I agree with Sunnydaze completely.

My H was involved in a long-term EA with an ex-girlfriend for the first 10 years of our M. It would have been so easy for me to blame my A on that. Heck, several counselors, our Bishop, and even my H himself said that he was to blame. But I never bought into that. Regardless of what my H did, my A was my decision and my decision alone, and I take full responsibility for the mistakes that I made. Nothing my H ever did could "make" me do anything.

Right now, your H is making choices that are detrimental to the well-being of your daughters and your family. HE is making those choices. There is nothing you are doing that is making him shirk his responsibilities as a father. He is using this to lash out at and hurt you, and using one's children in this way is reprehensible. But it isn't your fault. It is HIS. He is the one who is choosing to use your kids as a pawn to get you to do what he wants you to do. That's very sad, and I truly hope that he comes around and realizes the damage he could ultimately do to his relationship with them before it's too late.

There is absolutely nothing you are doing that could even remotely be taken as taking away his children from him. He is making that choice all by himself, and he's the one who is going to have to live with the consequences of those decisions.

No, you are not an evil person. You did make some very poor choices. You can't go back and change that. The only thing you can do is move forward and try to be the best person you possibly can be from this point on. You CAN do that, whether or not your H ever forgives you or decides to give your M another chance. You don't have any control over his decisions. But you can strive everyday to be a better person. He isn't in control of whether or not you get to do that. Even if your M doesn't survive this, YOU will survive it, and you can come out on the other side a better and stronger person.

I'm not saying you should give up on your M yet. But I do think you need to stop allowing your H's opinions of you to define who you are as a person. He is in a very dark place right now, and allowing him to continually pull you down into that dark place with him isn't healthy for you or for your daughters. You need to look back over how far you have come as a person over the past several months and know that you have done everything in your power to be an open, honest, and honorable human being. Really, that's all you could do. Now, it's up to him whether or not he decides to meet you half way. But whatever happens, your daughters need you to be strong and whole, and allowing your H to continue to cut you down like this isn't good for you or them.

Thank you, sunny and writer, for your support. It is hard not to get pulled down into the dark. Most days I genuinely hate myself for what I did. I know there is a difference between guilt (feeling bad for what you've done) and shame (feeling bad for who you are). Just haven't quite made myself believe it in my heart yet.

I can't control what he does. I never could, any more than he could control my actions or any of us can control anyone elses'. I certainly don't think he's evil, I think he is hurt. Broken, like his screen name. I still love him.

I just don't know if I am being cruel by staying in the house. I would never keep him from the kids. I don't know, maybe I should try to suggest something else. I definitely don't think they need to be out of their home every weeknight and every other weekend. And if he was home, even if I lived down the road, I would still have a chance to see him every day and try to keep Plan A. With him at his stepmom's I won't see him hardly at all. Afraid to get legal advice as he would see it as a sign I want a divorce. Really, afraid to do much of anything that he might think was me trying to hide anything from him or betray him or give up on him. Head spinning.

He did respond to my email requesting reconciliation - it was, essentially, "I don't want reconciliation, I have made my decision, I want a divorce."

Oh, good - Joyce just emailed me about being on the show again - I'll keep you guys posted. I really don't want to do anything until I can talk to Dr. H.

I think this is a good idea. Let us know how it goes.

Somebody is a grumpy grizzly bear.

Enough grief, anger, sadness, resentment, guilt, shame, humiliation, rage, regret, etc has been packed into the powder keg - and now a match has been lit.

It's go time.

The crap he is doing is unacceptable, but the exploding man has ignited - and now he doesn't care who is standing next to him.

Dunno... I wonder if Plan A will still be the answer - right up to the day the D finalizes (if he files) and possibly as long as it takes after for you to be DONE.

The only thing you would have to lose is your love for him, and you would lose it fighting to bring him home to his family.

I'd say that's a worthy cause.

I'm afraid I am beginning to lose it already. I've learned some things recently that are affecting that. I know what I did was despicable. Not just the A, but the lying. No, what I've done in recovery hasn't been perfect. I've made a lot of mistakes, but I've tried everything I can think of or anyone has suggested to try and give him just compensation in the hopes we could recover our M.

He has every right to leave.

I'm just going to wait to see what Dr. H has to say. That is all that I know to do right now.

Of course you are NOT being cruel, you are being a responsible parent!

You are NOT evil either!

Your H is making choices that HE is responsible for....... These choices are NOT yours, OK!

I've done a lot of thinking the last couple of days. After I get the kids in bed, that's pretty much all I do!

Anyway, I think that I am being selfish by staying in the house. I stayed, not to be mean/evil/cruel/vindictive, but I stayed for selfish reasons regardless - I stayed because I wanted H to come back home to us. Because my idea of "home" is the 4 of us together under one roof. I am selfishly trying to force that on H, without addressing his view that the four of us together is no longer his idea of home. By staying I am keeping him from his home, seeing his kids every day, and pretty much all his worldly possessions except what he managed to pack and take with him.

Without him, I don't love my house as much as I thought. It's not a "home" anymore. I'm seeing what this is doing to the kids - I did briefly mention moving to them and DD#1 treats everything like an adventure...although she did say she wanted to stay with Daddy to "keep him company." DD#2 is showing stress with some of her little nervous tics (she had been slowly getting better but I've noticed she's doing her hair-twirling thing and sucking her thumb more often when she is awake, and trying to hide it from me - she'd practically stopped sucking her thumb during the day), and for the past couple of nights she keeps coming to me and crying that she can't fall asleep.

I've been letting them sleep w/me which probably isn't good, but their rooms are so scrambled right now since I'd started trying to redecorate, and I'm just lonely...

So there you go - I think I am being selfish. I've already taken so much away from him that it is not fair for me to take more. If he was home the kids would see him every day because not seeing him seems to be wearing on them. They wouldn't be away every weekend so at least I could take them to church the weekends I have them.

I have a place I can go, my brother's old place is nearby and actually closer to my folks (we could walk to my parents if we wanted to). I talked to my Dad about taking over payments on it. There was a guy renting it who just moved out, but he left some of his stuff and there would be a little work to do to it before the girls and I could move in, but it is doable.

I know everyone says "don't leave the home" but really, is it fair for me to stay when I am the one who caused this? I'm torn, because I don't want to give up on our marriage, but H is suffering so much - he's lost his father, his marriage, his home, and in his view, he's lost his kids - that this is something I can offer him.

And honestly, I just don't want the house without him in it. I know it is the only home the kids have ever known, but for me, I just don't care. Everywhere I look, I see H. All the projects started and then abandoned, dreams that will never be. All the cooking paraphenalia he bought. His clothes. Tools in the garage.

No, moving is not an ideal situation but I am going to trust God will take care of me. Although He didn't take care of me by letting me win the Mega Millions jackpot though(j/k!!!! ). Seriously, though, I got a call yesterday about a possible job, would just be a 1-day class, but picking up some contract work here and there on the side wouldn't be a bad gig. So I think He'll look out for me. Not saying it will be easy, by no means. Change is never easy.

What happened with talking with the Harley's on the radio show?

I think you should hold off on making this big of a decision until you speak to them.

Joyce said they could bring me back on one day next week. I guess I am game for that, but just not very hopeful...I don't think I believe in my heart that even Dr. H himself can help recover our M at this point.

Trying to have hope and trust that everything will work out but I just can't come up with any sort of plan right now to work towards anything.

I can't move right away anyway because there's simply too much to be ironed out, so it's not like I can do it this weekend.

Why would you leave????

Your H is making decisions based on emotions instead of intellect, and now you're starting to do the same thing....
Not a good plan!

There are many people that go through a divorce proceess without either of them moving out.....
No one needs to leave the house at all in this situation! You H just chose too!

My own thoughts are that your H wants to stay gone because he is afraid he will succumb to your desire to rebuild the marriage if he is near you. He cannot resist you, but wants to stay angry... and the only way to do this is avoid contact with you.

I REALLY wish you had called your H everytime you needed to ask him questions rather than the impersonal texting that's going on. You can meet conversation needs only by having conversations......

This would be my intention - the only difference between your H and I is that I asked permission (several times).

I kept "testing the fence." She stood pretty firm that she wasn't letting me out.

Dang woman....

Yeah, he chose to leave the house.

You didn't ask him to.

You didn't expect him to.

You didn't make him.

He's a big boy. He made his choice.

He is choosing to stay angry at you.


One thing that I see through this entire thread is that you are constantly worrying about what you say, what you do, how you feel, what you think.....in context of how its going to make your husband feel.

Guess what?

YOU CAN'T CONTROL HOW HE IS GOING TO FEEL

You can't control how he is going to react to something.

Sure, there are certain things (LB's) that you shouldn't do.

But you can't keep living your life scared to do or say or feel anything and express it to your husband--wherever he might be.

All you do is paralyze yourself and cause yourself undue grief and worry....and its showing, every so much, through your posts.

Don't leave the house. Period. Your girls need stability. You are the most stabilizing thing in their life right now....because you are THERE with them.

From the sounds of it, I would argue that your husband is NOT in a very good emotional state of mind to take care of everything at home that he would be required to take care of should it be just him and your daughters.

Just my 2 cents.

Do me a favour WPG and do not leave the house.

I know what your trying to do but it's not a good idea. You need to be the lighthouse and be steady, calm and graceful so he can find his way back.

When he comes out of this you can explain why you stayed as you needed him to understand what he was going to lose, his home, his family, his wife.

I know it's difficult as you created the mess but you want to show him that you don't want to leave and will continue to fight for the marriage.

Also you need to be at home with your girls to give them the stability they need whilst your husband is grieving.

My father passed away 4 weeks ago, it is tough and traumatic especially someone so close to you. Give him time, be there in any way you can, even if it's a random text to say I love you. Send him some flowers letting him know your sorry for his loss. His anger at his fathers death is being taken out on you, he will know you will take it.

Hugs.

I can agree that he wants to stay angry with/at me, but I have my doubts about the "can't resist me" part. Everyone has always described H as "loyal," and he truly is. He trusted me, maybe never enough to tear down the wall inside him, but he still trusted me and allowed me close enough to hurt him. I've violated his basic beliefs and reopened wounds from childhood, I think that's pretty strong impetus to resisting someone.



I know...but conversation was not high on H's list, just mine. I know it's one of the intimate EN's. He's not much of a talker, his stepmom made the comment she was glad when they ran out of coffee, because he'd actually say something ("We ran out of coffee.")...

I know what you all are saying about staying in the house, but I was thinking maybe it would be an olive branch between us. And since he emailed back that he wanted a divorce I have not made any attempts at contact. He did email a one-liner to say he went by the house to drop off one of the girl's Christmas gifts his mom had forgotten to leave and I didn't respond. The girls are calling him every night and they talk for a few minutes but that's it.

I don't KNOW what to do. I mean, I've thought of things I could do, but what is the difference between what he would see as clingy and desperate vs. genuine love and devotion? Clingy and desperate is not going to appeal to him. I've wondered about posting on the forums, b/c he may still read here even though he quit posting a couple months back, so would it be good for me to stop posting so much?

I even went in his email. I read practically every line in that keylogger file and found his email and password. I wanted to check up on him, part of me I wanted to see if HE'D found anyone else, how stupid is that?? He figured out I must have done it - either saw I'd accessed the drive or read it here on the forum, not sure - and changed his password. And if the IT guy at work tells anyone about the keylogger on my laptop both of us will probably be in big trouble.

I hope Dr. H can give me some advice. I appreciate everyone hanging in here with me...and Rush, you are exactly right, I have "analysis paralysis" right now. Think I am going to call it an early night, I'm just worn out today.

This I would agree with... but...

This, not so much.... Unless he's still a child?? (which he's NOT)



Childhood stuff..... Sorry, but I consider "childhood wounds" to be just..... an excuse!
We are adults now! Please don't go down that path of illogical reasoning that somehow he has an inner child that's hurt and wounded, Sheesh, he's not a child trapped in a big body..... He's a MAN, OK.. Treat him as such! And expect him to act like one as well! (sorry about the rant)

Regression is a common coping mechanism to trauma, grief, and loss.

Not a healthy one, but still common.

WPG,

I do agree with you that the fact that he's staying out of the house, doesn't necessarily means that it's because he "can't resist you", and will succumb to your desires if he does. I'm not saying this to make you feel down, I just don't want you to create high or even any expectations that if he comes back home, he will want to work on the M. My BH succumb to my desires for like a day, after he saw me at the airport. I setup high expectations that day, and guess what, I hit the floor very hard. Now, every one is different, so maybe he'll succumb to your desires after being in contact with you (we'll pray).



You know, it's true what all of the other members are telling you, you should stay in the house. You are a repentant wife, so stop beating yourself. Stay in the house and start giving him ideas of how much you 2 will save under the same roof. Also, how both of you will be able to see the kids everyday, etc. You can always sleep in separate rooms. If he accepts and comes back, with time (and your Plan A), he might be willing to work on the M. You can always sell the house after the D is finalized, if it comes to that point.



See, you are doing it again!!! Right now he just wants to end the M, so really no matter what you say, he'll take it badly (he's foggy, angry, etc right now). You are fighting for your M, concentrate on ACTIONS, he doesn't believe in your word right now. Time heals, take it easy and be patience...., it's still too early for you to be thinking that this is over. Look at my D-Day Jul 2009, I'm not saying that I'll be in a loveless M forever, but for now, I do still believe that my BH needs time to heal.

The other day my BH told me that I should get used to the idea of him being my roommate only, for life!!! And you know what, I do believe that he's serious about it. I just not going to let his mindset AT THE MOMENT ruin my intentions of fighting for my M!!!! Trust me I'm not a strong woman, I'm actually a very dramatic , you wouldn't even believe it.

So for now, stop it, and concentrate on working towards recovery. Hopefully, one day sooner than later you'll be able to stop giving too much thought to every single detail. It will be really hard if you don't. Keep posting, even if he reads it. It's funny that ELC tells me that he doesn't want to work on the M, but still reads every detail that I write on MB,

Have a good night sleep...

And why would he want to stay angry at you?

You know what makes me the angriest? That I still love the person who has dealt me the most painful blow I have ever been dealt in my entire life.

Movie trivia time; ever watch Bruce Almighty?

Do you remember the scene where Jim Carrey is spying on Jennifer Anniston, and she's crying and rocking in her bed praying "God, just help me stop loving him..."

I've been there.

It would be so much less painful - so much easier - if I could just hate her. Or at the minimum, not love her.


He's making the moves he is right now because he wiggled out an escape, and if he can just push you away, if he can just run and not have you there to remind him that there is that little piece of him still totally in love with you, then he can shut it down. He can try to just not care, and maybe then he won't hurt.

Thats exactly it HHH. I worry about you giving him space WPG, because I did some of what your H is doing. If my H had given me space, I would have run. When his serial cheating came out I told him I wanted a D, and I refused to talk to him. He is in Germany so I thought it would be easy to just walk away. He called me 50 times in an hour. When he stopped calling I figured that proved he didnt really want me anyway...till my mom showed up. When he couldnt get me to answer he called her and told her I wasnt answering, so she came running over to check on me. When he called back again I answered and told him that I had told my mom to turn her phone off too.

His reply? "I love you, I am not giving up on our M. Your grandma's number is 555-0000, right?"

He refused to give me a D. He refused to go away. He refused to leave me alone. He fought me every step of the way, he was still foggy on some things, but he was very clear on wanting me and the M. I have no doubt that if I had refused to let him in the house when he gets home that he would have slept outside in the car.

I said I wanted space, and really I did want it, because it would have let me hate him. He didnt give it me, and he kept harrasing me to the point that it was almost funny how hard he was trying.

That's why I stayed. He wouldnt give up. I told him he was being selfish. I told him if he wanted the M he should have thought of that before he messed up. I told him to go and be with one of them instead. I was mean, and I was hateful. He just would NOT go away.

Every time I pushed, he pushed back. Every time he did I was a little more convinced that he wanted the M.

If he had let me run, I would have used it as proof in my mind that he didnt love me.

You are not being evil WPG, you are fighting for your M. Hopefully your H will realize that. I did, it took me awhile, but eventually I did see that what I thought was selfishness was actually a good thing.