The "fight" that you had. How did it follow the MB plans for recovery after an affair and how is it helping you save your marriage? What positive effect did it have on your situation? Did you follow the rule of care?

And my earlier post was a failed attempt to get you to stop feeling sorry for yourself and to look at things a different way.

Do you really want to be happy in your marriage? Wouldn't that be the best outcome for ALL involved?

writer~ Actually, I started tonight's conversation aka HUGE FIGHT, by saying I think we have two choices-- 1. Work on things to make a better M. or 2. Divorce, because NO, I don't want to live in a miserable M too much longer.

His answer was-- YOU have to work on it. YOU are the one that needs to make the first move-- first several moves to prove you're serious, because our bad marriage is 90% fault, you checked out at least a year ago, and you have to check back in AND FIX IT YOURSELF-- FIX *YOURSELF*. (paraphrasing)

I responded with-- The problem is that I am at the point that I DON'T want to work on it, HOWEVER, I AM WILLING to work on it, if YOU WILL TOO. I said if you don't help, then we are screwed, because if left up to JUST me, it's not gonna happen.

That's when we got to the topic of him saying he won't divorce me, nor would he consent if I filed, because he's not letting me take his 27 years of hard earned money. He said he KNOWS women like me that take their husbands for everything. He said he would permanently separate but not D. I asked what he'd do if he wanted to remarry. He said that will never happen, that I ruined that for him too.

Scotland~

I started the conversation TAlKING calmly and in a normal, quiet voice. HIS first sentence was YELLING, and stayed THERE.

I probably was supposed to stop then, right? I've done that before, and then he hassles for me for suddenly being mute, when it suits me. I can't win.

Look, I'm obviously not an expert, or I wouldn't be here.... again.

Yes, I want to have a happy marriage. Being in a miserable one is mentally, emotionally, and even physically exhausting and painful.

I am just so skeptical.

I can't envision ever being happy with him, or him with me.

AD, make an appointment with Steve Harley. Steve will tell you how to bring him on board. We have seen much worse than this turned around into a romantic marriage. When do it yourself doesn't work, its time to change the game. This really does work, but you have to work it.

I apologize for all the typos and skipped words. I'm usually better about that.

Hey there. I had my first session with Harley a couple of days ago. I highly recommend it as he gives you a lot of useful information and steps on recovering a marriage/love. As well, he can give you ideas on to approach your husband, your options, etc. He gave me a lot of think about and I just recently sent a letter to my husband to work on my first task. We'll see how that goes:)

So I would book your appointment ASAP (now I wish I had done it sooner!)

Mel~

Because you seem to know a lot about a lot of different topics....

We are on a high deductible health insurance plan, but have a nice chunk of cash saved up in our HSA, (health savings account). Do you or anyone else here know if Harley's counseling would qualify as the kind of counseling that we could use those funds on, without being slammed by the 20% penalties, Mr. Obama has now imposed? I used to know the rules, and I know I could use that money for Harley's, and even if I had to pay a penalty, it was only 10%. Just wondering....

AD, I don't know. Sorry..

What are SDs?


Ultimatum? I thought an ultimatum is like a threat ie you do this, or else. I was thought I was just stating the obvious 2 options left to us, because we've both pretty much determined we don't want to live much longer in a miserable marriage.

Yes, 27yearsoffreakingnonstopscorekeeping. We need a referee.

.... we needed a referee 26.5 years ago actually.

You know what's awesome?

He gave you the chance to fire the first shot; "You lead the way!"

Anyway - check with your insurer/employer - a lot of them do pay for "MC" and this should qualify. Healthy marriages make healthy people.

This is my advice as well. Again, DITTO Mel.

What are SD's?

Yes, wanting it is key.

Also, not sure where to begin.... you really think I need counseling with Steve Harley, or is an email to the radio show sufficient? Or, can I just read the books and/or principles again and just try to implement?

I hate having to be the one who has to be nice first, when he probably likes me marginally better than I like him, but I do see that SOMEONE has to bend here. I just wish I knew that if I'm nice, he'll start being nice back.

He was saying last night that I've NEVER been nice, that I don't have it in me or something like that, but I told him, that is simply not true-- I respond in kind to how I am treated, (which I know isn't right either because then it becomes tit-for-tat, which is our relationship in a nutshell, but he's implying I'm not even kind when he's consistently kind, but that's not true, though I can't remember the last time either of us were consistently kind-- I guess those months after d-day?).

I am not the kind of person who is mean when someone is nice.... YES, if they sneak in a nice moment, (like the kiss gesture), in between the not nice stuff, [ie. when he got home earlier that night from being gone 2 weeks- the first thing from his mouth was a complaint about how it looked like we lived in North Dakota, because I hadn't shoveled the snow lately], then yeah, it's hard to respond sweetly. I see the supposedly nice things he does like the kiss gesture, as kind of a taunt, or a test to see what I'll do, to prove I'm a jerk, and not really from the heart, because just moments before, he wasn't nice.

I don't know... my head is spinning, and it's all confusing to me....

"Nice" is for school kids.

Adults practice humility and grace and empathy.

Would you like to show your child what a humble, empathetic, grace-filled mother she has?

"nice" <~~~ grow up Autumn.

Where is your soul and your integrity in this effort to restore your family?

AD

SD's = Selfish Demands

nESRE

AD,

You are not disappoint me or us. The purpose of a discussion board on a marriage building site is to discuss serious, hard issues, not the color of the wall paper in the dining room.

My only hope is that by coming here you can get some help, guidance, and insight into your situation.

God Bless,

JL

SDs are selfish demands.

Here's something simple to try (while you are re-learning and re-reading all the materials), challenge each other to take the words NEVER, EVER and ALWAYS out of your vocabulary when you have a discussion. My husband and I have started doing this and it really makes us have to rethink how we say things to each other. Is it really NEVER, EVER or ALWAYS? Usually not.

Grow up!


Good grief. Autumn, then ask him how you can CHANGE to be nicer. Stop arguing about it and start changing. That is the starting place.


A complaint is an irritation in a bad marriage, an opportunity for improvement in a good marriage. You could have said, "yes, you are right, I have not shoveled the snow lately and I am sorry. To be honest I don't like to shovel snow and wondered how you would feel if we hired Joe Blow to shovel it?" <-----don't do this NOW, but this is how you might handle it in the future when you learn to use POJA.

So now you know that it irritates him to see snow piled up and can take steps to remove that irritation.

Which leads me to the next GLARING PROBLEM I see here. He was out of town for 2 weeks?? NO WONDER YOU FIGHT! Does he have a traveling job? If so, that is a disaster that will make it impossible to fall in love.

AD, please take this from someone who KNOWS where you are coming from. Those words he uses against are weapons in his arsenal to protect himself from being further hurt. You two are so disconnected and hurt, that you use words as protection from more. I KNOW. I DO THAT myself. Does it help? No. Do I feel better for it? For a few moments, maybe.

So why no try to change the cycle. YOU stop participating in this dance the two of you have created. YOU step back, bite your tongue and be kind to him. They say love is an action word. Well even if you don't feel love for him, BE loving and kind toward him. If he attacks, don't participate. This has to stop somewhere!