz doll for Christmas. It's not appropriate for her." He wasn't referring to the small parts, either. He was referring to the fact that we like our children to be appropriately clothed, and he understands that value, at age 6.
Trust me, my child is not some uber-smart kid. He's not a genius. But, he does get things, actually, more than I'd think.
I just don't think that parents should be taken off the hook, so to speak, with responsibilities for teaching kids about gender stereotypes.
p.s. my son was not raised to be a wimp, either. He is a perfect gentleman but he will not allow anyone to run over him. He knows his momma would kick his [censored] if he did!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
Whew! I'm glad we got that fixed! Inrecoverynow and MelodyLane will correctly raise the entire next generation!
IRN - If you don't think that popular culture is the primary (not only) set of guidelines that CHILDREN AS A GROUP in this country are exposed to, you are living in a cave somewhere.
Good for you, and us, for doing what we can to offset the negative stereotypes rammed down OUR children's throats.
Now, if we could only get the entire population of parents to read this thread! But the way that the institution of devoted marriage takes a beating by that same popular culture, it's likely they will, soon enough!
It doesn't even have to be adults. Watch an ad for children's cold medicine. It's the boy whose sneezing, nose-dripping, sleeve-wiping behavior threatens little Lucy Gumdrop, sitting there quietly playing in her spotless gingham dress.
I would like an example of the latest commercial featuring a girl in a gingham dress. This sounds like something from the 50's. I'm no TV expert, but this does not sound like any commercial I've ever seen in the past several decades.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
Ditto for those women who have children out of wedlock and don't allow the father to be part of the child's life. You would blame the father for this?
And who's to say it isn't the man's fault that this is happening? It certainly was in my case. I kept the bio father of my older kids away because he was unfit to raise children. He was a danger to others and to himself. After he got himself arrested for assault with a deadly weapon and started threatening to commit suicide and talking about having himself committed to a mental institution, I'm glad I finally woke up and threw him out of our lives for good. Having now met him as adults, so are my older children. They tried to let him back into their lives many years later and ultimately had to cut off contact with him again because apparently he still hasn't changed.
There may be a very valid and good reason why women choose to exclude men from their children's lives. Not in every case, certainly, but vilifying all women and victimizing all men, as a few bitter posters on this thread seem determined to do, hardly seems justified.
I did what I did because I love my kids and I didn't want someone dangerous and destructive in their lives. Yeah, what a terrible feminazi that must make me.
Hey! He should have married my best friend's sister!
Her first 2 with her XH are in his full custody, her 3rd is in the custody of the father, and her 4th is in a closed adoption.
Of course, both of these are extreme cases, aren't they? More examples of the exception, and not the norm?
A lot of men will cow down to the mother of their children out of fear; fear that they will cut them out of the lives of their children. They do this with the idea that the legal system will support the mother in doing so.
It's true. In that case, she had jeopardized the safety of her children NUMEROUS times before custody was relinquished.
However, I won't buy it. Guys... man up. It's pretty simple. When you have visitation, it is a legal right. If she denies it, you simply file a police report.
Document, document, document. It goes both ways.
Back to the OT, let's not red herring the conversation, eh?
We don't have to do the victimize/vilify cycle here, because doing so is employs broad, sweeping generalizations which only really apply to minorities in either gender.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
IRN - If you don't think that popular culture is the primary (not only) set of guidelines that CHILDREN AS A GROUP in this country are exposed to, you are living in a cave somewhere.
It is my observation that about 70% of the population are not critical thinkers and are very enamored with popular culture and "trends." Alot of people watch those mind numbing, shallow, inane sitcoms [or Oprah] and take their life lessons from that. They stand for nothing and fall for everything. Most people are very susceptible to propoganda.
That is why the teachings of popular culture have such an impact on our children. Most parents don't teach their kids to question EVERYTHING they are taught in schools, etc. When my son came home in 8th grade and told me they were putting Harry S Truman on "trial" for murder for dropping the A-Bomb, I was so alarmed that I took over from there. I taught him how to research and find the truth himself. If a parent does not take over the training of their children, the child will be indoctrinated with the idiocy propogated by popular culture.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
IRN - If you don't think that popular culture is the primary (not only) set of guidelines that CHILDREN AS A GROUP in this country are exposed to, you are living in a cave somewhere.
It is my observation that about 70% of the population are not critical thinkers and are very enamored with popular culture and "trends." Alot of people watch those mind numbing, shallow, inane sitcoms [or Oprah] and take their life lessons from that. They stand for nothing and fall for everything. Most people are very susceptible to propoganda.
That is why the teachings of popular culture have such an impact on our children. Most parents don't teach their kids to question EVERYTHING they are taught in schools, etc. When my son came home in 8th grade and told me they were putting Harry S Truman on "trial" for murder for dropping the A-Bomb, I was so alarmed that I took over from there. I taught him how to research and find the truth himself. If a parent does not take over the training of their children, the child will be indoctrinated with the idiocy propogated by popular culture.
Having worked in a school for 7 years, I must say that the things being propagated in our educational system can be much scarier than anything you'd ever find on TV.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
I love that commercial. If I ever became a therapist, I'm afraid that's the kind I would end up being, so it's probably a good thing that I didn't major in psychology.
Me: BS/FWW: 48 BS/WH: 50 DS: 30, 27, 25 DD: 28 OC: 10 BH and I are raising my OC together.
