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I agree with Sugar. This: So, now I don't bug him or my kids about my interests anymore, but they're pissed that I ignore them, have checked out and generally suck as a wife or mother! I feel like I "over-corrected"--- trying to find people who liked to discuss the same things I like to discuss, so as to not bore my family, and not have my feelings hurt that they didn't want to share in my interests, but now I spend more time with acquaintances, virtual strangers and my hobby. This is a HUGE problem IMHO. You've basically told your H and your children that YOUR needs are more important than theirs. 5000 friends on FB? Really? That has to take a considerable amount of time to keep up with all that. I have a suggestion. Stay off of FB for two weeks. Use the time that you've been spending there and focus it on your family, especially your H. Start implementing MB methods. During those two weeks, commit to Plan A towards your husband WITH NO EXPECTATIONS. Your COM do know what's what. If you continue to withhold this IMPORTANT information from them about THEIR lives, it will come back to bite you. As adults, they will see the truth of their childhoods. Your H may be turned off to MB for now, but who's to say he might not have a change of heart if he sees a change of heart in you.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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As my husband says, one of my number one problems is real life family and friend human relationships. Whereas with the real life people I know because of my political activism, as well as on the internet with people I've never met-- I'm Miss personality, who everyone likes, and is interested in my opinions being that I'm a prolific political blogger on fb, and have maxed out at 5,000 friends. Yet, when I look back on the origins of my political activism and my political blogging, it was because I bored the hell out him, and my kids with my interests whenever I tried to discuss my thoughts with them, and get them to engage in conversation. My H would always say he's heard all the stuff before on the news or whatever. So, now I don't bug him or my kids about my interests anymore, but they're pissed that I ignore them, have checked out and generally suck as a wife or mother! I feel like I "over-corrected"--- trying to find people who liked to discuss the same things I like to discuss, so as to not bore my family, and not have my feelings hurt that they didn't want to share in my interests, but now I spend more time with acquaintances, virtual strangers and my hobby. You need advice from someone who understands and has worked the basic principles more than I, but this seems to be another big tactical error. I think that what you should have done is focused on an interest that you shared with your H. My feeling is that, although this is "politics" and therefore "important", it is also RC for you. It is what you love to do when you are not doing your job or other duties. It is enjoyable time for you, and you developed this activity away from your H, thus increasing the disconnect in your marriage. If I am right, the solution is drastically to cut back on the time you spend doing your activism, and work on meeting the 4 intimate needs (I'm sure they were outlined above) during the MINIMUM 20 hours you spend alone with your H.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Cut down or give up the activism right now, spend 20+ hours with your H, and call the coaching centre.
Your H has read this thread and is fully aware (if he wasn't before) of your feelings and of the crisis in your marriage. Why not ask him now to join you in phone coaching? Why not, now that you have both acknowledged the state of your marriage?
If your H won't commit to coaching, why not call the centre yourself?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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COM have always thought I'm more at fault, even as kids. They are both very vocal and not afraid to tell me what they think, so I'd think if they knew about OC, they'd have thrown it in my face a long time ago, or at the very least told H they know, but he says they have not. I could be all wrong though, and maybe they do know. I'd prefer people to know.
H will not get involved in any way with my activism, nor will he read my blogs, even though we do hold the same beliefs. We have never found a recreation that we're both enthusiastic about. We have some similar interests, but they're not the things either one of us absolutely love and adore doing. The things we individually love to do, are NOT the same things. I can only take his favorite interests in very small doses, and he can't take mine at all.
After I posted my last post, I asked him how much time he thought we spend together on average per day and he said 5 minutes. So, even my 10 minutes was generous.
Another thing we discussed tonight, is he doesn't get why I think we need to do the MB weekend program. He said I should be old enough, and married long enough to know between right and wrong, and what works and what doesn't work, that I shouldn't need a program... that I should just do it. He said he does his job every day, even when it's difficult, without a program telling him what to do.
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Yeah, but he clocks in and out to make sure he works all the hours he is paid for, correct?
You BOTH need the accountability to 20+ hours each week.
He77, AD I am starting to think I need it. Why? For the same reason you need it; if you don't get it, you just aren't going to feel in love.
The activism needs to go. Activism is best left to those who have their entire heart and soul to give; not wives, husbands, mothers, and fathers.
Let the unattached give their time, you find a way that you can lend support that allows you to keep your word to your husband and children.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I did deactivate fb and blogging for about 1 month last year to focus more on family. All it ended up proving to me, is that strangers are more interested in my thoughts, than my own family- because it was back to them saying I bore them and they don't want to hear it. Though, they were happier for better meals and a cleaner house.
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. He said no, because he also severely disagreed with some of the posters- namely Melody for suggesting he quit his job... he said that lady is NUTS, (I'm sorry Mel, I had to laugh at that one, because you probably know more about MB than just about anyone else on this site, but he thinks you're out to lunch), I might be nuts but I have a great marriage, and he does not!  But he is wrong if he thinks I am "nuts" about his traveling job. [he already has the proof that I am right] Sorry, but that is not ME who says that, but Dr Harley. You can't fall in love if you are not meeting each others needs on a daily basis. It has led to the emotional detachment in your marriage but you already know that. Unless you are together meeting each others needs on a daily basis, you won't be able to fall in love again. But don't take my word for it! You can write Dr Harley and ask him yourself. Wouldn't it be tragic if you did all this work for nothing? Surely you would want to KNOW if you were wasting your time and the traveling job was an obstacle, right? Ignorance is only sooo blissful. Dr Harley's radio show Dr Harley: "Not only should you spend 15 hours per week of undivided attention, but you should not be apart overnight. Your career should support your marriage, not the other way around."He has said this so many times on his radio show that I don't see how there could be any question anymore. [here is one of MANY radio segments where he has discussed this: August 11, 2006 Segment: #01181 Members Rating: (No Ratings) Description: A woman writes asking how to handle a traveling spouse. Her spouse travels alone, is gone overnight, and works with other business partners. TIME: 8:52 -- SIZE: 2.03 MB here ] When I apply the fifteen-hour principle to marriages, I usually recommend that the time be evenly distributed throughout the week, two to three hours each day. When time must be bunched up -- all hours only on the weekend -- good results are not as predictable. Spouses need to be emotionally reconnected almost on a daily basis to meet each other's most important emotional needs.
The reason I have so much difficulty getting couples to spend time alone together is that when I first see them for counseling, they are not in love. Their relationship does not do anything for them, and the time spent with each other seems like a total waste at first. But when they spend time together, they learn to re-create the romantic experiences that first nurtured their love relationship. Without that time, they have little hope of restoring the love they once had for each other.
But fifteen hours a week is usually not nearly enough time for couples that are not yet in love. To help them jump-start their relationship, I usually suggest twenty-five or thirty hours a week of undivided attention until they are both in love with each other again.
Your time together is too important to the security of your marriage to neglect. It's more important than time spent doing anything else during the week, including time with your children and your job. Remember that the time you should set aside is only equivalent to a part-time job. It isn't time you don't have; it's time you will use for something less important, if you don't use it for each other.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. you have email! I just sent one clip to the email address in your profile. Let me know if you don't get it!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Are you kidding me HHH? Only single unattached people should be involved in politics? Sorry, not quitting. By your standard, we wouldn't have many of the presidents, congressman, senators, and governors we've had in our entire history. Would you tell a man who golfs almost every weekend to give up golfing? Would you tell a woman who's obsessed with to scrapbooking to give it up?
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Are you kidding me HHH? Only single unattached people should be involved in politics? Sorry, not quitting. By your standard, we wouldn't have many of the presidents, congressman, senators, and governors we've had in our entire history. Would you tell a man who golfs almost every weekend to give up golfing? Would you tell a woman who's obsessed with to scrapbooking to give it up? Yes... If it interferes with their marriages. Yes. But then no one has to give up anything. But if someone wants to have a great marriage, they will put everything else aside to achieve it. There is no golf game or scrapbooking that is worth a marriage. If someone enjoys golfing so much that they neglect their marriage, they need to give it up IF THEY WANT A HAPPY MARRIAGE. If they don't, then no problemo. As far as politics goes, look how many broken marriage and affairs take place? It is a way of life with them.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why Should a Couple Plan to Be with Each Other When They Are the Happiest? by Dr Bill Harley Introduction: One of the most controversial positions I take regarding marriage is that a husband and wife should be together for their favorite recreational activities. Whatever it is they enjoy doing the most, they either do with each other, or they don't do it at all. article continued here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why Should a Couple Plan to Be with Each Other When They Are the Happiest? by Dr Bill Harley Introduction: One of the most controversial positions I take regarding marriage is that a husband and wife should be together for their favorite recreational activities. Whatever it is they enjoy doing the most, they either do with each other, or they don't do it at all. article continued here Wow, I would totally have a hard (impossible) time with this. For me, it isn't political activism, it's writing. But it would be the same thing. My entire identity is defined by my writing. It's not my H's thing at all. He doesn't write. He doesn't even read much, and he reads very little of the sort of thing I like to write. If AD feels the same way about her political activism as I do about my writing, telling her to quit and start doing something her H is interested in instead just isn't going to work. There has to be a better way than telling someone they have to give up the very thing that defines them. I've been writing since I was 5 years old, long before I ever met my H. There's no way I would ever give up something so important in my life (and luckily my H knows this and understands it and would never ask me to). But that's what AD is being told to do. Give up everything that's important to her and find something else to do that her H enjoys too. I would never be happy with that, and I suspect AD won't either. There has to be some alternative to giving up her very identity just to make everyone else happy.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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There has to be some alternative to giving up her very identity just to make everyone else happy. Well, as I understand it, writer, it's to make HER happy, not everyone else. If focusing on something they both enjoy gives AD a good marriage, then she'll be happy. It would be good, AD, if you could find a way of spending 3 hours every day doing the 4 intimate activities with your H, without giving up entirely your political interests. Do you think that you can make that time?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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If AD feels the same way about her political activism as I do about my writing, telling her to quit and start doing something her H is interested in instead just isn't going to work. There has to be a better way than telling someone they have to give up the very thing that defines them. If you are "defined" by an activity outside of your marriage, rather than as a married person, then that is indicative of a problem in the marriage. It means you have placed that activity before your marriage. And that is understandable if the marriage is bad, but the goal here is to turn that around. The goal is to replace that activity with something that benefits your marriage and makes you BOTH happy. But, AGAIN, I want to emphasize that this is all volunatary. You don't "have to" do a any thing. All voluntary. This is what you do if you want a happy marriage. Take it or leave it. Q: After the seminar he still did not feel that the band was a problem. When we were trying to schedule 15 hours it was still around the band. I finally spoke up and told him that I didn't think that we could continue the lessons because I would not feel that I was a priority in his life if he was still leaving twice a week. He wanted to go down to once a week, but I still felt like I would be competing with the band.
Dr Harley's ANSWER: The band falls into the category of a recreational interest that you do not enjoy together. Even if you were part of the band, I'm not sure it would work because the recreational activities I want you to consider are those that enable you to give undivided attention to each other while you're doing it.
All recreational interests carry the risk of becoming addictive. That's because they're all designed to be enjoyable. An addict is someone who enjoys something so much that he or she loses perspective as to what's really important in life. In marriage, recreational interests can be very dangerous because they can come between spouses, as you've discovered. You've witnessed how a simple recreational interest can become all consuming because it's so enjoyable. I congratulate you in the way you've been handling the situation because it's the only way to do it.
There are two kinds of resentment in marriage. The first kind is resentment that comes from being forced to do something you don't enjoy, or endure something that your spouse is doing. These are all violations of the POJA. When you are forced to do something without your enthusiastic agreement, or your spouse does something without your enthusiastic agreement, resentment is sure to follow. And you've been experiencing it in spades!
The second kind of resentment comes from having to give up something you do that you enjoy doing. It's what your husband is experiencing since he's given up his band. He wants to follow the POJA, because he knows that it's essential in building a lifestyle that both of you can enjoy. But his Taker is reminding him how much fun he had playing in the band, and he is angry that he must give it up.
While both kinds of resentment make a person angry at first, it's only the first kind of resentment that keeps a person angry. That's because there are no alternatives to being forced to do what you don't like, or being forced to put up with something your spouse is doing. It's relentless. On the other hand, the second kind of resentment doesn't last if enjoyable alternatives replace whatever it was that was given up. As soon as you finds something that you enjoy as much, giving up something no longer becomes a source of resentment.
The reason you are still angry and resentful, even though he's given up the band, is because he has not yet found that recreational interest he can enjoy with you as much as he enjoys playing in the band. Every time he talks about getting back into the band, you are reminded of the fact that you're not there yet. And you're also reminded of how much he neglected you when he was practicing. That makes you feel insecure and angry.
The resentment that both of you feel will end as soon as you find recreational interests that you enjoy together -- as soon as you become each other's favorite recreational companions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody, the thing is, I'm not sure that AD's political activism is merely a recreational activity. From the way she describes it, it is something that she feels very deeply and passionately about, something that gives her life meaning and purpose. I certainly don't consider my writing as a recreational activity.
Of course, there needs to be balance. But I think it's possible to find that balance. I don't think she needs to give up her interests entirely just because it isn't something that her H is interested in. AD even said that she would be miserable if she had to give up everything that was important to her and spend the rest of her life pretending to be something that she wasn't.
I really think the key here is balance, finding a way, as Sugarcane said, to get in the UA time without completely giving up her own interests. I think that's something we all have to do. We don't stop being individuals with our own interests just because we get married, and we shouldn't have to. I don't think it's possible for most married people to only do things that both people are interested in all the time. AD's problem seems to be that her and her H aren't doing ANYTHING that they are both interested in and aren't really spending any UA time together.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Melody, the thing is, I'm not sure that AD's political activism is merely a recreational activity. From the way she describes it, it is something that she feels very deeply and passionately about, something that gives her life meaning and purpose. I certainly don't consider my writing as a recreational activity. I don't care what we call it. What it is is an activity that she places ABOVE her marriage that detracts from her marriage. She has more passion for her politics than she does her husband and her marriage. WE can play semantical games with the name but it is all the same. The point is that if she has any activity she enjoys MORE than being with him, it needs to go. And since I am a political activist, I know exactly how she feels and exactly what she is doing. The passion I FELT for my politics definitely outshone my MARRIAGE and I quit it. Again, this is all voluntary. This is *IF* she wants to have a great marriage. She has to do nothing. No, the key is not finding "balance," the key to a happy marriage is following Dr Harley's suggestions to the letter. Again, all voluntary.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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posting AGAIN: Why Should a Couple Plan to Be with Each Other When They Are the Happiest? by Dr Bill Harley Introduction: One of the most controversial positions I take regarding marriage is that a husband and wife should be together for their favorite recreational activities. Whatever it is they enjoy doing the most, they either do with each other, or they don't do it at all. article continued here So, you see, Dr Harley is not splitting hairs with definitions, writer. You can argue against this all you want, but Harley is clear. You can take it or leave it but you can't pretend that politics is not an activity that she enjoys the most. She has stated she feels "passionate" about it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody, the thing is, I'm not sure that AD's political activism is merely a recreational activity. From the way she describes it, it is something that she feels very deeply and passionately about, something that gives her life meaning and purpose. I certainly don't consider my writing as a recreational activity. One of the most controversial positions I take regarding marriage is that a husband and wife should be together for their favorite recreational activities. Whatever it is they enjoy doing the most, they either do with each other, or they don't do it at all. case closed.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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posting AGAIN: Why Should a Couple Plan to Be with Each Other When They Are the Happiest? by Dr Bill Harley Introduction: One of the most controversial positions I take regarding marriage is that a husband and wife should be together for their favorite recreational activities. Whatever it is they enjoy doing the most, they either do with each other, or they don't do it at all. article continued here So, you see, Dr Harley is not splitting hairs with definitions, writer. You can argue against this all you want, but Harley is clear. You can take it or leave it but you can't pretend that politics is not an activity that she enjoys the most. She has stated she feels "passionate" about it. So, you're saying that the ONLY answer is that AD has to give up something that she's passionate about entirely? No balance, she just gives it up and never does any sort of political activism again? I suppose I would also have to give up my writing, since my H isn't a writer, and it isn't something we do together? That really makes no sense. I don't think Dr. Harley is saying that married people should never do anything if they can't do it together. And I don't think he believes that people shouldn't have passions or answer to "higher callings." Dr. Harley himself seems to have a bit of a higher calling that he answers to himself, and he manages to do it in a way that isn't detrimental to his marriage (quite the contrary). Wouldn't it be possible for AD to continue participating in her political activism as long as she was getting in the UA time with her H and they were doing things together that they both enjoy as well?
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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One of the most controversial positions I take regarding marriage is that a husband and wife should be together for their favorite recreational activities. Whatever it is they enjoy doing the most, they either do with each other, or they don't do it at all. case closed. What if this thing the person enjoys doing is a career? I imagine that most people who have certain careers that require a great deal of passion and energy would have to enjoy them in order to go into the field in the first place. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, things like that come to mind. Obviously, these are things that one would (or certainly should) enjoy a great deal in order to do them well. So, in your argument, if a doctor feels passionate about what he's doing and enjoys his job and finds fulfillment in helping people, he should stop doing it, since it isn't something, in all likelihood, that he can include his spouse in. Really, it is possible to find joy and fulfillment in a career, a passion, an art, whatever, and still find joy and fulfillment in your relationship with your spouse, children, etc. as well. A person is capable of being multi-faceted.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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