Really, Autumn, someone is going to have to go first. Since you're the one here asking for help, the advice you're going to continue to get is that it will have to be you.

Your alternative is to spend the rest of your life, or at least a significant number of years until your OC turns 18, living with someone you can't stand to be around and never talk to. Is that what you want?

Bingo,

Add it some it's not my fault, but it's my spouses fault and you have the complete picture.

You'd all probably be shocked if you knew me IRL-- I'm not afraid of hard work and a challenge. There is not much I won't take on. I'm a believer in pulling one up by the bootstraps, and that good things don't just happen, they are earned after a whole lot of work. I have always cared and had a passion about what I was trying to achieve though. I'm not looking for a magical, blissful marriage for free. I'm trying to figure out how to WANT a magical, blissful marriage in the first place.

My original question was not just about getting love back, but is it even possible when I feel like I don't want to get it back. I shouldn't have come back to MB unless I was at the point of wanting it.

EE~ I have never said it was my husband's fault. If you read, I have freely admitted to him I am more at fault for the state of our marriage than he is.

To me, the key to getting this is looking at the alternatives, which seem to be:

a) Living in a miserable, unhappy marriage for the rest of your life

or

b) Getting a divorce.

Right now, you may not be able to say that you want a happy, loving M with your H, but can you at least figure out if you really want a or b above? If the answer to both of those choices is no, then your only option is to find a way to love your H. If one of the above choices looks acceptable to you, then you do that.

Yes.

If you ask this question again, disguised in another format, I will have to withdraw from this conversation for my own serenity.

Don't tell us, show us.

First you decide if what you want is reality or fantasy. The reality is marriage is work. Even Dr Harley says all people are incompatible. Right there that tells us that to make a fulfilling marriage there is going to be some work involved.

It really doesn't matter if that marriage is with your current husband, or some other guy years later, it's going to take the same work.

So the question is not do you want to be married to your husband. The question is are you willing to do the work it takes to build a good marriage?

You tell us you have always cared and had a passion about what you were trying to achieve. OK, then show us that's the case. Because it's going to take work regardless your spouse.

If you don't want it, then be honest with your husband and say you don't want it, you don't want any marital assets nor will you seek his support for your OC since you are not willing to do the work it takes to be married.

Then, put that passion you tell us about into never getting married again since you tell us you are not willing to do the work.

If you are not enthusiastic about marriage, then at least be honest and let your husband go, without trying to take him to the cleaners or have him support you after you've divorced him. Pack a bag, send him a notarized letter with the confession of your affair and that you want nothing from him and will pay your 1/2 of any marital debts, and you'll allow him to be free.

You also will not be burdened with the guilt of being married but not really willing to do the work it takes to have a good marriage.

Otherwise, if you are not willing to walk away from it and leave everything associated with the marriage you no longer want, then get to work building a marriage.

You're right writer.

That's actually really good solid advice, EE. Thank you.

If I told him those would be the circumstances of a D, he would be all over that.

Sorry, you did say that. I confess that sometimes it comes across as poor me. The whole "I don't know what to do thing" just screams victim to me. Yet I've been there too, so I have some understanding of that.

However, I also know you can't stay there and it's ultimately unattractive. So you have to make a decision at some point and execute. Not just execute, but execute with the passion that you say you have.

When I was a young cadet, I often heard the phrase, make a decision, even if it's wrong. The point was to teach young Army officers in training to be decisive. That was often the hardest part. First you must learn to decide, and then we'll teach you how to make GOOD decisions.

No decision is almost always a bad one, so at least you have a chance to make a good decision if you actually make a decision.

OK, well you took a vow, so are you going to honor it, or confess to your husband that you are either unwilling or unable to do that?

If you really believe you are the prime contributor to the state of the marriage, then would it be reasonable for you to share one of the two following statements with your husband.

DH, I took a vow to love, honor and cherish you and I've not done a very good job of that. I don't believe I'm even capable of honoring such a vow and I seek your forgiveness because I am not able to keep my promise.

Or

DH, I took a vow to love, honor and cherish you and I've not done a very good job of that. I am learning more everyday what my vow really means and I seek your forgiveness and forbearance as I learn how to live out those vows.

Or, I just thought of a third option.

DH, I took a vow to love, honor and cherish you and I've not done a very good job of that. I am learning more everyday what my vow really means and I seek your forgiveness and forbearance as I learn how to live out those vows. I do not want the marriage we had before. But I'm not sure I can do the work it takes to have the marriage you deserve. I may be able to in the future, but I cannot give you an answer with any guarantees. If you want to end this marriage now, without penalty or any responsibility for me and my OC, I would understand and give you the non-contested divorce of your terms.

This is good food for thought, EE.

If I were to sit him down tonight, I would probably go with option #3, because it is both a combination of honesty, and less likely to upset him than #1.

Let me ask you this and you are free not to answer if it's too personal.

Are you really hoping your BH will get fed up and end the marriage? Is this some sort of marital suicide by cop?

That's probably a bit too harsh, but right now, I'm not sure how else to phrase it.

Showing my work, such as it is, I see you, someone who had an affair, had an OC from the affair and not sure she's willing to do the work needed to build a marriage. You say you are the bad guy here, but you don't want to be the bad guy who ends the marriage, so you are hoping that your husband will just pull the plug on this marriage and take it off life support.

Is it something like that, or am I way off here?

If it is, there is no reason why you can't file, and in your filing assert the child is not his, that you had an affair and that all you want are your clothes, anything needed for the baby and that you will pay your 1/2 of the marital debt. You have no interest in further hurting him by taking the house, any part of this retirement or funds and the only assets you want other than your personal items are those he is enthusiastic about giving you.

It's a option that certainly would allow both you to show where you are right now.

Who knows, he may rise to the challenge and start romancing you. He may be looking for the same "first step" as I think you are.

Either way, I believe you would tease out of him where he really is right now. Plus, it would tell him that you are not in this marriage mentally or emotionally.

If you choose, I'd make it clear that it's not him, but you that's the issue, a'la what I've suggested above.

But don't do this out of guilt. Decide based on a honest assessment of who you are and what you are willing to do or not do. If you think you EVER will want to have a great marriage, then I'd suggest doing the work.

I'd only suggest this option if you've examined yourself and find that you don't believe you would ever make a good marriage partner.

And his attempts are met with a... was it cold or dead?... fish.

If I seem harsh, apathetic, or sarcastic, sardonic... caustic... whatever, it's because I totally mean to be. I completely lack empathy for this type of behavior, and never have had empathy for it.

It's straight up <----

What, exactly, would you expect Dr. Harley to tell you, that you haven't already been told, that you haven't already read, that you don't already KNOW?

If I get pissy with you, it's because you remind me of the people I grew up around; addicts and their codependents. And they were always crying, always unhappy, and always waiting for SOMEBODY ELSE TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS. If that didn't happen... well, it should happen that way. Their problems aren't their fault. Their lack of action couldn't possibly be the issue.


So you'll have to excuse me if I'm not coming up sunshine and roses when you sit there in a pity party, drawing circles in the dirt saying "Woe is me, what can I do?"

SOMETHING! ANYTHING! Because, deary, nothing ain't don't s#!+ for you, has it?

That's not too harsh at all, EE.

That's exactly where I'm at.

I do want him to be the one to pull the plug. Mostly, because IF he's the one to do it... my thoughts are he wouldn't be so angry about it, because it was his own decision.

You make me realize I'm being a coward though.

I was willing to be the bad guy in having the A and getting P.

and now.... I'm not willing to be the bad guy in asking for the D.

ftr, I HAVE told him that I'd tell the judge and the whole world for that matter about the A and OC, but he has already said no to that. He still stands by not wanting ANYONE to know... ever, even in the case of D.

But, I can tell him I wouldn't take any money. He'd like that.

HHH, That's all fine. I get it. My question about what to write to Dr. Harley was genuine, though. Not looking for sunshine. EE hasn't blown sunshine up my butt, but has given me constructive info.

It's not too far off either way. EE is opting to go with a gentle nudge, whereas I'm all elbow behind an open-palm smack.

Never know which one is going to work. Sometimes gentle nudges enable behavior, sometimes knee-jerk smacks only create defensiveness.

Either way, the question ends up the same; What are you going to do?

It's you, chica. You know it, you admit it. SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

Again, sitting on your butt cheeks and whining hasn't done a dang thing in how many years?

If it was money, would you get off your azz and get a job?

So, what's the excuse now? You KNOW what MB is, you KNOW what MB does... WHY AREN'T YOU DOING IT, THEN?

You missed my point. I don't mind you being harsh if that's your style, but if you could throw something constructive in while you're at it, that would be helpful. I asked for ideas on what to ask Harley. I only got smart azz comments from you, and nothing from anyone else.

Posters said early on... send an email to Harley to be read on the radio, but when I ask for suggestions on what to write, I get nada. Unless you were serious about your sample email, and that's what you really think I should say to Harley? I've been told my original question to this thread wasn't even the proper one, because one doesn't find love, ok fair enough... I want to get it right, and be concise in an email to Harley.

I've seen people get suggestions on no-contact and Plan B letters. That's all I was asking.

AD,

Early on I mentioned that having to keep this huge secret is your primary issue, but perhaps I was incorrect and it is your Hs avoidance and not communicating that is the issue. Keeping the secret is just a byproduct of his behavior.

God Bless
Gamma

Could be Gamma, but I'm seeing that now is not the time to ask WHY, but to either fish or cut bait. If I fish, and this thing gets fixed, then yes... we will have to address that issue. Even if we cut bait, it will have to be addressed. I just think the WHY isn't so much the issue at the moment as the do or not do- is.

Thank you for your concern though, because it IS always with me, and I assume with him too.