I am struck by how often seemingly good decent men are stuck in sexless or near sexless marriages. It got me to wondering if there are men on here who are unhappy about any of the other ENs in their marriage.

It all seems to be about sex or lack of it. Which begs the question---why don't these women just stop denying their husbands a basic need of marriage!!!! I know some on here, like Hold, have told their wives FOR YEARS that they are not happy with the lack of sex.

I just don't get it. I was married to a jerk for 26 years and didn't deny him....and now that I am with someone who is good to me and loves me....I can't imagine ever refusing him when I know it means so much too him. Maybe in some cases there is sexual aversion going on....I don't know. But I know it makes me SOOOOOO happy to make my husband happy.

Bubbles seems to think they are just selfish manipulative women...maybe it is as simple as that.

So anyway, unhappy men....are there any of you out there whose chief complain is something other than lack of SF in your marriage?

SW, we have some here who have been coming here for YEARS talking about conflict resolution who have never used this program or have used unqualified, uncertified counselors and called it good. But they have never availed themselves of this program.

While there are no guarantees, it is a guarantee of a bad marriage if you don't actually use the program. There are endless discussions about "POJA" and "need meetin'" but rarely any discussion of creating romantic love.

And that is one of the conditions that makes a woman WANT to have sex with her husband. She must a) feel emotionally attached and b) have the prospect of enjoyment.

Those conditions can be met if SHE IS IN LOVE. But she won't fall in love if the couple does not use this program and instead comes here and makes endless posts about everything BUT falling in love.

Talking a problem to death never resolves the problem. It takes action.

In other words, the biggest problem as far as I see it, is not necessarily selfish manipulative women, but couples who don't use the program.

The couples on this website who actually used the program don't have sexual problems, btw.

It's not from Dr. Harley, but I found this observation from Dr Juli Slattery at Focus on the Family interesting http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/sex_and_intimacy/understanding-your-husbands-sexual-needs/so-whats-the-holdup.aspx:

She doesn't give a lot of detail in how she comes to this conclusion. It's just interesting.

She doesn't give a lot of detail in how she comes to this conclusion. It's just interesting.

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That is because most women have been brainwashed to believe that men's needs are shallow. I actually BURST OUT LAUGHING when our MB counselor "admitted" that SEX was a top need for men in marriage. I LAUGHED because I couldn't believe he would admit being so shallow.

SW, your reaction to a man's needs for sex, I think, is somewhat rare. I was raised by bella abzug in combat boots [from the "heady old days of the 60s" ] who taught me that men are shallow and silly.

This program teaches us otherwise.

An interesting quote by Dr Harley from the weekend forum yesterday:

She doesn't give a lot of detail in how she comes to this conclusion. It's just interesting.[/quote]

It just seems too easy to me. My dh is not a simple man. But when it comes to what makes him happy on a day to day basis....he wants sex WITH ME. His wife--whom he loves. If he is given the choice to get up and eat breakfast or stay in bed with me and have SF--guess which one wins everytime?

Now, he has other needs. He likes a clean house and food in the house. He likes finances in order. He nearly falls over in gratitude that I keep his laundry done. There are things. We discussed them in great detail before we married. I have no intention of finding out but I strongly suspect that it would not matter how perfectly I performed all my other wifely duties--if I cut him off he will be unhappy! It is not rocket science!

ML, I consider that a great compliment. Thank you. I was raised by a single mom who had pulled herself out of a terrible marriage with a abusive alcoholic. She also stayed celibate for the next 28 years until she married my step dad. And yet she taught me about men and women and the role each plays in marriage. I remember her expressing disgust when a cousin of mine joked about controlling her husband with sex--by cutting him off.

Btw, she taught me about marriage from a scriptural standpoint which is not at odds with MB.

It really baffles me that couples can go without sex. However, I've had one partner (my husband) and I believe he's the best lover in the world, maybe I'm just lucky? Or weird? Or strange?

He told me on our third or fourth date that sex was not a weapon we'd ever use and he didn't believe in makeup sex. I don't believe I've ever cut him off.

I love him and the SF is so important to the relationship in general.

When I was married to my XH I didn't refuse him. There were times I enjoyed it more than others...and a few times after he would be unkind to me that I hated it. And yet I felt it was important to continue that part of our relationship if we EVER hoped to stay married. Now that I am in a loving GOOD marriage I can see how wonderful SF can be. It is incredibly bonding.

He was married to a woman who denied him often and then ended up cheating on him. He actually thanked me recently for not rushing him! We are so lucky to have each other...and I just think what a shame it is that all these good men on these boards have such sexless marriages.

I think it's a shame for all involved, too.

The emotion and passion is incredible and the bonding is so great.

Well, when our marriage went down the drain, we were down to once every two months or so-and our norm is roughly 2-3 times a week.

When my husband was actively acting out, NO ONE's needs were being met.

I can't just lie there and "let" my husband have sex with me. I tried to fake it once, and, frankly I felt awful. (On the other coin, I don't get how women can fake intimacy and orgasms, for that matter. I mean, I tried it once and I felt like a prostitute, incredibly used.)

Thankfully, my husband would prefer for me to have sex with him because I love him and feel safe with him.

So, I'd offer that all of us women are not like you who can make yourself available to a partner who is not fulfilling their emotional needs. I couldn't live with myself if I did.

What I've learned from this site is there is no straight forward answer. I'm always shocked from what some men have written here about their wives and the things they do or don't do to avoid SF. Even in some of the marriages it seems the woman is emotionally connected to the husband but still refuses to have SF. I remember one guy writing that after the couple had a session with Harley the wife was supposed to put on lingerie to initiate. She puts on the lingerie and then denies the husband SF. I can't even comprehend it.

Gg

Oh please. You couldn't live with yourself if you had sex with your husband while he isn't meeting your needs? Shrug. I couldn't live with myself if I DIDN'T.

My XH turned out to be a seriel cheater....but at least I know that I did all I could in that area.

Yes. This. I just don't get it.

SW, this is not completely true, not from what you posted when you first came here. You said your WXH wanted certain sexual things from you and you DID deny him. I'm not saying that you should have done it, but you ought not be on here tsk-tsking women who don't want to have sex with their husbands when you yourself refused to give your ex the sex HE wanted.

*deleted*

The key is to seek MUTUAL SATISFACTION by overcoming whatever problems are preventing a great sex life.

c) the woman must understand and accept that SF is a valid need.

I am not following how SmilingWoman is showing a "lack of empathy" by pointing out the lack of empathy of some women. Clearly, some women who are withholding sex from their husbands are demonstrating a very cruel lack of empathy for their husbands.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying she should just have sex even though she is disgusted, disconnected, or whatever, but that she should be actively seeking to REMOVE her aversion, whatever the cause, in order to achieve a mutually satisfying sexual relationship.

I am one of the women who ruined my last marriage by selfishly and thoughtlessly withholding sex from my H. And why did I do that? I had fallen out of love. I should have been honest with him about that and taken steps to change that. But I didn't do that.