Is there any Harley wisdom on this topic? (ML-any clues?)

bxhubby,

This is CGIR - spouse of brokenvase.

My wife did say that she wanted me to take a polygraph test and I knew that I would fail due to my use of trickle truth over the years. Either before or after doing this, I had a fear of her response (her leaving me) upon hearing everything that I did, so I figured I may as well come clean and face the consequences rather than leaving everything up to a machine.

I had always thought, prior to this, that if I was good to her and did not go back to my prior ways, she would see that I did want her and that we would move on.

What I did not understand was that this was not helping her. She would always question why did I do something, why does, what I said, not make sense. This was the reason that she could not move on, get better - which is what I wanted.

I guess that I finally came to the conclusion that if I did love her and want her to get better then I should give her what she had been seeking - the truth and open and honesty going forward.
If the truth were to cause us to divorce, then at least she would be better knowing that she was not to blame, but my selfish behavior was.

I was fearful of telling her the truth for fear of consequences, but also for fear of looking bad, having others (my family) think badly of me, of having to see myself for what I really was.

This is/was selfish behavior - which is what lead me to do what I had done in the past - selfish behavior is what I had to put in the past, especialy if I wanted to get better and ultimately save my marriage.

I'm not sure if this post will help, but I will try and answer questions that you may have as I will follow your thread in the coming days.

Thanks for your post CGIR.

To be honest, I would like to post a lot more, including my own observations and concerns. However, over the next few days, I shall not be posting for fear of causing more damage since FWW seems to be LB'd by my "research" on the forums & I HAVE to address some additional issues we have to deal with right now. (Seems like every time we spoke of or brought up O&H it was a HUGE LB for her).

Regardless, please keep me in mind and when I do post next, I'll be sure to notify you.

It really strikes a cord with me that you say:


With thanks

BH

For her, it's a love buster that you are exploring ways to recovr and improve your marriage?

Ok...

You could read the 4 part Q&A on Honesty here;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5015_qa.html

HHH, thanks for that. We have HNHN (and SAA, FILSIL, LB & access to the radio archives). We've partly gone through all the books together. I dont know-but it seems like we're stuck on DDay #1 all the time. In that, I mean I find it hard to move forward into R with a partner who is unwilling to follow PoRH (who wouldnt? after such a breach of trust). It always seems like a step forward and 2 steps back.
Her idea of recovering and improving the M are worded well by CGIR:


She seems enthusiastic about fulfilling ENs, avoid LBs, follow PoJA and then 'things will be fine/we can move on'. Her version of PoRH is 'selective' to say the least.

She will constantly complain about why I have made honesty so important when there are so many other MB principles to work on. She cant seem to understand that "why would I want to work on R with someone I cannot feel comfortable with (her ideas/thoughts/emotions and history in our M is hidden from me/partially visible to me)" - given that a MAJOR breach of fidelity has happened (more than once) and that complete transparency is the only condition in which I would be willing to 'move forward', anything less is, for me, a HUGE de-motivator to want to make anything work at all.

Am I being unreasonable?

Well, I would tell her;

"I believe that radical honesty is the foundation for all other principals of our marriage. If we have complete, radical honesty then we have a solid foundation of pure basalt. If we do not have complete radical honesty, what we have is a foundation of holey limestone - weak in points and easy to erode what is standing over time. I would like the basalt."

I extended radical honesty first; I told my FWW things from my early childhood that she never know before - dark and or embarrassing events in my own life which I never shared with anyone.

bxhubby,

You mention that your wife is like I was, I'll meet this need, that need and soon he'll see that I am a better person because I am making an attempt to meet his needs.

You need to let her know that all of this work is not helping. If she wants to move on, the first need that has to be met is openness and honesty.

Let her know that she doesn't get to decide what will make you better. You know what is your number one need. You can let her know that you appreciate all of the other things that you are doing but it is coming up short.

I know that you know this, and I hope that someone is able to give you the words that help get this through to her.

Keep posting, look forward to hearing from you in the future.

Bxhubby,

the MB program won't work if you don't apply it in its entirety. You cannot and will not have a good romantic marriage without one of the core principles like PORH. The best you will get is a limping marriage with a wife who amends the rules like she pleases. How open and honest have you yourself been about your own past, present and future plans?
I would also start thinking about that - what will you do when she won't accept your conditions for recovery? Will you just accept it or will you do something, I mean HOW she will know how serious you are about all this? You need a plan for the future.

HHH, I almost jumped up and shouted "THATS EXACTLY WHAT I DID!" (and how bitter I feel when I realise how it was not reciprocated) , not only being O&H and revealing the weakest moments in my life but ensuring she had an "access all areas pass" into anything and everything about me, my past, my feelings, my current thoughts etc... etc.. (hope that answers your question Niitse). No question would ever be left unaddressed. I also hoped that by my openness she would take a cue to start her own... she even mentioned it over the course of these months that a few of my revelations were to her an eye opener about "how open" I wanted us to be.

Niitse, from her point of view, she IS doing the MB program and has not only agreed but has enthusiastically done so. (Which is why the initial question on how 'altered' her mind could be through her own years of deceit) I haven't really been able to formulate a plan for the future except to carry on forward with the MB program. Every other option has fallen on the wayside-sometimes because we're both committed, sometimes because she can convince me of her truthfulness, and sometimes because I would have it no other way for my children (than to have loving parents bring them up together). An incident 2 months ago made her sure that I was ready to end everything if truth was not going to be the only way forward for us, I fear that that incident made her even more reluctant (dug her in deeper) to reveal anything new.

She will claim (as many times before during the trickle truth months) that there is no more she can share, yet I sense (as I had then) that she is holding back. Not only on the story of the A, but also on feelings and thoughts (current and past). I have seen many a vet here tell us (noobs) to trust our gut, specially when you see the 'signs' of gaslighting, of fog babble. 4 times already, my gut has been proved unwaveringly correct.

I remember telling my wife at the start of all of this, that just before DDay #1, it was as if I had just woken up from a dream and suddenly noticed this living person (my wife), this complex, wonderful, mysterious, feeling human being I was married to. I cannot explain the feeling, it was almost as if I suddenly became aware of her for the first time, after so many years. And immediately after that I started suspecting her/snooping on her, I sensed so many things being wrong... which led to the initial discoveries and DDay #1 itself.

Why I state this is to describe not only my crime of neglect and maybe detachment (emotional closeness/intimacy was a thing of the far distant past by then) but also that; from that moment on, I KNEW and in my gut I FELT the A's-before even any of them were brought to light, regardless of how many years/months they were in the past. I now also KNOW/FEEL (the gut) that I still do not have the KEY details. I have, many times, doubted my own sanity (far too suspicious, want there to be more than she tells me, etc...) through this and the forums have helped me greatly in recognising that I am not, in fact, going mad.

Is it possible that her shame is greater than her need to preserve this M?

But of course she is enthusiastic when she does what she pleases. She is enthusiastic about the parts of MB which SUIT her and her current waywardness. She is not truthful to you and MB, but to herself, to her foggy thinking, to be more exact. Waywards want desperately to forget everything and move forward, but it's not working for you as you've already seen. I don't think her mind is somewhat more altered than any other wayward mind, which, in principle, is from another planet. Okay. How about giving her a list of your questions you would like to have answers? It doesn't matter how much she is willing to share. You will just very bluntly say that you need those answers in order to move forward. But - what will you do if she does not answer your questions truthfully and honestly? There is plan B and I think that her behaviour is exactly the kind of behaviour you need to protect yourself and your kids against. They are learning that dishonesty is okay.

I actually do not see ANY shame in your W's actions. It is shameless all over.

I also read from one of your previous posts that telling the kids about their parents' affairs might be life threatening to them. How do you plan to teach your children honesty when you know that you've had affairs?