I'm quite sure you're fun to be around, when you're not dealing with a waytard.

My stbx had me so upset over his waywardness that I didn't feel like having fun with him during the last years we were together.

I would have had much more fun with a guy I could trust!

Well, time to update I guess. It will be short though.

Received mail notification of the mediation hearing today. Early May, and we'll be sitting across from each other laying out what we want. Well, custody wise. It will be interesting, since I'm sure she'll still be in the house at the time. She finally filed her taxes, and found that she owed money, so that has set her back on moving out. This is of course, my fault. Man, wish I could play the victim...but, we still have enough money to go partying and shopping. Oh, and also another interesting part is that I'm sure we won't have a pre-cursor conversation about an aggreement before the hearing.

Just got done watching The Next Three Days. NOT a good choice to watch a movie about a husband who stops at nothing to break his innocent wife out of jail, so that thier family can be together.

I almost posted a comment on her FB yesterday. Sometimes, I really wonder if my ability to listen to my better judgement holds me back from "living"... Read below for some good 'ol fashioned hypocrisy. (Oh, and pretty sure this is directed towards OM#3)

Since I didn't post on her FB, I'll post my comment here. I just have to somewhere!


On a lighter note, the new Foo Fighters album is awesome!

And, it looks like OM#2 is back in the picture. He's thousands of miles away, but thier FB friends again. Seems she's digging deep to find...something.

It still saddens me that she can't/won't change her view, and look towards her family (DS and I). Don't get me wrong. I DEFINITELY DO NOT want her as she is now. But, I "like" to think that even now, if she would start some real changes and make a commitment, I could keep going. But, it's just a pipe dream.

I've been going over what I'll say when she comes to me with the "I don't know why I do this" story. I say when, because I don't think she is strong enough still to finish what "she wants". And history leans heavily towards this. I decided that I will forego the want to just lambash her with all sorts of AO/DJ type behavior. Not because I want her see that I don't act like that anymore. But moreso because I know it won't accomplish anything; and I just don't WANT to do it. So I'm simply going to say, "Mrs. Itsa, I have tried my hardest to keep my family together. But at this point, I am not interested in who you are now." It will take every ounce of fortitude I have to keep it calm, and that short. But, I've learned that I have more fortitude than even I though I had.

Ahh...the coaster ride.

I have the same thoughts about my stbx too. And when I do, I hurt just thinking about it, because it does feel like a pipe dream, and I feel helpless. I can tell you love your wife, and I'm sorry you're hurting. It seems especially difficult when you know the tools for a great marriage are there, but only one is willing to use them.

I have written about 5 different paragraphs, and deleted them all. I just don't have the words for you. I'm in the same place and I feel more helpless to save my marriage with each and every day that goes by.

For now, we have to carry on so that one day we might be lucky enough to share with someone else what we've learned so far.

{{{{{{{{{Itsa}}}}}}}}}}}

It seems that we are both around the same timeline, as far as when our spouses checked out completely. I wonder if that's why we're in the same mindset right now.

Thanks for stopping by MJ.

No need to apologize for any lack of words, or "right things to say". And I know we're kind of in the same place, cycle wise. I was actually thinking about that yesterday, while trying to figure out why I still care what she's doing. I haven't had much to say on your thread either, but I'm glad that CP has kept up with you. And I have been reading. Something about that strange solace you get from keeping interest in other people's lives.

Yes, I do still "love" my STBX. But, I have realized (not that recently actually) that I was loving an "image" of my wife. The image I have, and the real world, are not matching up. Does it break my heart? Absolutely.

But, I have DS to worry about too. My "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" attitude does not make it easy to keep him unaware, and safe from my own feelings (hurt, anger, bleh). But, he's such a beautiful little person and a great time occupier. And I remind him everytime it comes up, that he should love his mother and his mother loves him; something I know will probably not be reciprocated. I just hope he learns what living a completely selfish life leads to.

We will make it through MJ. I've held myself down for long enough. I know there are "better" women out there. And I'm coming to grips that the sole fact that STBX is the mother of my child, doesn't give her exclusivity anymore.

"Keep moving forward" - Walt Disney

I get it. There were times when I was in a depression, and all I could do was read the forums for comfort. Outside of this forum, not too many people understand what this is like, unless they've been there. And then when I do talk to someone IRL about any of this, they've never heard of MB, so they are clueless to how affairs happens, or how to save the marriages.

Not to mention that I don't feel crazy when I know that all of us here go through the same thoughts, feelings, and emotions.



Same here. My stbx's actions didn't match up to what he told me. It was maddening.




Maybe you could teach him to hate the sin, but not the sinner. Maybe that will help him to separate his mother from her horrible actions.



He will. You're a living example and a huge influence in his life.



I have no doubt that we will. I use to think that my husband held me back, but I think I did that to myself. But I try not to regret doing what I thought was right, at the time I thought it was right.

Yes, there are definitely better women out there for you, and with what you've learned through all of this, any woman who you see will be lucky. Espcially because you can cook.



That's the plan.

Happy Easter Itsa.

Thanks MJ.

Happy Easter to you too! We're at my mother's, and the Easter Bunny was kind. DS is a little under the weather, but holiday's always tend to reduce the effects.

Well, FBland got notified that STBX got an apartment. Let's see when I hear the news. I'm just relieved something is moving, and that I may not have to endure her being in the house until the D is final.

But, as they always say, "Don't count your chickens before the eggs are hatched".

It is still somewhat bittersweet though. Keep moving forward, Itsa.

I really need to decide if I want to tell DS together, or seperate. I'm still not sure I can keep my cool; especially if she tries to "gloss it over" like it's been a mutual agreement. I may have asked before in this thread, but I'll ask again.

How do you explain all this to a 6 year old boy?

So, a little update is in order I guess. And of course, I am seeking some advice too.

STBXW did send me an email the day she found out she got an apartment. She of course did not tell me where, which she will find out she is legally required to do. It is not what I would consider a "good enviornment".

DS and I were at my mother's from Thursday to Sunday this past week. My sister, nephew, aunt, and uncle were all there too. We had a blast. DS did have some moments where he was crying, wanting to go home, and see STBX. Completely understandable, and I assured him that it's OK to feel that way, and that STBX and I love him and always will. This is the stuff that breaks my heart.

I tried calling STBX a couple of times so DS could talk to her, but she still hasn't put enough $ on her pre-paid cell phone to accept phone calls. She ended up calling me from work, after we had left my mother's Sunday evening. She was calling to inform DS that she would be home before he went to bed.

When we got home, I did a quick run around to see if she had packed anything, did a quick inventory (and inspection to see if anyone had been in my house), and decided to browse the pictures in her camera. More on this in a minute. But, nothing was packed, moved, and no evidence of anyone being in my house.

She arrived as we were getting ready for bed. DS began showing her some things we got from our weekend (picture of us and an item we got at the National Aquarium), and she of course didn't like being upstaged. So, she goes and grabs some things she had bought him over the weekend. A couple shirts, a book, some cups for her new apartment. Afterwards, DS turns to me and says, "Momma bought me all this stuff because she loves me". My heart totally sank. This poor child thinks that the only way his mother shows her love is through gift giving. She has always enjoyed that "privilidge" as I have been the bill payer. But, I see now that it has royally scewed DS's idea of showing love.

As he was getting in bed, and I'm kissing him goodnight, STBX was behind me waiting to read to him. DS out of the blue says while looking at her, "I was crying at Oma's". (Oma = grandma) I simply said, "Yes, you were". Then DS says, "Becuase I missed Momma". Me, "Yes". DS then says, to STBX, "Momma, I want you to be at Oma's". I decided to cut this "session" off, since he needed to goto sleep, and this was not the time to get into this whole conversation. As I walked downstairs, I was overjoyed. Sure, part of it is my human sense that she may have felt some guilt. But, most of it is because DS displayed what I have been working for over the past few months. It showed me that he felt comfortable enough to share his feelings, and that he wanted them to be known. STBX closed the door as she read the book, which is never done. And this brings me to the pictures in her camera, and DS's anxious and emotional moments over the past week.

I am pretty sure that STBX has told DS she is moving out. We have agreed up to this point, that DS should hear about the D from both of us at the same time in a single conversation. The pictures that I found on her camera, were of her and DS going to the "playground" at her new apartment complex. I was told they went to the park, and went for a walk. Sunday night, after seeing and verifying the pictures, I asked DS where he and his mother went last Thursday. He said they went for a walk. Then I asked him where. He started to say something, hesitated, then said "I don't know". I know that she is not above telling him "secrets", just like she did with her tattoo. And, as a wayward, secrets aren't foreign territory right?

So, the advice I'm seeking is this: How do I get DS to open up to me, without grilling him and forcing him to think he as betrayed his mother? I was thinking of possibly using the blunt approach and just flat out asking. Or maybe subtly start a conversation about secrets, and how they are wrong, and he should never be put in a position to keep a secret from either of us.

I sent her an email, letting her know that I still support telling him together. I also let her know that his behavior, and some other things (the pictures), lead me to believe that he has attained information about what is going on. I have thought printing out one of the pictures she took, and one of the playground from the apartments website (my verification source), and just leaving it somewhere.

I just don't understand why on earth someone would think this is the best way to go about...nevermind. She's not interested in DS's best interest. Being open and honest doesn't fit well with the lies, deception, and hypocrisy of wanting to leave a family for your own selfish reasons. So glad that I don't think like her....

My stbx has done the same thing. Truly a pathetic and selfish move when you have young kids, imo. I personally would have to feel ashamed of myself to hide my whereabouts. That, or be on the run from someone that might hurt me. I think waywards are so paranoid because deep down they know they're acting like pond scum, and they hide out.



Yay!!!!!!



My heart is breaking with you, for him. I hate wayward actions. SO selfish.



Lol....I did that a few times when I knew my stbx would be dropping by the house. I use to dread seeing if anything was gone. Now, I dread it when his chit isn't gone.



I understand why that bothers you, but it is fixable. You can ask him something like, "What other kinds of ways can you show love to someone?". I believe that question wouldn't minimize his mother's love for him, but will also show him love is more than gifts.



That's awesome. Good job Dad.



I like your second approach. However, I'm not a child psychologist. But it does seem that honesty and openess is what should be taught to our children.




Exactly.

I'm not a Bible thumper, but when I'm in doubt, I ask myself, WWJD?

You got this Itsa. Just think 10 Commandments. If everyone lived by those principles, it'd be a much, much better world to live in.

Well,

Didn't take long to put that plan into action. As we were reading his homework and papers from school, DS almost let something "slip". It had to do with a pool, which there is one at STBX's new apartment.

I asked DS what he was going to say. Then he started with the ultra nervous, I-don't-knows. So, I flat out asked him, "Is someone telling you to keep a secret". He denied it. So, I started a lesson in secrets. I first asked him if he though that secrets were "good". He responded yes. I then asked if they were bad. He responded yes..then no. Then, I asked him if telling lies was good. Immediate 'no'. So, then I began to explain how "keeping a secret" makes you lie. Then I explained/asked all over again, only substituting him as the one who the secret is kept from. I also started to tell him that NOONE should put him in that position.

Then, I again asked him if anyone told him to keep a secret. Immediate 'no'. Then, I went farther then I would have liked, but asked if his mother asked him to keep a secret. Hesitant 'no'. I then asked where they went last Thursday. Same answer as before. I told him that I knew where they went. He got REALLY tense. I mean REALLY tense. I let him know that I was not mad at him. That I would never be mad at him. I asked him to let me know anytime someone asked him to keep a secret. I had also put the secret keeping into perspective, that someone could be hurting him and tell him to keep it a secret. This IS a major concern as a parent, afterall. Right? I also told him, that if I ask him to keep a secret, for him to tell me "Poppa, that's not right!". I eluded that I'm not perfect, even though I can't imagine myself putting him in that position.

So, fast forward to about 15 minutes ago. I come upstairs, and I hear DS start giving STBX the "If someone asks you to keep a secret" scenario. She doesn't play along. So he starts telling her that secrets are bad, and that I said so. STBX SAYS "No. Secrets aren't bad.". DS replies, "Yes they are". STBX explains it away as "people have different opinions on secrets". I swear, if it weren't for the fact that I'd end up getting arrested, I'd go down there and forcefully remove her from my house if I had to. This [censored] is rediculous.

I would strongly urge you to tell your WW that asking children to keep "secrets" is what enables child molesters to get away with sexually abusing children. She is teaching son that he must keep secrets even if it means he's being hurt. GOD I would like to pull her hair out by the roots!!!! I taught my son when he was very young that if someone tells you its a secret and he shouldn't tell Mom or Dad he should IMMEDIATELY tell because there should be NOTHING he keeps from Mom or Dad....and that was AFTER WXH left and we were divorced!

QFT!!!

Well, seing as how she was molested as a teen by several members of her family; I'm pretty sure I'd be better off explaining that to a wall. Also, if she agrees that secrets are bad, then she has to own up to the fact that she's a bad person. We can't have that in righteous-fantasy land, now can we?

It's just cannon fodder for me though. What mediator or judge would, in thier right mind, see this as acting in the best interest of the child?

Oh, and mediation is Thursday... Just another wake up call.

EDIT:
Oh, and did I mention that there is a registered sex offender living in her apartment complex? Probably within 300 yards of her apartment...

I'm sorry Itsa. Secretive, lying, waytards suck. I honestly think it would suck to be them. (I've hit an angry stage in my recovery, and my language sucks...lol)

I have another suggestion. You might be able to find an age appropriate book on lying and secrets. If you read this to him out of a book, that might help your son to distinquish between being decent and dishonest. He might be confused on which parent to believe, so if it's in a book it might help?

I need to remind myself to hate the acts, not the actors.

Please be sure the mediator knows there is a registered sex offender in her new apartment complex. SOOOOOOOOOOOOO fighting the urge to come and rip her hair out by its roots. OOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!

LOL MJ, we're keeping lockstep with our coaster ride. If it weren't for my logical, linear thinking...I would probably be explaining the last 3 years to a cop right now.

And, I'm pretty sure that DS know's secrets are wrong. He has learned the lesson about lieing very well. Once I explained to him that in order to keep a secret, you have to lie, I think he made the connection. One thing I will NEVER apologize for, is not letting my child get away with breaking the rules. There is a reason I ALWAYS get comments on how well-behaved DS is. I hope he's also realized how "taxed" he's been emotionally, trying to keep these secrets from me, AND be loyal to his mother.

He also respects me much more than STBX. He knows I love him, even if I don't give him a bunch of gifts. And knows that I don't runaway when stuff gets heavy. He has never forgotten when STBX ran away for a month. And that was 3 years ago...

Brits_Brat, you better believe it. With more to boot...

Hunh, that's funny because I was thinking the same thing, sorta. I was thinking about whether or not a judge would actually be a "judge" and listen to me describe the hell of the last four years, and then have him reign down bolts of lighting and hell on the waytards head. Ah, one can dream.



I think you've been doing an excellent job with your son, considering the nightmare you've both been living. Your son will respect you. Both of my kids respect me, not the wayward. They're older and voice their opinions to me.

Stbx was able to give them more for Christmas than I was. It didn't matter one bit. They almost felt guilty for accepting his gift, because they don't respect or like him as a person, for the most part. Money will NOT buy you love and respect, just as lying will not earn it either.

Itsa- tough situation your are in and I feel for you. I am also outraged by your WWs behavior and the whole secret thing. Maybe the mediator can help show her the light regarding how to deal with the kids in this situation, but maybe not.

I think you should continue as you are doing with DS. Be as open and honest about your own feelings in an age appropriate way. As you mentioned, he knows who can be counted on and who to trust. I wouldn't ask directly but in conversations talk around the issue a little bit. Relate a similar story (or make one up) about you being put in a similar situation. Maybe mention how hard it was for you when you were in 4th grade and you knew a friend had cheated on a test or something and asked you to keel it a secret and then the teacher asked you directly if your friend was cheating. Explain how you understand the feelings of being placed in a tough ethical dilemma and get to what the right thing to do is. Plant the seed and see if he opens up more later. Just a suggestion.