But he did find out what you did to him and had every reason to be angry. The crime was compounded by lying to him. How do you plan on teaching your daughters right from wrong given your own situation? [/quote]

Melody

He was high on meth/crack cocaine and drunk, please don�t tell me he had every reason to be angry because he doesn�t even know what happened.

Yes he is the victim here, and what I did was wrong without a doubt. It was not moral. Do you want me to call him and apologize?? Or do you want me to call him and remind him of the time that I found him passed out in our daughter�s crib nearly suffocating her to death. Or the time I ended up in the emergency room with a broken foot because he wanted to express his love to me. Or the time he raped me and now ever time I look at my little girl I am reminded of that horrifying night�.. do you want me to continue?!?!?

I was ordered to attend counseling after the divorce, and really spend a lot of hours re-living these situation once before, would love to stop now, so please drop it because you are not helping me with my current situation, you are trying to make me feel guilty about something I did 10 years ago that is not longer an issue. Thank you!!

Yes. That is YOUR SIDE OF THE STREET - YOU are responsible for cleaning up YOUR side of the street. Plain and simple. Take your own inventory and work on fixing that.


All things on HIS side of the street. Worry about cleaning up your own.

YOU control YOU. YOU are responsible for YOUR mistakes. YOU are responsible for making amends for YOUR stuff.

YOUR mistakes, that YOU haven't made amends for ARE relevant to YOU and YOUR situation today. It's a "where ever you go, there you are" situation. Fix YOU. Fix YOUR thoughtlessness.

Mrs. W

Mrs. W

I think I finally get what you were trying to say. Yes, that would be correct we both must participate and follow the POJA and since we made poor choices in the past at some point of time we (or one of us) are going to repeat them. My aha moment of the day!

Thank you, I will keep on trying for now!!

xo,

I'm a Christian, but I sure don't have all the answers. My gut reaction is that adultery remains adultery for always - there is no changing that - I am reminded that Jesus said, "Go and sin no more"...In my mere mortal understanding, your "marriage" isn't a marriage in God's eyes - but I am not God, and I cannot lean only on my own understanding...I don't know what the right answer is. I know that the Bible is full of hope - I know that we must take personal responsibility for all of our choices, and do everything in our power to fix whatever wrongs we commit...I have been wayward, I know that for me, getting out of that mindset was a marathon and not a sprint - I know that my views on many things have changed since my repentance - Things that were not crystal clear to me in the past have been made so - I believe wisdom is truly a gift that God grants us when we repent and follow Him...I wish for you that same blessing...I think it comes when we wholly surrender ourselves to God - with humility - without justification and rationalization - with a genuine desire to do what He commands us to EVEN when that doesn't mean what we believe is "personal happiness" - Something that was truly a profound revelation to me was that God is much less concerned with our happiness than He is with our obedience to Him...

Food for thought...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W, it was my understanding that in very rare instances Dr. Harley has been able to help affairages become successful marriages. There is a story of one in Love Busters, chapter 15, "Restoring Love After Infidelity," about "Dean," who had an affair with his secretary after his wife had a child. He went on to marry his secretary and then when she had a child he had an affair with his new secretary and eventually married her. Eventually after a string of broken marriages and unfortunate abandoned children, Dean created a happy marriage with a woman he had had an affair with.

Dr. Harley has also mentioned a couple of successes on the radio program. He did say that while such situations are sometimes able to create a happy marriage if they will follow his concepts, there are still usually enormously painful long-term consequences, such as children who will have nothing to do with their parents, and the people involved will usually say that they wish that they had never had an affair with the person they are now married to.

Dr. Harley's comment in Love Busters is:


I definitely agree with the advice to contact Dr. Harley's coaching center, because such a situation has all the odds stacked against it and will need all the help it can get.

It's been a long while since I've read HN/HN, Markos, so I didn't remember that story. I was only going on what Dr. Harley has posted on the forums. I stand corrected regarding "no success" then - I should have said "very rarely". I agree with you regarding the Coaching Center, of course - I believe that xo's situation will require 1st hand guidance by the pros.

I still stand by my opinion that this is the wrong venue for affairages to seek help - in front of the victims of adultery - I can't help but liken it to the rapist who gets raped while in prison and then wants help from other rape victims. That is just my opinion - To me it is evidence of the continued thoughtlessness and entitlement of those in affairages to come here for help...*shrug* It's hard for me to see people here doing everything in their power to bust up affairs - it just feels wrong to me to offer advice to those folks and then turn around and offer advice to those trying to save an affair - to me, those situations are best kept separate...Guess I'm just a "hard nose"...

Mrs. W

Dr. Harley's quote sounds pretty similar to that, actually, although he said he was willing to help in a situation where the former spouse(s) no longer wanted to reconcile.

markos,

The Harleys are willing to help those situations in a PRIVATE setting - not in front of a room full of victims.

As I recall, another of their considerations for helping affairages is whether or not there have been children produced as a result of the union.

Mrs. W

I recommend you see Dr. H. You're in an affairage. You had a bad marriage, that was in many ways irreperable. You were emotionally vulnerable to an affair and found solace in the arms of another man. The reality is that that circumstances in which you started your marriage were very unhealthy. You latched onto someone that may be wrong for you and your kids in every way.

What really disturbs me is that you married someone who appears to get upset by the fact that you spend time with your kids or give them more attention than he feels you give him.

So your kids have a situation where dad is gone and is a bad father and then they get a replacement with a man who grudgingly spends time with them and gives you grief over the time you give to your kids.

I can tell you that if I was simply dating and met a woman who for one second gave me grief about the time I spent with my kids I'd dump her like a hot potato. But you didn't have that opportunity because you never dated. You jumped from one marriage and into another one.

If this doesn't work out, which I suspect it won't, I strongly suggest you be alone for a long time and stop bringing more drama into your kids lives.

Focus on them and being a good mom. Everything else will take care of itself.

And yes, you should apologize for your adultery. He might have been an SOB, but an affair is never justified.

What's ironic is that you have projected your own guilt onto your new husband, which, correct me if I'm wrong, still hasn't shown signs that he is having an affair.

I just caught that he went to a call service. That's very disturbing.

Your H had an affair with you while you were married. He sounds like someone who wishes you had no kids and he sounds immature and selfish and like he wasn't ready for marriage.

This is an affairage which had disaster written all over it. You met under bad circumstances, got caught up in a fantasy, and the reality of marriage is something you or him aren't ready for. You have never learned to be alone. You NEEDED a man in your life instead of learning to be alone and to rely on yourself.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, there is likely to be a dropoff in support for your thread. You see, on this forum, we're happy to see affairages end.

You reap what you sow.

That sounds harsh, but it's the truth. My advice to you is to focus on making yourself happy and stop trying to find happyness in someone else.

I understand everyone�s principles regarding the situation and can respect them �we must adjust to an ever changing road�. while holding on to our unchanging principles�, which speaks a lot about ones character. However; I don�t respect the fact that you reject and judge everyone around who has different principles. What does that say about your character?? Does that make you a good Christian when you reject a person in need just because they share different ideas about life??

I come to a forum looking for support and some ideas on how to reconnect with my husband, because a lot has happened and we live together but separate lives, and I get rejected because of my past choices. Instead, I get called an insecure b**** who needs a men in her life to lean on. I get called immoral, without principles/values. Its suggested that I need to leave my current husband and reconnect with an abusive junky. Its suggested that I leave to discover myself and stop brining �drama� into my life. (this one is completely crazy � because that would make me selfish � doing something just for me without considering the kids and their well being � �btw� I already did that now I just want to reconnect with hubby). Its suggested that I leave my current husband because my kids live in a bad environment and are learning immoral principles. Its suggested that I remove my kids from a place that they call home where they are comfortable and content and turn their world upside down. To top it all I get called a bad mother!! You do not have the right to make such judgments.. What kind of Christian does that make you when you make such judgments? I thought its up to God to judge?!? I came here for certain type of help, support, and ideas; I didn�t know that this was going to be a �judgment day�.

Like I said, I respect your religious believes and principles, but I don�t share them and don�t have to live by them. Furthermore, I do feel discriminated against because I don�t. In addition it�s a little sad that people choose not to help others because they share different principles.

x013, but you have a "right" to judge the people here? It is obvious you don't have anything against judgement, you just don't want to be judged for your own adultery. People do have a right and a responsibility to judge that adultery is immoral. Just because you fail in that regard doesn't mean others are obliged to do so. You weren't throwing around bible quotes when you were sneaking around behind your XH's back to conduct your affair; your use of them now seems far too convenient and more than a little hypocritical.

Christians are supposed to judge right from wrong. Our prisons are full of people who cannot judge right from wrong and that is right where they belong. They are dangerous. If you cannot judge that adultery is immoral then that is a character problem that has not served you well.

I know that some here would like to help you, but please understand that coming here to ask for help for your affairage is very galling for many on this forum. I know I would have a serious problem if my XH came here asking for help with his affair.

And as a child who was raised by a cheater, I can just tell you that it is very morally confusing to children to be exposed to affairs. I wonder how your children will feel when they find out some day this OM was instrumental in the break up of their family?

Pay someone for help.

$$$ to the Harley's will get you excellent help and advice.


When you PAY a professional, you have removed the problem involving "choice".

Like it or not, we have a choice when it comes to whom we select to help.
We do not get paid. We make a choice.

Freebie advice should not be spat upon.

I don't believe you've been told to leave your husband. No one here has advocated that you return to a man who is abusive.

Was your adultery justified? No. It never is. Regardless of the circumstances, it is never justified.

What I have said to you is very simply a harsh reality. Why are your kids in the current situation? You didn�t put them first. Was it good to remove them from an abusive father? Yes. Was it good to have an affair and jump right into a dysfunctional marriage? No.

The immature and emotional decisions you�ve made are now biting you. If it was just you, I frankly wouldn�t have ever bothered to post to your thread.

But you do have two kids who are caught in the drama you�ve brought into their lives. Why? Because you were thinking about you, not them.

What should you have done with your past husband? You were right to remove yourself and your kids from that abuse and that situation.

Should you have jumped into an affair? No. You never really got to know the real man you married and were instead caught in a rescue fantasy with a new man, who swept you away from the abusive reality you were living.

You may think these are judgments and that�s fine. By no means do I advocate that you stay with an abusive person. But it doesn�t matter how abusive he was, your adultery was not justified and the fact is that it is your children who have paid the price for the continuous drama you�ve brought into their lives.

Want to save the dysfunctional marriage? Call SH. On this end, what those of us here see is an affairage where two incompatible people got married after beginning a relationship based on lies. Hence, the judgment and thought that you reap what you sow.

So may advice would be to focus on your kids and put them first in EVERY decision you make, to include the men that you bring into their lives.

A person you date should go months before they ever even see your children so that you can figure out who they are and if they are right for you and your kids. You never gave them that chance and you never performed that vetting.

So now you�re married to an emotionally detached man, who is jealous of the time you give your kids, would rather play games than sleep with you, and looks for action on the side from calling services.

How did adultery work out for you?

No, Ma'am, it is not. This has never been suggested. The exact opposite has been said to you MORE THAN ONCE. Please don't blame other people for you reading stuff into what they are saying. You are hearing what you expect to hear instead of actually reading closely.

There are people here who will help you if you want to do a good job of listening. And there is the absolutely peerless Marriage Builders Coaching center that can help you. I encourage you to continue to seek help. Don't use the opinions of some as an excuse to not get help, and especially don't use your own misconceptions of those opinions.

People are not saying what you are hearing them say. Nobody is telling you you have to go back to an abusive husband. Nobody.

Immoral doesn�t necessarily make it illegal, if it did I should be in jail for my immoral choice.

I did own my affair and I am the one who has to live with it and will be judged for it by God not the society. I have asked God�s forgiveness, you and nobody else on this forum has to forgive me or has the right to judge me. Christians are not to judge right from wrong, who give you that right Melody??? They are to know the difference.

People in prisons, its not that they can�t judge right from wrong, they just simply don�t know the difference.

xo, you can't be helped as long as you are talking more than listening. Do you want help to straighten out your mess and make your life better, or do you want to be right and win and straighten everybody else out?

"let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (James 1:19)

You can't control what other people say to you, but you can decide that you want to follow this sound advice from the Bible. Or not.

I think you assumed that I left my husband and just married this guy�

I slept with this guy while in a process of leaving my marriage. A month later I was ALONE with kids, divorce was final six months later. I continued the affair the whole time before the divorce was final. If that makes me immoral and a bad mom, so be it.

After that I went to counseling, enrolled in school, and focused on my job and kids. Yes I would continue to sleep with the guy, but it was physical. After about a year from the divorce date he asked me to dinner and after discussing the situation with my counselor I said yes. We dated and got married and moved in together. I continued school. We build a beautiful home together. He was busy with starting his business. Today we live separate lives for various reasons and things are complicated but we do want to reconnect.

I don�t judge his choices to go to the online places, not my place. I am hurt by them, but I need to own my part in it. He never said that I spend too much time with my kids. I said that based on comments and advise from her, so for you to judge and say that he is immature, well I am so sure what that makes you. You don�t know him, you have not heard his side of the story, how can you make such assumption about a person you have never had a conversation with?

Ma'am, hearing what you need to hear is NOT going to feel GOOD. Know what I mean? If you keep reacting to what you feel instead of paying very, very close attention to what you are hearing, you are going to keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself to live in. Nobody else here will be affected by that. Just you.

There is help here for people who want to LISTEN. If you hear something you don't like, it's probably best if you just keep it to yourself. Take what you like and ignore the rest. You'll never fix everybody else. You can't even fix yourself, yet, right?

maros�. You are absolutely correct!!

�Speech is Silver � Silence is Gold�