I do see your point. Just to clarify, I have no problems doing things to deposit love units and going without my needs being met. Perhaps I didn�t state that correctly in my previous post; however, when DJ or AO occur, I would like to see them being acknowledged in some way. Its very difficult to just GIVE, and be disrespected or rejected in return. I don�t think that the MB system was designed to work like that, unless I am missing something here. Even if I am just in a learning phase of meeting his needs, there is not room for AO or DJ, and if they occurred in my opinion they should be acknowledged and not swept under the rung.

What I feel took place here is he got upset said things he didn�t mean, went into a withdrawal period, and now since some time has passed he thinks that I am over it have forgotten it and everything should be OK and back to normal. In my opinion the issue from last weakened has not been addressed at all, but if I was to bring the situation up again I would get something like this in return: �you just can�t let things go� or �I can�t do anything right for you�� or something like that.

So the big question is, how do I tell him that his DJs and AOs are not appreciated without sounding condescending, angry, without making him feel like whatever he does is not good enough�etc�?


Just as an FYI, I normally don�t say much when I am angry, I tend to withdrawal and take time to sort through my emotions.

I have been avoiding such conversations. I was told that such conversations can withdrawal love units, so I need to time it correctly and make sure that the love bank can handle it. I have been focusing on meeting his needs, which is challenging for me. His need for admiration, which I hope I can say here without offending anyone I simply don�t get� why is it so important??? How do you meet the need of �admiration� effectively??

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It�s very difficult to just GIVE, and be disrespected or rejected in return. I don�t think that the MB system was designed to work like that, unless I am missing something here. Even if I am just in a learning phase of meeting his needs, there is not room for AO or DJ, and if they occurred in my opinion they should be acknowledged and not swept under the rung.

You did acknowledge that you did this to him for the course of your marriage, right? Isn�t it somewhat unrealistic to expect someone that you did not treat well for so long to suddenly forgive and forget and accept that you not only have changed but that the changes are not superficial and will last? You need to develop patience and commit yourself to the program. If you do this I think you will find that he will eventually come around when he believes that you are sincere and making a sustained effort.

I don�t know if this is an apt analogy or not, but it�s like when an alcoholic promises to stop drinking when he/she isn�t really committed to it; they can go days, weeks or even months without drinking, but their spouse knows it�s only a matter of time before they go back to drinking. How long will it take before the spouse can be sure that the change is for real?

Give it more time, show that you are committed, and reassess several months down the road. I think that you will find that if you don�t react to provocation eventually it will stop. It is going to take time and a lot of effort, and you�ll probably have to bite your tongue quite a bit for right now, but soon he will know that you really are trying and won�t be immediately defensive when you start to talk to him. Once he starts listening instead of reacting he will be more receptive to what you are doing.

This, too, is one of my big ENs and one that my wife doesn't have a real grasp on.

To me, and this may not apply to your husband, the need for admiration is respecting what I do, being proud of me, acknowledging my efforts to provide for my family, saying "I appreciate you" but understanding at the same time that I'll be humble and try to downplay it as unimportant, loving me for who I am, not trying to make me into something that I'm not.

By valuing the little things that I do for you because, while they may seem insignificant to you, they took a lot of effort and I think I did a good job. By not laughing or mocking me if I step out of my shell, try something romantic and completely fall on my a$$ in the process. By recognizing good intentions even if they don't meet your expectations. By saying "Wow, I really appreciate that you did that" and by leaving the "but" off the end of that sentence until a later time.

I don't know if that even made sense to me, but I'll post it as food for thought.

Take care.

Hi xo,

I just began reading your thread last night and was confused about something, so I thought I'd ask about it if you don't mind...


That last sentence - the one that I bolded - leads me to believe that you met your current husband and began your relationship with him while still married to your first husband - Is that correct? If so, there is a thread where Dr. Harley addresses such situations - Would you be interested in reading it?

Mrs. W

You are absolutely correct. I would love to read the information you are referring to. If its not too much trouble could you provide me with a link? Thanks in advance.

Point taken! I just wanted to elaborate a little for my own sake. I think that our current situation is a result of both of us and our unwillingness to compromise on certain issues. A result of two stubborn and pigheaded people who always need to be right, I am not kidding here. We both have admitted to such behavior.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about how miserable I feel and how unhappy I am in my marriage and that I must be insane because I keep doing the same things over and over and I am expecting different results. This realization brought me back to MB and when I started reading I was reminded that I can only change my behavior. I can�t continue to ask him to change how he behaves I can only change my behavior and pray that with time he will acknowledge that and would want to change things as well.

I was surprised and pleased to see that within days he responded, really responded. I do think that I am finally taking the necessary time to pause and think when things happen in our relationship, which I think is what you were saying about not reacting to �provoking comments�. However, that is not easy at all. Its really hard to walk away when someone is making �hurtful comments�. I keep reminding myself �give it more time�....Thank you for your comments!!

When I was reading your post it was like I was talking to my husband, especially that first paragraph. Personally, I feel as I have to comment/complement on his accomplishments/efforts all the time. You said �loving me for who I am, not trying to make me into something that I�m not�, I have heard that one a time or two!!

The romance and passion, not issues there except for the fact that when I misbehave that is the first thing he takes away from me to punish me, which drives me mad!! My husband is exceptionally passionate individual, which is what attracted me to him in the first place. However; when he is not passionate about our relationship that passion is applied elsewhere work, projects, online games, etc�. which is our current situation.

Ok, so I understand what you are saying, and was wondering if you could give me specific example of what can I say to him about his accomplishments/efforts that would make him feel like a million bucks, or a simple �I am proud of you�/�I appreciate your hard work� will do??!!

Thanks for your comments!!

I'd suggest just thinking about what he does now (or has done if that's a better example) that you appreciate.

It could be anything. Try thinking of something that he does that is done so that you don't have to do it. Taking out the trash, killing that spider in the shower, spending all day at the mechanic's so that you don't have to, worrying about money or bills so that y'all won't do without, etc.

Then just say "Hey, thanks for doing ____ all those times. I know you don't like doing it, and I'm sorry that I've never told you before, but I just wanted to tell you that I always appreciated it."

From your post, it sounds like he was good in the romance/passion area. Perhaps pull an example from that part of your history. Ideally, it would be something that would spark a positive conversation, a laugh or two would be really good...something that would account for some quality UA time.

Obviously, he may take this as phony if you've never been vocal before, but it's about changing your actions, being a better person, and trying not to anticipate the response. But make sure it is sincere whatever you bring up or he'll see right through it. Too, you might have to think about things from long ago--especially if you guys have gotten in the habit of not doing things for each other.

Hello. My wife, Mrs. W should be around later to give you that link. I'll let her know you responded....

but in the meantime could you expand on your answer a bit. Was there a lot of drama between your ex-husband, you and your new husband??? Even though it's been awhile, such "drama" can really effect your future relationship. How exactly did it go down?

Mr. Wondering

MrWondering
Yes it was very ugly. My ex had a drinking/drugging problem which led to abusive behavior, which is the main reason I needed to leave. Didn�t really know how to for the longest time or didn�t have the guts until this guy came along.

My current husband worked with my ex at the time, which is how we met and started an affair. How it started, I needed to use a faster speed internet one evening, I was uploading some info for my brother (another story), ended up going to my ex-husbands work and this guy was working late that night and the rest is history�. We started seeing each other on regular basis his place, hotels� etc..

He has never been married and has no kids. He lived in another state for number of years and when our affair started he just had moved back about a month ago. It was just that, an affair that with time turned into other things.

My ex didn�t actually find out about us until much later. Our divorce had to have been final for about a year if not longer. I am not good with dates. Which is when we actually started dating, up until then it was casual no strings attached type a thing. I think I was really using him to drown my sorrows I was in such a dark place. As I am saying that I actually think that it turned into a habit after a while and still is today. WOW� I need to think about that one a little.

When my ex found out he was furious. There were so many things that happened; I don�t think that I could repeat them all, well it would take too much time and space in the post. Two things that do stand out: 1) My current husband was forced to relocate to another work location since he just started there; 2) My ex filed a petition that he (my current husband) was a killer wanted for a murder. My husband, we were dating at the time, was interrogated for hours by detectives, it was a really stressful time. I think these two things stand out the most, but like I said there was much more.... much much more. �Drama� doesn�t begin to describe the agony and chaos that my ex has put us through since he found out about us.

Thoughts?

xo...

Yes, that is what I thought...ugh...There is MUCH I could say, and have said over the years to people that arrive here with yet another wrecked "affairage" [very predictable, do you agree?] - "What they will do with you they will do to you" and all that jazz - Unfortunately, usually the advice falls on deaf ears, and is called "mean" - Perhaps that will not be the case with you - time will tell...For right now, I will just give you the link to Dr. Harley's words about these situations - and see what you think... Dr. Harley on Affairages

I will add one last thing that I'd like for you to think about -- Right now, you've come to a venue filled with victims of adultery - You, someone who committed adultery, left her husband and married her adultery partner - Can you see where this is a HUGE nightmare for many here? A very, very hard pill to swallow...I ask that you consider them and your choice to ask for help from them...You see, I also committed adultery, by the grace of God and my husband, we recovered our marriage - and I'd give anything in this world to take back what I did...But what if we had not recovered? What if I had divorced Mr. W and married OM, and then [predictably] arrived here in triage asking the victims of the very crime I had perpetuated to help me in saving my affair? Something to think about...

Mrs. W

How devastating for your Ex-Husband to find out he was screwed over in such a mean and flagrant way by his own co-worker. It is a good thing your current H got out there. People get killed over that kind of vicious behavior. Do your daughters know that the OM did this to their family? That he is their enemy?

Mrs W.

I completely agree that in blended families there is so so much more that could go wrong. I have read the statistic regarding these situations, but don�t want to become one. I also understand that odds are against our marriage, but I am very much so committed to making it work.

As for the affair, I am not sure to what extend I agree, maybe I have blinders on right now and need to think a little more about this situation. I did read some of the information from the link you provided and I actually became very angry as I was reading. In there it suggests that I should reconcile with a drunk and a drug addict who can�t keep a job and used to show me with his fist how much he loves me.

I am a little confused about this whole thing today.

That's ridiculous. Dr Harley does not tell people to stay in marriages where there is abuse. He always advocates separation where there is abuse.

Melody,

I am sure it was a difficult time for him. I can be very sympathetic to ones internal pain; however, this whole thing with my ex is so much deeper and bigger.

My children where in dippers at the time, so no there was no discussions regarding any of this and as I stated our �affair� was just that for a long time. My ex did not know that there was an affair, perhaps I did not say that correctly. He was just mad that I was with another person period and his reaction would have been the same no matter who the individual was!! I can�t have you so no one else will type of thing!!

xo,

You do understand that the solution to abuse is not adultery, correct? There were several other options you could have chosen. Adultery is abuse - so your answer to abuse was to abuse in return?

Understand also that "he was abusive" is the battle cry of many, many wayward wives. It is not unique in the least. Most times their allegations are false, and just convenient justifications and rationalizations for their adultery. Did the judge terminate the parental rights of your BXH, or at the very least require supervised visitation with your children?

You neglected to comment regarding your choice to seek help in this venue amongst the victims of adultery - I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.

One last question for now - Why are you upset at the idea of your current partner cheating on you? Why was it okay for you and he to do to your XBH, but it's not okay if he does it to you? It's a serious question - usually this is where those in affairages meltdown and cry "mean", but really it's something you need to think long and hard about.

Mrs. W

My ex did not know that there was an affair, perhaps I did not say that correctly. He was just mad that I was with another person period and his reaction would have been the same no matter who the individual was!! I can�t have you so no one else will type of thing!! [/quote]

But he did find out what you did to him and had every reason to be angry. The crime was compounded by lying to him. How do you plan on teaching your daughters right from wrong given your own situation?

Mrs. W
Well I am not making excuses for myself and you are correct that there were other options available (probably healthier options) and I have chosen one that was not appropriate, but looking back I was in such a dark/bad place, lost, confused, and hurt, not that this justifies my choice. I should have just left and got the appropriate help and recovered from the scars of the abusive marriage. Instead I didn�t and I jumped into another marriage. I know I was not ready to be married again, and my kids were not ready. Really no secret there but again, poor choice on my part and I take full responsibility for these choices, but I can�t turn back time to change them. So I can dwell on these choices or accept the reality.

The kids are supposed to visit with dad couple of hours every other week. They used to be supervised visits, but that has been lifted as he showed interest in recovery from his additions and completed required education. Currently he has not seen the kids 2 months.

I am not going to try to justify or convince anyone that my 1st marriage was abusive. Very private matter to me what really went on; I actually struggled sharing this information during my divorce as some day my kids can pull these records and see what really happened. How devastating to the kids. My heart aches as I type this, just the idea of them seeing all of that.

You neglected to comment regarding your choice to seek help in this venue amongst the victims of adultery - I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
If I understand correctly: I originally started my post in the MB101 because I think that my current marriage just needs basic guidance. When I posted comments regarding his online activities, it was recommended that my post gets moved into the SA forum so I made the request, but maybe I should not have.

To address your last series of questions�
I never said I was upset about his online �call-in� service. If I recall I stated that I felt ashamed. I am hurt by his actions/behavior. I am hurt that he did not trust me or felt he could not talk to me about his needs, or perhaps he did and I ignored them. It also drives me mad that he lied to me. His online activities are only the symptoms of our problems. I am here to find guidance and support (since all odds are against us to begin with) to correct our behaviors and build a strong marriage, but for the past two days I feel as I have been dwelling on and re-living my past mistakes.

It was not OK for me to cheat and it is not OK for my current husband to engage in the online activities that he did.

I think reflection on your mistakes - past and present - is a very fruitful endeavor - As Dr. Phil is famous for saying, "You can't fix what you won't acknowledge"...

To be blunt, I do not think you will have success in fixing your situation on these forums - Remember, Dr. Harley, a clinical psychologist with 40 YEARS of experience, has said that he hasn't figured out a way to help affairages...That speaks volumes, since the man has had countless success in saving other troubled marriages...What he has found is that one or the other in the affairage is incapable of following the POJA [Policy of Joint Agreement] - the thoughtlessness that allowed them to come together in the first place remains in their relationship, and though he has tried, it has not been possible for him to help them figure out a way to eradicate that...My conclusion being, that if a seasoned professional with massive amounts of success in saving marriages can't figure out a way to fix them, well then, how in the world can a forum full of amateurs? We are only here to support Dr. Harley's program - a program that, as of yet, has not reported success in fixing affairages...So there ya go...

My advice? Call the Harleys anyway, and see if they are able to help you - It's my understanding that they are always willing to try...If BOTH you and your partner are willing to do that, then maybe you'll be the Harleys' first affairage success story...

Good Luck,

Mrs. W

P.S. Edited to add: Link~~~> Coaching Center