Read, but my answer was edited out, so apparently it will just continue to look as though I actually didn't read it or attempt to answer this.

What can you do?

I'm done here. Goodbye.

Sorry to "hit and run," but this discussion reminds me of something I heard years ago. I heard a speaker say,

I was much the same way. I had passion for a lot of things, and often defined myself by what I did rather than who I was.

It's taken a lot of hard knocks to learn how to be a better person. But now I have things in the proper order, and things are going a lot better!

Butting out now...

Too bad writer, I think you had valid points. I'd like to see where the wife is advised to give up say, her passion for painting even if it doesn't interfere with UA and it doesn't bother the husband?

Sorry, but now it seems as if you're trying to make a problem where none exists.

Marriage Building is all about meeting emotional needs, being radically honest with each other, and having joint agreement on everything.

If there is no problem, then why require one to give up something? NOW there's a problem...

What it looks like is that you read the concept but disagreed with it.

If what you have is a disagreement with one of Dr. Harley's concepts, I know you are welcome to discuss it on your own thread, but not to debate it as a point of contention in a thread started by somebody else looking for help.

I didn't see your original answer, but if you "attempted to answer" the quote from Dr. Harley, it sounds like the issue is that you disagree. I'm just quoting your own post here, what I can see.

It's certainly okay to disagree with Dr. Harley. But we all know it's not okay to come on Dr. Harley's board and post to people who came looking to be helped with Dr. Harley's concepts and give them conflicting advice. And we all know that whether we think that rule is crazy or wonderful, we can be respectful toward the owners of that board by following their rule when we are here, and go elsewhere when we don't feel like following it.

My understanding is that Dr. Harley and Joyce think outside recreational activities are perfectly fine as long as:
* UA time is met
* the other spouse is enthusiastic
* the husband and wife are each other's favorite recreational companions

For example, Dr. Harley went to see Star Wars movies without Joyce. She didn't want to see them; he did. But he didn't go see Da Vinci Code.

If she has a "passion" for painting that overshadows her marriage, then it probably wouldn't be very good for the marriage because of the contrast effect. In the quote I gave above, the H was a musician and even though they got in their UA time, he was so emotionally invested and "passionate" in his music career, that it interfered with the marriage. The question to ask if it interferes with the marriage. If it does, then it needs to go.

I think I might be even more confused now.

I cannot imagine giving up my political activism. It's more than a hobby for me. I've been involved in politics in one form or another since the evening I watched Nixon resign, as a kid.

So for us to have any chance, my H needs to quit the career he's been in for 25 years, and I need to give up the number one passion in my life?

That premise sounds so depressing.

The 15-30 hours thing-- I will believe you that it works, because you all seem pretty adamant about it, but to me.... just thinking about spending that much time together, sounds like sheer torture. I tried to sit in the same room with him a few minutes after dinner tonight, but he had on some man show on tv, so I left the room for the rest of the night.

Then don't do it! Its all the same to me.. Good luck.

Well, in order to work, that time actually has to be spent giving each other your undivided attention, so if he's watching a man show, that's not it. He'd have to learn to CHANGE and do things that would make it enjoyable for you to spend time with him.

And even then it would still be awkward at first. New habits are always awkward at first, and when your accounts in each other's Love Banks are low or in the red you don't WANT to spend time together.

That is NOT undivided attention. Watching your H watch TV does not count. Watching the boob tube does not count.

So what could you do different than walking away?

Maybe you ask him to record the show because you want to do something with him, then invite him to join you doing something he enjoys.

What did you do when dating?

If you want to love your husband suggest and plan things you lnow he likes. Don't just walk away without suggesting things you know he likes.

I bowed out for a little bit... but I would say yes as well. And the program also dictates so.

Before my FWW had her A, I played computer games for 6-10 hours a day. That was my "passion." People online, strangers, understood me better than my spouse.

But, it didn't make me happy. It made me miserable and disconnected from my spouse - and it did the same to her (her side is her responsibility, though).


What do you notice about a lot of these senators, governers, presidents?

Do many of them have successful, let alone loving and romantic marriages?

I wouldn't say that it is wrong to have a cause, but I do believe that if you truly wish to pursue a cause, that you should acknowledge that the only thing that you will have time for, the only thing you will feel passion for, the only thing you will be married to, is your cause.

Yes, it is self-sacrificing, but it is also selfish and cruel to be an "activist" and hornswaggle anyone into a relationship with you, when your heart, mind, and soul are to be consumed by a cause.

Or, has it escaped you that almost all of the most famous and successful women activist WERE SINGLE ALMOST ALL OF THEIR LIVES?

That more successful and/or famous women activists HAVE NO CHILDREN?

They are soldiers of the cause, and that is their marriage, that is their family. You can't have both, because one or the other must suffer.

When UA time is sheduled once a week, the activities are discussed and agreed upon THEN. That way you aren't sitting there twiddling your thumbs on Monday night at 6:00. Or wasting your time sitting on the couch watching your H watch some stupid show. That is NOT how UA time works. There is already a PLAN. And once you work out one weeks schedule, the next week's activities are easier to agree upon because a precedent has been set.[or that activity has been rejected if it was found to be unenjoyable]

But the key is to schedule this all out the week before. It is much easier to stick to it when there is plan. Much easier to just blow off if one is just winging it.

AD - I feel for you. The thought of spending that time with BH was not appealing and it was very awkward at first because it felt like we had nothing in common.

However, BH and I notice SIGNIFICANT improvements in our relationship (my feelings and behaviour) when we get that time in and it makes it easier to get more time in because we are excited about doing it.

As much as I had a hard time getting the messages through my fog and pessimism, I have to totally agree with the following advice I was given:
- schedule the UA in advance so you know it will get done
- push aside the negative feelings at the beginning so that you get the time in (they will go away as more time is put in)
- UA time needs to be something you both enjoy
- UA activites should involve interacting with each other and not just "parallel play" (thanks for pointing that one out to me Melody)

For us, while we are still working on getting the hang of the UA and scheduling the time, I have found that even something simple like watching a favorite tv show together is good. I know, some will argue it is not good UA, but we often stop the show and chat about a topic or find something mutually funny and enjoy sharing those moments. Sometimes your UA isn't perfect in terms of MB, but it is a starting point and if it brings you closer together and gets you closer to better UA, that is what matters.

As for the hot topic about giving something up that you have a passion for or enjoy, I have the following view. An activity is ok if and ONLY if:
1 - you have POJA'd it and both agree you can spend time on it
2 - the time you spend doesn't interfere with UA
3 - it doesn't mean more to you than your marriage (ie: you would be willing to forego the activity to spend time with your spouse)

I had a professor at University once describe the following about getting your priorities in the right order. Imagine an empty jar, a pile of sand, a pile of pebbles, and a pile of rocks. They each represent something different...

Jar: Your life
Rocks: The "big" things - most important parts of your life (marriage, health, family)
Pebbles: Other "not as" important parts of your life (career, friends, passions)
Sand: The "little" things in your life (hobbies, distractions)

Now, if you start by filling your jar with sand, you won't be able to fill it with much else. However, if you put the rocks in first, you will still have room for some pebbles next, and finally, you will be able to fit in some sand. The key is the order in which to address them (the order in which you make time for them in your life).

As a Fred_in_VA said, get your priorities straight and spend the most effort on the most important parts of your life. Schedule your UA time (marriage) first, then go down your list of priorities and fit everything else in the remaining time.

Political activism is important, but if it is more important than your marriage, maybe you need to dial it down a bit. If it is your job, then leave it at 9-5. If you can't, it is time to make a choice - job or marriage. Some people can't maintain a marriage and a demanding career.

Athena!!! A very positive, uplifting post!!


Watching TV together is a good pastime, but remember to DEDUCT THAT TIME from your UA time because it doesn't count as UA time. It counts as a good recreation, you are very right about that, but it will not do the trick of amassing the necessary UA time to create romantic love.

That might sound like splitting hairs, but this is the kind of thing that makes all the difference between success and failure. For example, lets say you spent 15 hours a week watching TV together. You would not achieve romantic love and you would conclude this doesn't work. It is sort of like doing exercises, if you are going to take the time to do it, might as well get the biggest bang for your buck!

I've never thought about this topic of "recreational passions" before, but I'm starting to see how relevant it is to having a good marriage. Like writer, I enjoy writing. It's a passion. It's also a career for me. But I can see how that activity over the years has consumed time and passion that should have been devoted to my BH. Originally I would have agreed with writer--balance seemed like the solution. But in thinking about this more, I can see how a contrast effect could result. In fact, there were countless nights I spent writing while my BH sat on the couch watching TV. Our different "passions" (mine writing, his TV) divided us...physically!

After my A, I stopped writing altogether, stopped all other passions and focused solely on BH. Now that our M is growing, my BH wants me to be able to enjoy writing again, but not to our M's detriment. So I spend time writing while BH is at work. When he gets home it's all about each other. And the "passion" I once had for writing really isn't as passionate as I thought (a strange feeling, since I never thought anything could replace it). I get way more passion out of time with BH than I ever did with my writing. For me, quitting all outside passions had to happen before I could truly recover my M. And the only way I could continue those activities was after recovery and if my BH wanted me to, which he did--for two-fold reasons (1. It's how I earn a living, and 2. he wanted me to have some "me" time).

Does that sound Dr. Harley approved, or am I not quite getting it yet?

oops

P.S. I only bring up my example to encourage you, AD, that putting your interests aside for a period of time does not mean it's gone forever. It may just be a temporary sacrifice for the sake of the M, if you still have any interest in wanting to want the M.

In fact, there were countless nights I spent writing while my BH sat on the couch watching TV. Our different "passions" (mine writing, his TV) divided us...physically!

Wanthealing,

You are totally getting it, and in my very humble opinion, I believe that Dr. Harley would approve.

This was a wonderful post.