NESRE,

I've got a suggestion as well,

Your DD will be free to make her own decisions on her life when she turns 18, of course 18 or not if she expects support from you then she'll have to meet your rule demands, house, conduct ect.

I fear by the time you get the custody worked out it will be for 3 months of time before the DD turns 18.

I wouldn't go thru the trouble

I'd just do my best to connect with the DD.

I agree with Pep on the Birth control as well

Sure hope your mess gets better, I continue to pray for you and your family

SC

Nesre, this must be all so painful to be part of. My heart goes out to you and I will say the prayer you asked for.

Make your Plan B very specific. What exactly are your expectations? Make them very clear to WW. Do this for you, don't give yourself a path to get sucked back into the drama. [I don't think it's a true Plan B, but it's definitely some boundary setting that is necessary for you to recover from the crazyness]

Just a suggestion, but you're right, I have no real idea what you must be going through.

Opt

Been a long time so I thought I would update.

Been busy at work like always in the summer so I have not had much of a chance to post or even read.

Where I'm at now.
On Sunday Aug 1 I just walked through the door of my home and announced Lucy Im home.
This whole deal is so Fd up.

My DD16 moved back out to the house about 3 weeks ago. I'm not gonna let her be out there by herself. Three weeks ago she hated Baldo and couldn't stand his guts and all at once she has made peace with him. She let what I thought were good friends go she had made and went back to the old. My DD and Baldos DD were friends before the A became known. When the A became known then she stayed away. DD has been messing with alcohol and pot in the past and has attended NA up until two months ago. Mom didn't keep her away from Baldo and now its easier to use. Its hard to use around me so I understand why she would be drawn or want to be around people who just accept it. Even promote it. It is the way of life. Everything is planned around use.
I think it came down to WW agreeing with DD "I wont tell on you if you dont tell on me" (TO DAD) type of attitude. I feel my DD threw me under the bus. DD is staying way away from me and it appears everything goes through MOM
WW is exactly that immature.

Stated before I moved home unannounced. Much personal growth has happened. I was fully aware the A is still on going.
Number one is I am not going to stand by and be abused her any longer. I have already demamded she stop the A.

I am only back to make sure DD is OK. This is not about M reconciliation. Plan A does not work with a using Alcoholic.

I'm stating truth with my beliefs calmly, firmly and without apology.
EX-This is my home also. If you don't like it leave.

The A has and is so far entrenched in secrecy even now when obvious things happen. She still is in denial and fog.

Guilt and shame buttons from my long ago past have been disabled.
Thank you PM for the advice some three years ago ....God/.AA/church/counseling/family/good relationships. For the first time in a long time I finally know and believe I am a good person.

Thanks AlcoholicWife-Letting that part which I have no control over (alcoholism) go and taking action over the part I am able to.(M)

Asking for help and accepting help when I need it from family and friends.

Finances are finally fully seperated. I paid everything up until a month ago.

I let WW know any marital items used to support the A or her alcoholism would be disabled or gone.

The 2009 Elantra is safe and parked. She got to the point where she mainly walked for her supply but slipped in going to buy beer the next morning. She shouldn' t have even been driving then. Still drunk from the nght before.

WW is caught in the same cycle as when I left. This took her totally by surprise. I am not delusional about what I was walking back into. Im now sure she has not just walked away with this scumbag POS in the past b/c I was too good of an enabler. To bad for WW that guy is gone.

Again I know this is not exactly typical MB's. stuff. I have an appointment set for Thursday morning to start the D. Its time. I really felt I needed to D her from MY-OUR home. I struggled with leaving even before DD and I got the apt. It never was right that we should have to leave. A part of me needs to proceed with me living in that home right up to the end.

Try to post more later.

Nesre

Wow Nesre, that took a lot of courage after all the crapola she's put you through. It is definitely time to see an attorney and actually get the ball rolling on a divorce. You should be able to get her out of the M home, especially because of your DD. Yes, your DD is 16 and by time the D is final, she probably will be 18, HOWEVER, you can get a TRO to get your WW out of the home for the duration. What your DD decides when she turns 18 is on her. I believe you stand a better chance of influencing your DD in a positive way by making this stand.

Once you do get a TRO, PLEASE, PLEASE, go to a very dark Plan B with absolutely NO contact with WW. Cut her off in every way. You deserve so much better.

PM
So I get this right--Use the 9 X's through treatment (last one in Oct 2009) and 4X's through professional paid detox center since Jan 2010 to get a TRO. Also active A. I have already decided to name Baldo in the documentation.

What your DD decides when she turns 18 is on her. I believe you stand a better chance of influencing your DD in a positive way by making this stand.

Do you believe the influence in the long run on my DD would be better than what may happen in the short run? I see WW moving out to be with POSOM. Everything at this point is tied up fianacially. I tied up all the loose ends.
I see DD leaving to be with WW if I go TRO. DD has had an alcohol and drug assessment done recently and what a surprise-with 2 addict parents she scores high on all panels for addictions. As recently as 6 weeks ago she was still attending NA. Now that has all changed. I feel she may stay with WW mainly because its easy to use.

Would this be one of those life lessons she may have to face herself in 10-20-30 years down the road and absolutely have to be on one side of the fence or the other? I may pay for it now in the short term with her not living with me but I am loosing her to exactly what I am fighting against right now by not taking a stand.

Is that what your telling me?
Once you do get a TRO, PLEASE, PLEASE, go to a very dark Plan B with absolutely NO contact with WW. Cut her off in every way. You deserve so much better.

She could never see this whole scenario unfold in front of her from Nesre. I will check into this with the lawyer.

Thanks PM.
Thanks SC & Optimism. Prayers are appreciated.


Nesre

Absolutely, you need to show your DD by taking this stand. You're right, she MAY choose to go live with WW and because she's 16, the Court normally would allow it. However, if you can demonstrate to the Court that living with her mom is dangerous to her well-being--- which it is, then the Court may order mom to have only supervised visitation.

She may hate you now (your daughter) if you enforce this, but in the long-run she will appreciate that at least one of her parents really does care about her. You may not reap the benefit of that until she's much older and has children of her own but at least you will be able to say without a doubt that you tried.

Can't you get full custody knowing that your WW lets her daughter drink and use? can't you use that in the courts?

Nesre,

I sure didn't expect to see that post of yours that the DD went back home and you followed.......

" Gutsiest move I ever saw Mav "

To walk back in that house had to be tough

To do everything you can to protect your DD will always be the right thing to do, and that sacrifice will reap it's rewards someday. You are reaping the rewards of being sober now and as you see your WW everyday and the stupor she is in, you must also see how much better your life is with out the alcohol, every day is a victory, and as you continue to do what is best for your DD, you will be blessed

SC

SapphireReturns
Member

Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 774 Can't you get full custody knowing that your WW lets her daughter drink and use? can't you use that in the courts?
_________________________
Me: FWW 26
DH: 30
DS: 4, DS: 2, Hoping for a daughter
DDay: EA1 9/16/09
DDay: EA2 1/19??/2010
NC 3/2/2010
In Recovery
"What you think about, you bring about"

SR
Very hard to get actual hard usable proof. Most teens or "partyers wont help with the situation at all. We could do random UA's. How do you push that when Mom is basically protecting her yet telling her she does not approve!$?. VERY MIXED MESSAGE. Do as I say not as I do.

PM
Just wanted to make sure. The short term loss would be worth the long term gain to me also. All I really want is to instill the right kind of morals and values into my DD's brain at this point. Being a teen I have fed her little spoon fulls along the way through all of this.



SC
Good to see your still around. Hard to keep up on the board. I turned everything off at the apt. to try and save a few bucks. No internet access at the house so I have limited time right now.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Thursday morning meeting with lawyer and will discuss what options to persue. Many people in at the company I work for have used him and he is one of two well respected in our city.

Will try to update soon after.

Nesre

EXTREMELY SHORT VERSION AT THE BOTTOM


Met with the lawyer on thursday morning and have been mulling it around in my pea brain for the past two days.

TRO does not work in our situation because I would have to show or have very strong evidence of physical/verbal violence
against me or DD. That wont work as there is no actual recorded documentation. He said even home recorded documentation can be taken apart and thrown out. Unless it is extreme. There is none and has never been extreme from her side. Just being drunk. stupid, having a bf, and not coming home does not really qualify.

BUT...................

I have 2 options:
1. I can simply file-call for 50/50 custody/division of assets blah di bladi blah. The usual quick standard D.

OR

2. Ask for immediate relief concerning custody from a judge. This would start in motion all the usual set of circumstances as with a younger child. He said if I provide at least a year of history concerning the alcohol use and A that if what I was telling him was true he could see a judge awarding me temporary physical custody. Also he could see as a result WW ordered to vacate the house and abide by the rules of a standard restraining order.

This lawyer has been practicing for 25 years in this same city/county. Everyone I have talked to has told me he is a straight shooter. He would tell you right up front if he didn�t think you had a snowballs chance in he!! With what you were trying to accomplish. He seemed confident with my documentation WW could be at least tied up for a long time.

Basically it�s a longer means to get the same end result. Away from DD and out of the house.

The down side is a judge may not order full custody to me for whatever reason.

My DD basically is free (because of age) to pretty much live where she wants. A relief order basically would only be a legality or moral type victory.

A moral type victory is all I am after at this point. The short term anger that my DD may have toward me is worth the long term life lesson that I could present.

In both scenarios because of the time we have been Md I would probably have to pay her support. We are going to work on that one. I think with documentation of all the wasted money on treatment/time off from work and such it could be low.
His point is real bluntThe county or state will do everything they can to keep them off of them and have the higher paid person pay some support in most every case

I am going to go with #2. At this point I have already lost my WW to POSOM. My DD also is getting dragged into this mess and I believe if she would honestly talk to me she just doesn�t want to get involved taking sides. The drag now is Dad is sober and around the house. She wants to use at this point. DD silence about what she is/has been doing has strained our relationship. I can tell mom and her have secrets. Mom has been letting her get away with pot smoking because the after affects are harder for me to pick up on. I can smell the alcohol and it seems to stay with her longer.

We had an assessment done about a month ago and she had 5/9 markers for drug/alcohol dependence. #1 on the list was abstain from use and it went all the way through to a thirty day in patient treatment program.

This is the point the lawyer will hammer on. Mom is helping DD to hide her use and there are no consequences. It rare when I am around that DD uses. Mom is not honest with me about what/where DD is and what she is doing. She then covers up for her when she screws up.

Through this past week I now see how far into secrecy the A is. WW crashed on Monday from her binge that started on Thursday afternoon. Did not come home thurs/fri sat night. Walked up last Friday night on WW and Baldo sitting by a fire all snugged up. Stood there for 5 minutes listening to them talk about going to Mexico. They had no clue I was standing there. I heard enough.
LBustered for about 30 seconds right in his face. Told him in about the most unchristian way to leave my family and W alone. Hadn�t he screwed up his own family and relationships enough in the past. Why do you need to F@@k with mine.

His response-We are just friends. Ya and I�m the real Santa Claus. Went home and stayed close around the house since DD was back and forth, Left for 3 hours Sunday when WW did come home. I am just staying away from her in the house.

WW Stayed sober tues/wed-She asked me wed morning before I left for work what I was going to do or how do we proceed. I let her know that any talk of relationship would have to be after she was done with her A and had some sobriety. This is way out of my hands at this point and up to her. She kind of plan A�d me a little bit during tues/wed. She washed my cloths-got me coffee a few times-cooked a nice supper one night-sent me a couple of texts during the day just saying-be happy-and just thinking of you. To me its gaslighting at this point- to see what she can still suck out of me or gauge what my feeling towards her are at the moment. Iv�e had enough gas-I wish it was laughing gas at this point.

Not sure but believe she was drinking Thursday night and is back into the binge again. Gone since about 8pm last night and not heard from as of yet.

SHORT VERSION

I will be filing for 100% custody of my DD. By filing this way I still can accomplish the same goal that a TRO would. It will take longer and there will be a time frame where we would have to be together between serving papers and going to court. Do ya think that might be a slightly tense time?

Gotta run for now. I will try to get back later today.

Nesre

Nesre,

I have to say I don't see any return no fighting the custody issue, that's assuming the DD is turning 18 in less than a year. I would be focused on getting the best settlement deal I could, having your act together when you go to court will help that.

I know with out a fight you can get 50/50 and if she is in her senior year of HS this will all be over May!!! You'll be lucky to be done with court by the end of the year anyway that only leaves 5 months to go, and if your in a protracted fight for custody it could stretch out that far easily, never mind the cost.

About a week ago I had a chance to get some more evidence for my war chest on my WW, she was on the front porch skyping the POSOM on her computer, I had been out getting a new bed for my DD's apt at school, I walked in the house looking for the WW and then realized where she was, I could see from the angle I had thru the window what see was doing and then I messed up, I got mad and left... could have shot a quick video of what she was doing. It would have been helpful to show how recent the contact has been, when I finally get in to court, but instead I lost my cool and just left the house and lost the moment.

You could have done the same, in your own house with the WW and the POSOM arm in arm, on tape...... that's good stuff, as is tape of the WW drunk.

My best friend has told me that I'm in the fight of my life and that "He with the most paper wins" , I've been bad about keeping up my journal, now I'm in catchup mode on that. I've got tons of great stuff but most is not admissible,

Every little bit helps, Prepare for war! Don't loose your cool !!! Take that video when the WW presents to to you.

Just a quick update. Just got internet again.

Waiting for WW to be served. Coming up with retainer was a set back.

In the 5 weeks I have been back at the house nothing has changed and actually gotten worse. The only good part was I collected from the inside some usable information to give to the lawyer.

If this wasn't my life it would make quite a fascinating study because even though she is a drunk (7 day drunk ended last thursday) she still does all the WW stuff.

Baldo must really care for Her because he pays her bar tab and has been keeping her supplied.

Watching this in motion and basically being able to predict her next moves, the gas lighting I am going to hear and flat out lies makes me quite sick when I really dwell on it. I have really learned way more than I care to about any of this.

Basically been stuck on the same mantra for way to long

Give up alcohol
Give up Baldo

Demanded an end to both of these three weeks ago in clear terms. I then told her I would be making plans to move on with my life. She said she did not know what that meant. She is delusional about her actions and how they affect us arond her. I know she did not take any of it serious.

BTW-Started drinking sunday-again and disapeared until 11:00 pm. Isn't it a strange coincedence that 3 minutes after she comes home Baldos truck drives in his yard?

A rock--->Nesre. She believes the rock has more intelligence.


Basically now into PLanFU. Living in the downstairs bedroom and living my own life. Finances are almost taken care of. Just waiting for the cell phones to be shut off. The bill hasn't been paid and it is in her name. She would not put me on the account so I have not paid it. The provider and WW will not give me access to all 3 phones on the account-only mine.

Theres is nothing left except apologies when she is sober with nothing behind them. It is easier to change beliefs than behavior rings true. Her words-->They are only friends and nothing is wrong with their relationship. She believes in work hard play hard. I should support her in any way just because she is my wife. In fact if I loved her I would take her out drinking and dancing. If I work hard all week then I can do whatever I want all weekend with or without you. . WW's "play hard" just means drinking all weekend.

Thanks SC for your last post and checking in. I have been so busy with work, the move and all I have not been able to keep up on the board at all.

I really don't need more on Baldo. I just need to present this to a judge that will question the hell out of the WW with her alcohol use. If this is presented right the lawyer thinks a judge will award me full 100% temporary custody. There is one extremely damming incedent that is a point for DD's safety. From there we could tie this up until DD is 18 or close to it. We would be able to remove WW from the home at least long enough to get DD finished with HS. Custody at this point is really up to the DD. At her age she pretty much can live with who she wants.

At this point this lesson needs to be presented to my DD. She needs to know this is not how normal loving M relationships work. She also needs to see the results of consequences for living an alcoholic using life versus living a life in recovery.

WW was served Sept 10 somewhere around 6 pm. She would not answer the door so DD 17 took the papers.

In WW's twisted mind Nesre served the DD. (Don't ask me I don't getit ) WW even SAID "THEY" were served????WTF????

WW has been drunk since.

For some reason I stopped when I was a few miles out of town Friday night and went back in. I had a strange feeling I should not go home then. I grabbed a friend and we went to a meeting. It was about 9:30 when I drove in at home. The car was parked in the middle of the drive. No one was home. Talked to DD about 10 and she never said a word. WW came home about 7 this am and told me she was served.

By 8 am she had 3 beers in her and started with the verbal abuse. I LBd once badly. I need to knock that off or I will get a DV charge. I am not going to say what it was I did since she may gain access to this some time. BTW-In no way did I touch her or hurt her physically.

I went out and did some chores out of the house to avoid her. By 10 am the bar opens and she walked to it. Or she may have walked to Baldos. Not sure because I am trying real hard to stay detached.

My brother came out and we had a good talk and also got a big chore for me done together.

Somewhere around 5pm WW was back. Oh crap brother leaves. DD leaves. I'm left alone with her again. Back out and mow the lawn that I mowed 2 days ago. By 8pm she had even more beer in her. The verbal abuse is just constant everytime she gets within ear shot of me. I tune it out. Go down by the lake -light a fire and listen to some good music for about an hour. I also sit quietly and meditate a bit to the sounds of the loons and sea gulls.

It sometimes astounds me how in the midst of this I can find a small snipit of serenity. I used to feel guilty about it at first like it should not happen or I did not deserve it. Now I welcome it because I know it will not last long.

CAME BACK IN AND SHE STARTS ON ME AGAIN with the VA. PROBABLY NOT a good Love Bank filler but as she kept up the attack I just kept on turning the volume up on the TV. When I got it up to full volume I left and went for a ride in the car. Did not get 3 miles down the road and she wants me to take her and get BEER??!?!! Told her I would get right on it. There was a long silence on the phone and she said-YOUR not gonna do it are you. I told her no. By the time I was back about 20 minutes later she had hoofed it up and got it.

2 left in the fridge. She crashed (thank GOD) about an hour ago.

Lets re-cap Nesre is:

Called An outright Dumba$$ twice today 2 seperate times
Worthless as a provider
28 years of nothing
My family sucks
I have no relationship with my children
Took me too long today to do the chores I did
A pig when it comes to cleanliness
A lousy lover
Balless as a man
My brother is a homo
All my friends are stupid losers

Yup-that just about covers it. Usually stupid is thrown in somewhere along the way. I know if I presented the list to her I would have forgotten one and then it would apply in her world.

I am quite confident a few more items will be added to the list for tommorrow. Shes got her 2 starters in the fridge so it probably will be more of the same.

SHE IS GOING TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THE PETITION WITH MY LAWYER FIRST THING MONDAY MORNING. HE GOT SOME THINGS WRONG.

GOOD luck with that one.

WW made it clear her and dd are going to church in the morning and I AM NOT welcome at the church. REALLY???!!??

Oh and by the way can you give me 3 months worth of rent so I can move out? I told her maybe Baldo should Pony up and pay for what he has been getting with a little more than beer. Maybe he could just let you move in. Free rent. Oh thats right-He is not her BF Lover or AP. I forgot.

She is delusional and doesn't even understand what the petition says. Full custody to Me and no alimony. I am sure her lawyer might be able to catch that.

She Does not have a clue how her behavior has affected all around her in the past and present. She rammed this down DD's throat over and over every time she came out to stay with Mom on the weekend.

Does it seem kinda strange Baldo has not seen my son in over 2 years and out of the blue at about 9pm last night he calls my son? Asks him if he wants to go to a bar close to my sons apt and he will buy him a drink???? Wow-isn't that a strange coincednece.......

This defianately ain't MB's here anybody who is reading. Shortly I will move over to the D forum. Its clear this has moved to Plan FU. I am done with considering a R with this person. Its gone too far. The Bank is broke.

Nesre

I think you maybe should have divorced 5 years ago. Sorry you waited until more damage happened to you and the daughter.

I'm saying a prayer for you tonight, Nesre. You need to keep the faith and stay strong. WW is not in her right mind. She's sick. Do not believe the insults. You are GOOD, WORTHY, GENEROUS, LOVING, CAPABLE, FOCUSED. As hard as it is, you have to keep on the right side and ignore the venom.

This, too, shall pass.

You are in my thoughts and prayers as well Nesre; I can't imagine having to stand strong with all the crap you have had to put up with. But HH is right; you are good, worthy, generous, loving, capable, and focused.
Continue to focus on your own recovery and protecting your DD.

2009 Hyundai Elantra safe and secure from the alcoholic WW. The roads out my way are somewhat safer today.
Apartment rented in town. Set to move yesterday. She did not come home until 5 am today. I Left with the car as soon as she drove in.

In detox 11/27/10 Tranfered to hospital emergency room- dehydrated and vitamin deficiancy severe anxiety
In detox 1/12/11 Started drinking again 1/14.

Has about 4 days of not drinking since the first detox visit. Says she is trying to get into long term (12-18 mo) treatment program. Baldo doesn't seem to be helping her acomplish this.


Im all for it.

I can't stay and watch her die any longer.

My help will have to be from a distance.

Nesre

In detox AGAIN 1/22/11 to 1/24/11. They know her on a first name basis when she hits the door. Every time WW has asked me to take her. In a sick way I know she hates the way she is and for being highly intellegent doesn't have brains enough to know how to stay sober.

Medically discharged by the staff on the 24th. I verified with the staff before I picked her up. Talked a good game all day and into Monday. WW Called her job and I have no clue but they were willing to take her back but had to meet first. WW got an oral reprimand with 2 follow ups. One in one week and another in a month.

How many out here can miss work 4 days straight-work 2 hours and go home sick-Miss another 6 days straight and on 2 of them not even call in-And keep your job?
EDIT ADD-She was drunk (when I leave for work I am drinking coffee-She is drinking Beer)all of these days except the day she went 2 hours to work and came home. SHE STARTED AGAIN WHEN SHE GOT HOME. Edit end

Let her know before the car came back that if she started drinking again it would be gone for good.

Started drinking again 1/28/11. Talked to FIL. He will help me get the car safe again.


I moved to the apartment late last night(friday). Finally at my Bass ackwards PLB again. WW will not leave.
Why should she when I pull all her slack.

DD knows she is welcome to come live with me. WW doesnt have the money to keep the home place afloat. When services (tv/internet/cell phones-things that are really important to a teen girl) begin to shut down and mom has no money or support for her I think she will move in with me. She knows what moms first love really is very well.

What can I say. The crayzyness of both the alcoholism and the A are taking a toll on me and DD. We have been gas lit so much neither one of us has a hair left from the flames. WW's parents too. Her mom said tonight almost every time they talk now she knows WW is lying. Trying to get a straight anSwer is like trying to pull teeth. Monday DD shouted at the top of her lungs at WW. Told her to just get THE F__ out-and a lot of other stuff that I cant even type here. A drunken sailor would have been embarrassed with the words. She is sick of it. I am too. no plan A during this week-just civil. Kept away from pretty much any kind of serious talk. Saw IC thurs. She stuck me hard about not moving and what is left in the R to stay for. Couldnt give any good reasons at this point. Round and round it goes-you gotta get off the merry-go-round or keep playing the sick game.

Off the merry-go-round. Blocked WW's cell number. Left very short letter basically telling her to quit drinking and verify the A is over. Become transparent. Never has with cell phone or whereabouts.

Praise youv in this storm-Live


I know I am going to personally heal from this. It will take some time. DD? Will try to help her the best I can. I have encouraged her to read and post here. Sorry to say but to show her that her mom is just a typical WW and also happens to be alcoholic. ON a side note-WW said thur nite out of the blue "You guys just think I am an alcoholic" WTF?? Think I got the bills from this. M? Not a clue. I would say the D will go through. Supposed to be final in June. Not really enough time for WW alcoholic to prove anything.


Sad part is I have lost myself in all of this. Life on the merry-go-round just plays the same repeated sick stories all over asgain. Sure the characters may change a little and circumstaces somewhat but the result is we that are close get crapped on and she just keeps on doing what she does.

I am going to keep a safe distance. Time for a different direction.

nESRE