Hello Woot,

Actually I do.

It's provident that you put your searching for a church right in the same post as wanting anti-wimp lessons.

Christ put his Church family first...

which is what you need to do with your wife.

Your WW needs to feel a strong presence from you which is what a TRUE christian man is.

One that knows that he is not the boss, king or tyrant of the family but the leader.

That means that your WW needs to see her true value reflected in your actions the way that Christ was willing to die for the Church.

That means you lead the family with love and without selfishness...

HOWEVER....

There is a triage order for your leading.

It goes like this:

CHRIST

YOUR WIFE

THE FAMILY

INDIVIDUAL FAMILY MEMBERS

YOU

By placing your W second only to submission to Christ you have placed HER as the most important earthly part of your life...

One that you would willingly die for.

She will know this because it will be reflected in your decisions made in consultation with her for her and the family.

Funny thing about this is that you will receive MORE love, respect and admiration from your family by doing this than you ever would have by demanding it.

You see it is GIVEN not TAKEN.

I'm a cowboy so here you go...

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." John Wayne

God bless.

Jim

Plan A is about meeting ENs, and avoiding LBs. You must do wht you can to avoid ALL LBs as they will remove more LB balance in her LB AND give her more justifications, for her wayward mind, as to WHY you aren't right for her.

I am NOT saying it's fair, it just IS.

I think you should read the carrot and the stick thread, again if you already have. Make sure you use the stick of Plan A so you don't become Plan Doormat. DrH has said, on his radio show, that he advises BHs to become the pursuers in their marriage, that's why Plan A is longer for a BH.

Jim, I appreciate your enthusiasm lol. But I would say I'm more of testing the waters with church. I mean, I believe there is a god, but I haven't had that OMG moment yet.

How is that related to not being a wimp? Yes, my wife does come first. Her needs are the most important thing to me. But it seems like I am always bending to her every will, to the point that those around me notice and question if she ever does anything for me.

Scotty, I agree with you 100%. Every conversation we've had about "us" has resulted in her having more justifications as to why it won't work. Its to the point that I don't think I'm capable of talking to her about important matters without pushing her away.

What I am worried though, is that I will be unable to meet her ENs, because she will avoid me like the plague when she returns.

Hello Woot,

At your request and on your thread I am going to share with you my feelings on being a Christian man and why being a Christian husband saved my marriage.

Being a Christian man means being part of something larger than yourself.

It means taking a stand for what is right and what is wrong...

to everyone including your WW.

IT MEANS YOU DO NOT BEND TO HER EVERY WILL...

You do God's will.

It takes strength to be firm to your WW who is seeing how much she can get away with.

It is to care for her enough to tell her NO even when it makes her angry...

Not because she isn't doing what you want...

but because she is wrong in her rebellion against you and against her God and it will ultimately hurt her.

It means you trust God to care for you and to guide your life.

Wimps do not have the strength to be a true Christian.

They cower in fear every day of what might happen today and tomorrow and do nothing which fulfills their prophecy of fear.

Their WW is actually desperate for someone to care enough about them to love them enough to stand up to them and guide them.

To be the leader of their family.

A wife yearns to respect her husband and does not want someone who trembles in fear at her every threat.

There is an EPIDEMIC of wimps on this board who do not stand up to their WW's and pay for it by finally being divorced by them.

I have yet to see ONE WW who wanted a wimp for a husband.

Learning how a Christian man relates to his God, Wife, Family and Friends will cure your case of the wimps, my friend.

God bless.

Jim

Thanks.

I think you are correct in that no woman wants a wimp.
I don't know the difference between standing up to her, and being mean/controlling. So I bend to her will and apologize every time I say something she doesn't like.

What could be some practical examples of not being a wimp and standing up to her?
I guess another question is, how do you stand up to her without commiting love busters when I feel like any resistance to what she wants counts as a love buster.

Woot. Here are my thoughts on your situation.
You feel she will avoid you when she comes back. Don't chase after her when she does.
Be attractive and fun to be with when or if she does have contact with you and don't even talk about the relationship. If she brings it up....nod your head say "Hmmmm." look deep in thought but strong. Plan A her when/if she is around you. Get a network meanwhile to keep busy with even when she is back. She might notice you are one busy guy. She might not (she probably will).

So....invite some buddies over right now, after you have tidied up the home and practice being social and busy.

Then, as a nonwimp man, you are kind to her but firm. You let her know that you will not accept less than 100% of her commitment to creating a good marriage and that you are willing to work on one but not do all the work yourself and then prepare to go to plan B and do it.

You can do it.

Reading, thanks for the words of encouragement. I think you are right in what you say, and I even tried that Hmmmm thing tonight when she started talking about the relationship.

But about tonight:
Wow, just had another conversation with my wife. I kept my cool the whole time, she got really heated. She steered it.

She opened with "I talked with an attorney." and went into how this past 5 months, I've done this wrong and that wrong. How I keep saying that I'm working on our marriage, but I've done nothing to show it. She kept pushing that I never got rid of my private bank account, even during this whole 5 months. Yes, money has been a huge conflict in our marriage, basically me not trusting her (for no reason, she was always trustworthy with money) and keeping a separate account while her only account was a joint one. To quote her "You always spent our money like you were the only one earning it." She has been saying the past few days that she is going to close the joint account. I asked her to not close it, and I would move everything into that and send her confirmation that I have closed my other account. Leap of faith that could burn me. I know. Trust me I know the potential downside of this. But I mean business, I'm in my marriage 100%.

The strange thing is, she was saying that she has been giving me signs the whole time that she was still willing to work on it. Like sending me money to help pay the bills. Or to quote her "how about that I haven't actually filed for divorce?"

I feel like this whole time, if I had merged my account, her answer would be what it currently is, and that is: "Its too late."
Am I crazy? This whole 5 months she has been saying she doesn't want to work on it. Yet I'm supposed to somehow have figured out that she secretly does and is just saying otherwise? WTF?

So uhh. Yeah.

Ohh, and I think she might be really pissed if she comes home and there's two new bicycles sitting there. Especially since she hates that she has been sending me "her half of the bills." and is bitter about it.

What I really find strange, is this entire journey she has said that she's not on board. Then when she reflects back, she seems to think that she was. Do I just ignore completely her saying "I'm not working on it." and act like she is? And another quote "well, you haven't done ANYTHING to change my mind"

Woot,

Since your WW doesn't even KNOW about the bikes it's obvious from the above quotes that you are so afraid of her that you either didn't buy the bicycles or you ignored the advice to tell her about your plans with her to use them. It's also obvious that there were no pictures to her of them or of you using yours and HAVING FUN to PROVE to her you were serious either.

How about the rest of the advice that you've been given?

Going to the gym and having the manager take some pic's of you working out and HAVING FUN WITH FRIENDS to show her?

Cleaning the house and inviting friends over once again with pictures OF YOU HAVING FUN WITH THEM to share with her of the NEW WOOT?

You KNEW merging the accounts were important to her so you did what?

What did the doc say about anti-depressants? Have you even gone?

Your WW said "well, you haven't done anything to change my mind."

Well, Woot, what HAVE you done?

Sending care packages that don't reveal the NEW you with pictures are worthless...

She doesn't think that you can change and so far you haven't proven to her that you can.

If you are SERIOUS about saving your marriage I think that you need to do a better Plan A showing the NEW YOU before you consider Plan B or she is just going to appreciate being left alone. You are the only one that knows how long you can Plan A.

Woot, most churches have activities during the week and can be a great support group for you.

Have you considered giving Steve Harley a call to see what else you might do? Either a call or the radio show is free. Send him an email and ask for your questions to be answered on air.

You still have about a month before she gets home. I would get busy if I were you.

Jim

I thought of the bikes as a surprise when she gets home. I said that after you mentioned buying them, and never heard otherwise. I just re-read my entire thread to make sure. So yes, I have bought them, no I didn't let her know about them. Now I'm questioning whether they will do more harm than good with her being quite angry that she has had to help pay bills.

She doesn't know about me buying the trackday for her either. Again, a surprise.

I have been sending her care packaged with pictures of me snowboarding, hanging out, and of ideas where we could go do stuff together. She even sites that her arguments with me "I send you money so you can go out and have fun with your friends?"

In care packages I've included flyers of local places to go have fun. As well as some books on hiking, camping, snowboarding, biking. All of which I flipped through and highlighted "things I'd like to do with you" Ie. I'd like to hike this trail with you.

I went to my psychologist yesterday to get a referral for anti-depressants.

I merged my acct into our joint one last night.

you're right.

So I guess I have pretty much failed at Plan A. No wonder divorce is coming.
Jim you've been here to try and help this whole time, and I haven't even listened.

Well, what do I need to do? I understand if you're angry at me that I haven't listened, so I'll understand if you just leave me to my means. You are here on your own accord, trying to help. And for what it's worth it's appreciated.

So with one month left, what should I do. Exact instructions like I'm retarded because it seems I have trouble listening.

Here is what I gather from you:
Anti depressants. (I'm getting the prescription today at noon)
Become active in the church, and demonstrate that I'm going out and being a part of that to her.
Go out with friends this weekend, send her pictures.
Send her some pictures of activites.

What should I do about the bikes, knowing that she is angry that I have been spending too much money?

What else should I do? I have the chance for one care package, maybe two. And there is always email. Please spell it out so I don't miss anything. I do understand if you walk away though.

Jim, thanks for the help. I need it. And I appreciate your patience, it can't be easy.

Hey Woot!

Not angry at all...

You are just like the rest of us when it comes to changing life long habits...

especially when they hurt so much...

I've got to do some chores around the ranch and will give you a reply as soon as I can later today.

In the meantime I would not be surprised if someone else chimes in before I get back.

Just wanted to let you know I'll be back a little later.

God bless you Woot.

Jim

Just took the first pill of anti-depressants. Zoloft I think.
I don't feel any happier. (I kidd)

With my counselor today, I kind of raged a little bit.
It really bugs me that supposidly these past 5 months "She's been trying." Yet I've gotten almost no positive feedback. She has never said that I had a chance, its always been "Its too late." Then now she is saying "You should have done X during this time. I was just saying it was too late." WTF!%!@%^ Its the same problem that I attribute to her in this marriage. She never actually says what she means. I'm supposed to read the signs. My tea leaves are supposed to tell me what she actually wants done.

So looking at what she currently is saying. "I've talked to a lawyer, I'm filing for divorce." Well, she's said that before, except now I think she's actually talked to a lawyer. How am I supposed to interpet that? Like in the past where its just anger and I'm supposed to show her that I care about the relationship, or she actually means it.

I guess it doesn't matter. If she means it, she means it. I try and she goes through with it. However, if I do nothing and she was looking to see if that would get me to make a change, I blew it. I feel like I've learned more about what she was unhappy with through these past few arguments, than I have in 3 years, because now she is saying EXACTLY what I've done wrong.

Sorry just venting a little.

What are your plans woot? I pop in every once and a while to read your posts.

Hello Woot,

First thing you do is to quit taking the fogbabble that is spewing out of her mouth as the truth...

It isn't.

It's just her trying to justify what she was doing and to blame you for EVERYTHING that has gone wrong in the marriage.

Something else you need to know the truth about is if you two are married it's not HER account and YOUR account, it's OUR account.

It's not about her GIVING you money it's directing the MARITAL money where it needs to go. If you choose to become Christian you will learn that you two became ONE flesh when you were united in marriage.

Woot, I'm not sure that the usual care packages are what's needed at this point.

I think what's needed is for your wife to see accountability in you...

and change.

She needs to know that she has your attention now and that you are LISTENING. (You know that affairs are never justified but don't bring that up right now.)

That this was a wakeup call to a husband that was deaf and that you hear her loud and clear.

You two have a history together that her and her OM's do not.

Use that.

You are going to write a love letter to her that puts all others to shame.

If you are like most of us you and your wife, your parents and hers, have lots and lots of photographs of you two when you were kids, growing up, met, married, vacations, reunioned, weddings, parties....

everthing that was part of you and your wife's life together.

Stock up on food and water and get comfortable with your computer scanner.

Scan them onto a CD with a cute title that you both would recall the picture. Print out two paper copies of each photograph. One for her scrapbook and one for yours.

Go to the hobby store and pick out two MATCHING nice scrapbooks. Begin with photo's of each of you as babies and continue through childhood through meeting and dating and getting married - lots of marriage photo's - through your marriage up to today.

IMPORTANT - With each photo write a short narrative about what was in the photo and what you were doing and thinking at the time. Insert a copy of your wedding invitations and ceremony. Include a few photo's with a blank narrative that you will "have to ask her help with as to who that was or where that was so that you can label it."

Write her a love letter that tells her that she IS your life and that you are sorry for not being the leader you should have been in your marriage and that you have heard her loud and clear. Tell her that you now know how to be the man she can fall in love with all over again and that if she can forgive you...

that you can forgive her too...

that you MEANT your vows for better or worse...

because that's what people that love each other do.

God bless.

Jim

Woot,

You need to send it to her.

Jim

Ouch. All of our pictures are digital and on a hard drive. My own computer died while she was gone, and the only copy of all of our pictures are on a hard drive she has with her.

I have access to a wedding album that is hard copy, and thats about it.

Woot,

That makes it a little more difficult but not impossible...

In my post to you I mentioned YOUR parents and HER parents.

You need to GO SEE THEM and ask to make copies of those photos!!!

Tell them it is a surprise gift for your wife and to not let her know about it.

Get as many as you can from them and also any friends who might have some.

If all else fails and only if they have absolutely NOTHING which I can't see parents and friends not having ANYTHING, you SEND her a scan drive and ask her to copy the file for you off of her computer.

She will probably think that you just want to have a copy for yourself. You must SEND IT TO HER (not ask her to buy it and do it) to make it more difficult for her to refuse and only if EVERYONE else has NOTHING.

NO EXCUSES.

Get busy.

Jim

Both of our parents live on the east coast while I live in California. I'll give both a call tonight to get some pictures and have them email them to me. Then I can print them.

There isn't enough time to get her a hard drive and have her send it back. She would beat it home.

Not because I picture this as something difficult to do, I think a scrapbook would be cake, but I see my utter lack of access to pictures as a huge challenge. My heart sunk as soon as you mentioned this idea.

Woot,

Just to be clear...

You need EVERY picture you can get.

From your births to present day.

Call your friends also.

You want to make it clear to her that her WHOLE life and yours are intertwined together...

that you two have a long history together and that it involves both of your families...

that at one time you were happy together and CAN be again.

She will go back and look at it over and over and there you will be...

her husband...

and herself...

her family...

and friends...

and you are a part of all of it.

Let me know if you have questions putting it together.

Jim