(((WPG)))

Don't know how long you can pull this off... just make sure you don't threaten your own health in the process - mental or physical.

WPG,

I am still praying for you. Just haven't had much to offer. Please make sure that your current "arrangement" isn't withdrawling too many love units and causing resentment. It would be sooooo hard to come back from that.

Whatever happens please know that you tried. Sure you messed up big time but you are doing the right thing now and have owned up to your mistakes. That is all that God asks of us so who can ask more?

, WPG.

You're slowly moving down this post-A road. A lot of your sentiments remind me so much of my own thoughts/experience. The letting go of expectations/control thing was huge for me - a welcome and unwelcome change.

I don't really have any advice other than to advise you to keep watching your side of the street, so to speak. You're making it through this, and hopefully, eventually, your BH will get to experience your growth and development firsthand.

Thank you for the hugs...I guess it just helps to have a place to vent and people who are going through/have been through infidelity.



savemymarr, I wish only the best for you and your WW. Hopefully she will have that epiphany, and realize what she is losing before she loses everything. I had to kinda laugh at myself, though, because I definitely don't feel I have any strength or insight, but thanks for the compliment!

And I wish I had that sense that H will "come around." I am beginning to believe - if I haven't quite accepted it yet - that he never will. I spent part of the day reading his old thread - he hasn't been back here to post since November. The depth of his pain because of what I did, his view that I am evil, the thoughts that he had/has...I realized that no matter what I did, I couldn't make a difference to that. That transparency, EP's, a polygraph, the email to OMW, finally telling the truth to his family, all the things I said/did/put into place, none of it made a difference. I tried everything I could possibly think of, anything that I felt he had the slightest need for, and none of it made a difference.

In other words, no control.

I can control my side of the street, as you put it, Mrs_V, and I am. It's funny, I never would have thought twice about it before, but one of the guys I work with stuck his head in my office the other day and asked if I wanted to ride w/him to grab some lunch. I said no thanks without any hesitation, ended up going home for lunch which is a practice I started during R.

I did go ahead and put the new bedspread on the bed in the MBR. I ordered it right after Christmas, before H "officially" left, anyway, and I'd been talking about changing the color scheme forever but hadn't gotten around to it. I like it. And H did sort of do a double take when he came to meet me for the evening's NSA session. Unfortunately the double take was at the bedspread and not me, ha ha.

But yeah, I think I am coming to a point where I may have to try something else for my own sanity. I love him, but even letting go of the expectations, the LB$ still takes hits. And I could see there could come a point where my LB$ is as drained as I drained his, and then what? What if that point is finally when H decides he wants our M?

I hate what I did. I hate who I was. I will regret my A for the rest of my life. But I can't take it back or make it magically vanish. I will always regret losing H, losing his love, losing my M, realizing truly how much it all meant to me only after I destroyed everything. And yeah, I did say "losing H," because I need to face it, I have lost him. It has happened.

I would be very careful with this, WPG. IMVHO, there is a fine line between this kind of activity helping (e.g., hearing firsthand, unedited how much pain your betrayal caused) and hurting (e.g., your LB$ taking massive hits to see yourself viewed in such negative light, called such negative things -- even if it's true, your self-esteem and LB$ can only take so many hits like that). I would view this as falling into Dr. H's advice to not bring up the A (once it's been hashed out with radical honesty, etc.).


I understand exactly where you're coming from with this, but think of it this way: these actions were the right thing to do, and your continuance of them, (e.g., transparency, EPs), is still the right thing to do. It may sound callous, but it doesn't matter if these actions didn't "get" your BH "back" -- they are giving you your integrity back. What's the point people always make on here? You can't control his actions, so focus on doing things for the right reasons and not for what you want him to do. Much easier said than done, I know.




Yeah, no advice here. Not sure what to recommend re: the NSA EN-meeting.


Another difficult realization. A few thoughts come to mind: this is partially a good thing, in that it liberates you from the obsessive, emotional, frenetic hamster wheel -- if I do this, then he'll do that; what did he mean by this?; oh no, how is he going to interpret that?; etc., etc., etc. It helps in the process of relinquishing control, and it helps you focus and make more positive strides in your recovery, IMO. Be careful, though, that you don't withdraw and detach - you'll have to find a balance of love, hope, and protection of your LB$, along with maintenance of O&H, EPs, etc.

That's all I've got for now. Did I mention hope?

Hey WPG,

I can tell you that you and I have similar situations about certain things that are happening. Since I gave up my expectation/control he has been wanting more SF (back to what we were having pre affair and sometimes even more, took me by surprise). He too wants a NSA. Seems like one of the few things that we "bond" on. That is how our relationship started, it was purely NSA for a while for the both of us. So who knows right?

Don't focus on things you don't have control over. You can't control the thoughts and feelings of your husband. But you can control your own emotions and thoughts. Don't be so hard on yourself, if you have learned the mistakes you've made that is good. You have learned to keep males at a safe distance which you showed by turning a ride down from a male coworker. We all make mistakes, maybe sometimes worse than others. But if you learn something from it and prevent it from happening again then that is something, a silver lining.

Stop focusing on what you were thinking then, because honestly, from what I know of myself, I wasn't thinking and was in a temporary fog. (i was in such a bad fog that i thought to myself if BH was having sex with another woman it would be okay cause I was doing it!...I can tell you that I don't think that now) You can't change that moment or go back and tell your old self, stop you will damage to your marriage. There are so many could have /should have that would have prevented all of this. But you can't change it!

Your husband sounds like mine, has little words to respond to what I have to say as well. he says he doesn't feel as close to me because he doesn't trust me anymore, so to even open up with his true thoughts and feelings are difficult especially to someone that hurt them badly. Just be patient and let him know you are there for him if he needs to talk, etc. That you aren't giving up on him or the relationship, just that you are waiting for him to come back.

You can feel hurt and angry that he hasn't come back and that he left. You do love him after all. It's a sign that you still care. It's not easy though. Just be as positive as you can but don't pretend...sounds confusing...

Just take care of yourself and your kids. I will keep you in my thoughts and hope that you husband will see that you guys can work it out despite this set back.

(((Hugs))

Sorry I don't have anything useful that would fix everything. Just be strong and see that you are making positive changes.

@Mrs_V - About reading H's thread, you are right, it probably wasn't a good idea. By the time I left work to go home, I was a wreck. My self-esteem is on shaky ground now to begin with after all of this, but last night it was in the toilet.

I've thought about therapy, but quite honestly wonder, what's the point? I mean, it's an additional expense I can't afford (after receiving an email from H last night telling me his debits to remove from the bank account and also that he needed $400 so he could pay half of his stepmom's rent and utilities, I spent part of last night trying to cut expenses, so with the expenses of 2 households I know I can't afford therapy). Secondly, people can tell me until they are blue in the face to stop beating myself up, but until I believe it, it is only words.

@LL123 - Thank you for your positive words and support! I appreciate you reaching out despite you being in a tough situation yourself. I've been reading the responses to the questions you've been posting and you've gotten a lot of really good responses - they have been helpful to me as well.

Anyway, here's my dilemma and where I'd like some input from some of the MB vets...I am starting to think that it may be better for me to have no contact with H. I don't think I can continue the NSA SF. It's killing a part of me. The only communication he has w/me deals with finances and kids. When I worked with Dr. Chalmers in the fall, her advice was to talk to her before I entered into a Plan B. I just can't afford the $200 right now. I know I also need to speak to an attorney - but again, funds are tight. I know we're in a completely backwards situation, as even Dr. H said on the radio show, so it's not typical for a FWW to consider Plan B (from reading the threads, Harmony is the only other FWW that I've seen go to Plan B, and her H is currently a WH, unlike mine, at least that I know of). But I am to the point that every one of his emails is making withdrawals from my LB$. I feel worse after having SF with him - even though I want it, more than anything I want that intimacy with him...I guess it is just the realization that it is a false intimacy. I'm afraid that if I don't do something to protect my LB$, that if he ever decides he wants our M, that by the time he does, I won't have any love left.

So, should I begin preparing for a Plan B, or should I continue with Plan A? Obviously if Plan B is in order, I'd continue Plan A'ing until that point, but...if Plan B is the wrong course of action, then what? Do I continue to stay in the home, take care of the finances for him, have sex w/him when he wants it, continue with the occasional cards/gifts/letters, etc?

I know I'm the FWW, and I hope this is not coming across as selfishness on my part. I know I'm the one who destroyed our M. I know I am at fault. I know I can't fix this, I can't control H, I can't control the outcome. But I can control myself, and I can try to protect myself and the love I still have for H. When marital recovery seems like a long shot at best, what is the best way for me to address personal recovery?

I think this right here answers your own question.

You are addressing that; his behaviors are withdrawing LB$ units, that your goal is reconciliation/recovery, and the reality that if your LB$ is emptied, you won't have any love left for him.

If Plan B is the answer, then a well written Plan B letter is the right start, and radical honesty about the previously mentioned things in that letter is key.

You're missing the obvious....

Just sit down with your H and discuss this issue with "Radical Honesty". You're both grown adults here.... O&H Communication!

Plan B, in this case, would be a direct route to Plan D... If that's you're goal, then just skip Plan B and go amicably to Plan D...

Look, SF is what's draining the LB.... Then tell H, and then move on meeting any other needs he will allow you to meet.

...... But for God's sake and for your own.... START being honest, without lovebusting your H in the process!

He just wants you to respect him! The only way you have available to demonstrate this respect, is by being Radically Honest, OK!

You already know my position that Plan B is the wrong choice in your situation, but I wanted to address the SF issue a little more.

From where I sit..... SF alone is not really the issue.

I'm sure you'd be thrilled with SF if your H were willing to move back home.
I'm sure you'd be thrilled with SF if your H were willing to work on the marriage again.
I'm sure you'd be thrilled with SF if your H were willing go out on a date with you.
I'm sure you'd be thrilled with SF if your H were willing to ______________ (fill in the blank)

I think you see what I mean....

It's that darned second word that's causing you to have your love bank depleted....

You know....

It's that silly FULFILLMENT word!

You are not being fulfilled in any way by the act of sex alone.

Imagine that! (sarcasm there)

The only way I know of to solve that fulfillment issue for you, is, to....

.

.

.

.

Be honest about this with your H!

@WPG -

Sorry I've missed a lot, but what plan are you in?

How long have you been in it?

Why is BS not living in marital home?

Clark, Your best bet is always to read the entire thread. There has been a great deal of information shared on WPG's thread.

WPG:

You do not have to make your decision today.

Plan B
Plan D
Plan Whatever.

The decision that you have to make today, is the one that TST is talking about.

Just be honest with your H.

You can't have NSA SF with him. There are to many strings. And you are NOT a piece of meat.
If the hurt that he has recieved is too much, than he can make a choice as well. And he should. It is respectful to you and to your children.
He has made a choice. He moved out. 30 days ago. And he was back to NSA SF with you within 20 days.

He misses you. He can't help himself. He can be away, but he can't STAY away.

So, a little honesty from him would be nice.

You do not have to make a choice today.

Choose to NOT be abused.

That should help you.

LG

Hiya WPG

Your doing well girl you really are.

Don't forget your going through a major trauma with your H moving out, and your coping just fine, so pat on the back.



As you know I am no VET, but I can offer you some thoughts.

Your H is different to mine in that he is not a WH.

However, I feel that it is time for you to do a 'mocha Plan B'.

Steve Harley 'massaged' Plan B in my instance as I was a FWW.

I do not think you should have NSA with your H, he will lose respect for you and more importantly, it causes you distress.

I know I have been there and looking back, I did it for the same reasons as you, wrong.

I think you need to put a GREAT Plan B 'love letter' together.

You need to tell him of your love for him, but how you cannot cope with being appart, and him walking in and out of your life is tearing you appart. That when he is open to the idea of working towards recovery you will be there with open arms. Until then you will not have contact with him.

THEN.

You keep your side of the street clean (because he will check on your due to your past record to make sure you are not upto 'old tricks).

You need to be prepared for his actions.

Then you work, on your personal recovery.

Personal recovery being the best mother, daughter, friend, colleague you can possibly be.

You also need to get right the 'mocha' version of Plan B.

I believe your H right now is working through - do I start afresh with someone new who has not cheated, or do I rebuild my marriage with my wife? That hurts right?

Also, subtley he needs to get a taste of the wonderful woman you are, and what he will be missing out on.

If you love him, you need to let him go, let him work through it. Tough Love, read it. In fact I have copy and will happily send it you if you want it.

Let me know your thoughts.

i've read your thread from the first page.

****edit******

Oh and personal recovery also means, knowing yourself, and your boundaries and ignoring way off the mark posters!!

Jeez just reread hereisme post, please ignore that WPG.

Harmony 2010.... respectfully asking you to go back and pull up the links in this thread to Dr. Harleys radio programs, where WPG was a guest on two different occasions. Dr. Harley did NOT recommend any plan other than a Quasi Plan A.

For a former wayward to Plan B, as you're suggesting, would be destructive to her BH, who, BTW, is still processing the grief (shock, denial, anger, bargaining and acceptance) that exists only because of everything WPG did by betraying him.

Plan B is a plan designed to protect a spouse from destructive, harmful behaviors such as Alcohol abuse, drug abuse, physical abuse and adultery.

A marriage with none of these abuses occuring can continue indefinitly.

A Betrayed Spouse being unsure if they can handle returing to a marriage where they were betrayed... is NOT abuse.

I'm only repeating what Dr. Harley said on the programs when WPG was a guest. Please take the time to listen for yourself.

Hi Papabear

Yes I do take your point and it is a difficult one. As always the best course of action here is to listen to the Harleys.

I have listened to the show, when it was first broadcasted. They said remain in Plan A, so I totally see where you are coming from.

I always point out, as I have done in my recent post that I am no expert, as I would rather the poster take the 'experts' which gives them the best results.

I just think WPG needs to back off from WH and give him his space and get on with her life without him. I believe he wants and needs this space to figure things out and deal with his grief. Hopefully he will then be able to realise, the depth of his love for her and work out if he can return to the marriage where he was betrayed.

I just think from my experience when my H was in withdrawal (as is WPG H) due to my affair, that nothing I could have said or done would have made it better until he experienced life without me and time to figure things out on his own.

I do think its abusive of him to want NSA SF with her, when he has moved out the house and is separated from her.

Steve Harley always called my situation a 'mocha' plan B, because I was a FWW.

Again, these are just my thoughts.

I have done a lot of reading of old threads, such as Dorrys and many others who were FWW, and in many of those situations the BS left the home to figure things out on there own.

I think maybe to find out many things..eg....

1. To see if they can live without the FWW and to show the FWW they can.
2. To see what life is like without the FWW.
3. To remove themselves from the 'stress' of the situation.
4. To see if there is anything else 'better' out there (sorry WPG)
5. To work out if they can return to a marriage where they were betrayed.
6. To take out an element of anger on the FWW.