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HOW TO PLAN B CORRECTLY
This is for those who need to go into Plan B and need quick, concise instructions. There is a lot of confusion on how to go into Plan B and what a correct Plan B actually looks like.
TIMING
~Do not go into Plan B quickly. It takes time to prep for Plan B. I went into Plan B in about 48 hours from the time I discovered we had been in a false recovery, and that�s really the quickest you can expect to be able to do this and do a good job of getting all of your ducks in a row. Except for eating and sleeping, I worked on getting ready for Plan B for those whole 48 hours, too. Prepping for Plan B is CRUCIAL and it takes a lot of TIME. Do not skimp on your planning otherwise it will backfire on you. Once you give that PBL to your WS, you want to be able to stay completely dark.
DETAILS ON HOUSING
~DO NOT worry about where the WS is going to live or how he/she is going to pay for it. This is not the BS�s problem. A WS should never be shielded from the consequences of their affair, and this is indeed a consequence. Only worry about yourself and your children at this point. If the WS was able to carry on in an affair all by him/herself, he/she can certainly figure this out. You have enough to worry about.
INTERMEDIARY (IM)
~Find an IM. There is no substitute for this. Do not underestimate the importance of an IM. Do not think �only� text messages or �only� emails are acceptable. They aren�t. YOU MUST FIND AN IM. It can be a family member, a friend or (best bet) someone from MB. A CLOSE family member (parent or in-law) isn�t recommended ~ they are usually not able to stay neutral enough and if you get into recovery this could be difficult.
IM�s ROLE
~An IM�s sole purpose is to be a SPAM FILTER (Steve Harley�s words), allowing only communication that fits the boundaries set forth in Plan B (i.e., regarding children and finances ONLY). It�s usually recommended that most of the communicating be done via email, that way everything is in writing. Phone calls and text messages are permissible but most find emailing easiest. My IM re-wrote emails between us in her own words in order to avoid any emotional tones/responses.
They do not share any other info the WS sends, regardless of how benign the content. ONLY pertinent info is to be sent through to the BS. The IM is also not to share any info about the BS with the WS. Pertinent info about children and finances only should be passed back and forth.
The IM is to remain neutral...just a messenger sending info on, no reactions.
If the WS sends something inappropriate, the IM is to thank the WS for the communication, but let the WS know it will not be shared with the BS and refer the WS back to the PBL.
If the WS tries to contact the BS in any way, the IM is to tell the WS that the BS has not opened/listened to whatever it is, and the IM is to refer the WS back to the IM for all communication.
CHANGING THE LOCKS ON YOUR HOUSE
~This is very important so that the WS cannot come back into the marital home whenever he/she pleases. I called a locksmith out at about 10:00 pm on a Saturday night, he was very helpful. I didn�t have cash and didn�t want my WH to see on our credit card that I had called a locksmith, so he even followed me to a nearby grocery store to pull money out. He was very accommodating and seemed to understand that I was in trouble.
A second option instead of changing the locks is to simply put a deadbolt on any door to which the WS has a key. Also, if there is a garage door opener with a keypad, the keypad code needs to be changed. If you don�t have a keypad (only openers) and the WS has one, make sure to deadbolt/change the lock on the door between the garage and house. It is legal to change the locks on your own home, so do not be concerned about this.
PLAN B LETTER
Sample Plan B letter, from SAA (revised edition) pages 77-78:
My Dearest __________,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair possible. I foolishly pursued my goals without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. [Add your willingness to address other complaints that the unfaithful spouse may have communicated prior to the affair.]
I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship once and for all. Living with you under these conditions has been the most painful experience of my life, and I can no longer endure it.
Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends, ________, have agreed to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. They will provide transportation. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through them.
I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you th is way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are together. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you.
I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.
I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.
With all my love,
(signed)
This letter should be delivered by your friends to the unfaithful spouse, and a copy sent to the lover with a note at the bottom saying:
I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for that chance.
ADDENDUM
~In the addendum will be the logistics of how full NC between the BS and WS will be carried out. Here you will list the drop off and pick up points of children, who will be your IM, how the financial obligations will work. This is NOT part of your PBL, but it WILL be given to the WS when the PBL is delivered.
In the addendum you will also let the WS know that you have packed up all of THEIR personal belongings (no household items) and that the WS's boxes will be left __________ (on the front porch or driveway, second option would be a friend or family member's home) until ________ (usually 2-3 days from the time the letter is given). I packed up all of my H's belongings in about 30 minutes. This shouldn't take long.
IF THE WS ATTEMPTS CONTACT
IGNORE HIM/HER if it comes in the form of a phone call, email, text message, etc. Let the IM know and ask the IM to reiterate to the WS again that all contact MUST go through the IM.
If it�s in person, walk away. My H caught me in our garage one day, he was early picking the kids up and I was not yet locked in the safety of the house. He commented that he liked my new haircut. I smiled and quickly walked in the house. I did NOT talk to him or thank him for the compliment.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. 
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Intermediary Training School Parallel Parenting in Plan B Sample Plan B letter, from SAA (revised edition) pages 77-78: My Dearest __________, I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair possible. I foolishly pursued my goals without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. [Add your willingness to address other complaints that the unfaithful spouse may have communicated prior to the affair.] I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship once and for all. Living with you under these conditions has been the most painful experience of my life, and I can no longer endure it. Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends, ________, have agreed to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. They will provide transportation. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through them. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you th is way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are together. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions. As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you. I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend. I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship. With all my love, (signed) This letter should be delivered by your friends to the unfaithful spouse, and a copy sent to the lover with a note at the bottom saying: I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for that chance.
Last edited by Denali; 10/17/16 06:24 PM. Reason: added Plan B Letter
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Dr Harley recommended that I plan B after divorce.
Do I send a Plan B letter to my wife after divorce?
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Dr Harley recommended that I plan B after divorce.
Do I send a Plan B letter to my wife after divorce? I would have your attorney construct a sort of Plan B letter to your EX-wife. Very business like. Stating how any NECESSARY business will be conducted without direct contact in the future.
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To add to this wonderful thread, a reminder about legal advice and protecting valuables and finances.
Waywards, even if they have previously been responsible in the past, are notoriously irresponsible in Plan B.
They will take your money and valuables.
They will not support you financially.
The first job is to be prepared to move all funds from joint accounts, and consider how to protect valuables and assets from a desperate wayward. Make a list of these concerns.
See a lawyer in the first instance with this list. Many offer a free consultation on your first trip.
Interview a few lawyers and make a choice of the best advice/best rates.
Tell them you will be separated for a period of time and you expect your spouse to be financially irresponsible during that time. Ask for a plan on how to best protect yourself, such as a separation agreement or filing for a D (you don't have to finalise the D).
With your legal advice in hand, protect your finances and valuables as well as you are able. Make sure you can support yourself through Plan B and that a child visitation schedule is set up, which your IM will enforce.
In my situation legal advice wasn't as vital because I earn my own salary and don't have children.
Nevertheless I went to see a lawyer straight away and discovered filing for a D would protect my stake in the marital assets, prevent him running up debts I would be liaible for and would also protect my credit rating.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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How to know when to end Plan B? From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67 The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted. These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives. Checklist for How Affairs Should End _____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse. _____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again. _____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse. _____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP: _____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse). _____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers). _____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent). _____Spend leisure time together. _____Change jobs and relocate if necessary. _____Avoid overnight separation. _____Allow technical accountability. _____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends. Revised Extraordinary Precautions-from Surviving an Affair
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I just want to add that the IM should be same sex, a relative - or a married couple. If a married couple don't speak to the husband if you are a wife or vice versa. You either speak with them together or with the same-sex half.
Don't speak one on one to a member of the opposite sex about your troubled marriage!
That's how your spouse got into an affair!
A Plan Ber would be tremendously vulnerable to an affectionate member of the opposite sex who would be looking after them in this role.
Good boundaries mean NOT making close, personal links and discussing intimate problems with members of the OS.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Hi All,
Indiegirl asked me to post about how to avoid 'passive contact" from the internet and/or social media while in Plan B. In my case, my WH and the OW are BIG social media uses. In fact, social media was the main avenue for communication that helped start their affair. In my case, the OW knew I was looking at her social media and would use it to taunt me directly.
It was important for me once I got into Plan B to cut off those avenues of knowing what they were up to, although it took a long time. So here is my advice for shutting down those avenues.
1) Exposure (especially internet exposure): Often times exposure itself gets the WS and OP to shut down social media, etc. In my case, the OW had just about every social media app known to man and with internet exposure she either closed or made private most of them. So for instance, she shut down tumblr, myspace (yes, myspace!!) and twitter. Then she made instagram private and facebook semi-private. This was good for me because instagram and tumblr were excruciatingly painful to me. She would write missives about "wanting him forever" and crazy stuff like that. WH made facebook semi-private but left instagram open.
2) DELETE your own social media: I highly recommend just out and out deleting your accounts. Not blocking. Not deactivating, but deleting. Why so drastic? Social media tools are highly addictive in and of themselves. It's way too easy to unblock someone or reactivate your account in a moment of weakness. I found that I did that a few times and then I finally made the decision to totally delete facebook. You can download your photos and notify your real friends that you are doing it before you do it. Like most addictive things, you'll find that you actually don't really miss it once it's gone.
2) BLOCK your own access to open social media: I also eventually had to block my own access to "open" social media. For example, I didn't have instagram, but there are about 5 million instagram webviewers, so you can view an open instagram account from any computer. Also, I had to resist the temptation to open a facebook "dummy" account. The best way for me to do this, was to download parental controls for my phone and web browser. For my ipohone, I disabled Safari and downloaded "web protect me" and for my PC, I downloaded 'Simple Blocker" for Chrome. For both of them, I blocked all the social media sites as well as WH's business web page, and blocked myself from searching OW's name (all that comes up is the internet exposures I put up. Then I had a FRIEND password protect the settings, so I couldn't undo it. Sometimes it blocks legitimate websites, but it's worth it.
4) Have a friend hold you accountable: This is a step I have not taken, but if I found myself slipping again or getting around the protections, I would put a keylogger on my own stuff and have a friend hold me accountable.
Not knowing ANYTHING about what they are doing is essential to healing. In an age of social media, that can be very difficult and they may try to rub it in your face. I was presented with an OW who is clearly a narcissist and wants everyone to know what she is doing at all times. It was essential that I protected myself from that level of abuse. If you find yourself faced with the same situation, please do what you can to cut yourself off from the social media addiction/knowing what they are up to addiction. It is not beneficial in the least.
Last edited by PigletWiglet; 05/27/15 10:36 AM.
Me: 38, have been divorced for 4 years
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That is some stellar Plan Bing!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I've been in Plan B for coming up to a month and have a few observations that I think might help others as they embark on this process. I don�t yet know if my WH, a serial cheater, has it within himself to change, but I know that by taking this course of action (which is totally opposite to what I have done during his previous affairs) I am giving myself the best chance of getting through this trauma and being happy afterwards � whether with him or not.
Your feelings at the start
I would imagine most BSs will, like me, experience conflicted feelings about totally cutting off contact with waywards because we have got ourselves into the habit of bending over backwards to fight for our marriages alone - and it seems so counter intuitive to suddenly do something that feels like stopping the fight. However, I found that within a very short period - a few days of NC with WH - that I felt such relief at being insulated from the drama and let downs associated with trying, with zero success, to persuade him to change with my words and actions. This peace and calm gives you your life back. It gives you the ability to cope. It stops you finding out that they have lied to you AGAIN. It stops you being destroyed by ridiculous hurtful things your WS is doing or saying - and it is important for you to be insulated from this stuff because it really is nonsense in the long run, but can cause deep deep wounds that may never heal if you are exposed to it. Most of all it allows you to see that a half-hearted effort to come back home, or meaningless statements that they want to save the marriage, are actually far more devastating (and dangerous) to you because of the absence of real desire to change than it would be if you just didn't hear them at all.
As Plan B becomes established
As you start to feel the benefits of Plan B, the NC becomes something you actively want. At the beginning you might feel like you want to read WS's emails trying to get you back, or you want to see smses and calls because you are craving any sign from them that they have woken up from their fog and are giving you the love and care you so desperately want from them. You want to see them show you they are sorry. So you leave little doors and windows open for them. Perhaps you don�t really change your number. Perhaps you allow them to send emails directly to you. Perhaps you keep checking their facebook page or engaging in all sorts of discussions with friends and family, even with your supposedly independent IM, about what your WS might be thinking, feeling or doing. The problem is, if you have had to go into Plan B, they aren't sorry YET. So engaging in this sort of wishful thinking just hurts you more � and limits the effectiveness of the plan you have embarked on. What their communications show you is that they want the cake-eating phase back. Not you, not the marriage, but they are trying to get back into having the best of all worlds again. If you don't block out these insincere approaches you are at huge risk of being hurt even more and starting a false recovery - and you will be giving up all the power you have gained by taking action.
Taking back the power!
The real beauty of Plan B is that while you are taking back control of your life and looking after your own health, you are also taking a step that will have the maximum possible impact on your WS to give them the incentive to change their behaviour. None of your shouting, crying, pleading, or guilt-tripping will have any effect on someone in the fog. But by going dark, you take away all the things they took for granted. When they started their affair they thought they would be able to keep it secret forever. They thought it wouldn�t affect their family. They thought they could have their cake and eat it. And as the affair became established, and you reacted by trying to win their love and attention back, you inadvertently confirmed to them that they are the ones in the position of power because they get to decide on YOUR future. There really is no better way to show them the real implications of what they have done by having their affair than by letting them live the consequences of destroying their family and feeling what it would be like to be divorced. Plan B gives YOU the power and it gives the WS the incentive to change � while also showing them, crucially, that there is a way back.
When they say they want to come back
They will all say this. But the trick from the BSs point of view is to be able to work out whether they really want to come back to the marriage, and accept that repairing it will be a long and extremely hard process, or if they want to go back to how things were before when they had both their AP and their family (cake eating). At the beginning, you will probably be fighting against your own instincts to make it as easy for them to come back as possible. You are worried they might conclude you don�t want them anymore if you ignore their communication attempts. You will spend hours wondering if your plan B letter was clear enough. Ask yourself if perhaps you shouldn�t just clarify what exactly they need to do, maybe they need some helpful hints or a nudge in the right direction? STOP! You will never get the spouse you want and the marriage you want if you prevent your WS from coming to the conclusion that they want to fight for your marriage THEMSELVES. By going into Plan B, you have created the best possible set of conditions to motivate them to take this decision. Any additional �nudging� by you will only undermine the power you have taken for yourself. As time goes on, though, you will get smarter and more clear in your own mind about what they need to do. You will start to see through the fog babble and gas-lighting, and you will see how desperately they are trying to evade any real accountability. When you see these things, just take comfort that the plan is working. Remember that if your spouse attempts reconciliation with anything other than a willingness to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to save the marriage, they are not going to have the commitment to make it through recovery, so the marriage will not work long-term anyway. Protect yourself and your future and set that bar super-high! You have got nothing to lose at all by having high standards. Before you consider any sort of recovery talk, you must be 100% confident that they have ENDED THEIR AFFAIR and eliminated the possibility of restarting it again.
PS. There is some additional information from Steve Harley in the "Intermediary school" thread about how to deal with reconciliation approaches by the WS.
BW (me) 40 WH, serial cheater, 41 Four children: DS1 8 DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me) DS3 6 DD 2 D-day Jan 4 2017 Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017 Plan D Aug 28 2017 Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017 "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Thank you, this is exactly on point! I separated from H on 5/29/17 and thought I was doing Plan B, but then got in this board and was shown that what I was doing was actually a cake eaters dream come true so I made a lot of adjustments, which did have an impact because it made WS come back with false offers of reconciliation and caused me to break from my plan B on several occasions, but luckily have not been tricked into false recovery (at least since starting plan B).
It's been sometime for you now, what is your perspective at this point?
BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3
D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18
DD 2: 2/14/20
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Thank you, this is exactly on point! I separated from H on 5/29/17 and thought I was doing Plan B, but then got in this board and was shown that what I was doing was actually a cake eaters dream come true so I made a lot of adjustments, which did have an impact because it made WS come back with false offers of reconciliation and caused me to break from my plan B on several occasions, but luckily have not been tricked into false recovery (at least since starting plan B).
It's been sometime for you now, what is your perspective at this point? Hi amac, I have also had trouble implementing plan B properly because WH tried really hard to force his way back into the house numerous times. He even got his lawyer to write a lengthy claim of "unlawful separation" against me, after he suddenly woke up to the fact that I wasn't going to just beg him to come back. It has now been around 4 and a half months since I threw him out and he is still trying these half-hearted attempts to come back without actually making any changes to his lifestyle. I initially struggled not to respond to them (i think i rationalised it myself that I didn't want him to get discouraged by not getting a response from me), but it has got a lot easier over time because I see how useless these offerings are and I am much clearer in my own mind about what it would take for me to feel safe in this marriage - and I have definitely resolved I don't want a marriage where I don't feel safe. He devotes a lot of energy to his PR campaign to get other people to tell me how absolutely unreasonable I am for not accepting his offers to do a few things from the EP list while avoiding the really significant ones, and he is still doing a lot of shouting about how I am his wife and I must move to be where he is, rather than the other way round. I told him he must leave his job because, even though he has moved away from OW, it is still with the same company and he still has the same email address. He refuses. But now that I have moved away with the kids and have a nice new life independent of him, it's absolutely fine with me that he continues to argue and refuse. He can do that for as long as he wants but eventually he will realise no one is listening, and refusing to do things just means he does not have a family. So he is the ultimate loser. He is nowhere near that realisation yet - and unless he gets there, reconciliation is impossible. He really has to hit rock bottom, have some kind of epiphany that all of this is his fault, and then work out FOR HIMSELF that he needs to try anything he can otherwise he will have lost his family. I've realised that nothing I can say or do will deliver that epiphany for him. I just have to look after myself and the kids and leave him to it. I think taking as much of his money as possible will speed up the epiphany, so I am working on that  What I do think, though, is that when we go into plan B or start this MB process, we BSs often underestimate the pull of marriage and family to a WS. Marriage is not just another relationship like the affair is. Marriage is status, it is security, it is a lifetime. And once you remove yourself from the drama that gives your WS a reason to blame you for the situation, he will have no option but to look inside himself and be sad for what he has lost. That is what I believe, anyway.
Last edited by chalkncheese; 07/05/17 07:32 AM.
BW (me) 40 WH, serial cheater, 41 Four children: DS1 8 DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me) DS3 6 DD 2 D-day Jan 4 2017 Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017 Plan D Aug 28 2017 Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017 "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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PS. Now that I have moved, after being through these months of a patchy plan B and seen how pointless it is, I am so eager to have zero contact at all. Having these breaks in Plan B just gives WH the idea that his half-attempts get him somewhere. So he carries on not trying hard enough, and I just get more tired and frustrated at his total lack of effort, and my love for him goes down and down. I now know that my having contact with him is exactly the thing that prevents him feeling the effect of being on his own and realising that he needs to change (and that he, in fact, wants to change to get his family back). So I am back to Plan B properly from today. I will keep on posting updates to let you all know how things go from here.
BW (me) 40 WH, serial cheater, 41 Four children: DS1 8 DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me) DS3 6 DD 2 D-day Jan 4 2017 Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017 Plan D Aug 28 2017 Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017 "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Thanks for the update chalkncheese, so brave of you to move away! Def would make the Plan B situation easier and make WS feel the total loss of his family. You are right to that the contact with them prevents them from feeling the full effects of their actions and will delay the epiphany that is needed. That is what I am struggling with right now though with my WH. He has been out of the house for a month, sees his children he claims are his top priority for a grand total of 8 hours a week, out in public. All friends and family against him and OW is married with kids and still living with her husband so she cant be occupying that much of his time - but still no epiphany from him only a few half hearted attempts. But I think that my plan B breaks have contributed to him not feeling the total loss yet, right now he claims he is still in the "figuring himself out phase." Ugh
BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3
D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18
DD 2: 2/14/20
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Thanks for the update chalkncheese, so brave of you to move away! Def would make the Plan B situation easier and make WS feel the total loss of his family. You are right to that the contact with them prevents them from feeling the full effects of their actions and will delay the epiphany that is needed. That is what I am struggling with right now though with my WH. He has been out of the house for a month, sees his children he claims are his top priority for a grand total of 8 hours a week, out in public. All friends and family against him and OW is married with kids and still living with her husband so she cant be occupying that much of his time - but still no epiphany from him only a few half hearted attempts. But I think that my plan B breaks have contributed to him not feeling the total loss yet, right now he claims he is still in the "figuring himself out phase." Ugh Hi amac, "figuring himself out" is just wayward speak for enjoying himself while keeping you hanging on. He would figure himself out pretty sharpish if he really thought his family was at risk. It is all about what he considers his priority and what he is prepared to put effort into. Right now, his priority is the affair and that is not going to change unless conditions change to make the affair not such a great feel-good option anymore. That is what exposure does. People act when they feel like they have to act. People have motivation for doing things that they want to do. Because those are the things that make them feel good. You are allowing him to feel like he has all the time in the world to enjoy himself while you sit there waiting for him. So stop enabling him to be a cake-eater. He will NOT choose family responsibility and the difficult emotional journey to recovery while he has another option right in front of him that delivers that feel-good drug on demand. So waiting for him to figure himself out just means you are hoping that the OW suddenly decides she doesn't want him anymore and he doesn't have any other options but to come home. That is not a plan that will work.
BW (me) 40 WH, serial cheater, 41 Four children: DS1 8 DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me) DS3 6 DD 2 D-day Jan 4 2017 Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017 Plan D Aug 28 2017 Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017 "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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That's what I'm having trouble understanding is how the affair can still feel good at this point. I have exposed to everyone possible, even on OWs side. His family and friends are all against him. I think the big problem is that OW is still living with her husband, so it prolongs the fantasy for them that the times are hard now but when they can be together everything will be ok. I wish her H would kick her out already so they can both get a dose of reality. I am in the process of filing for divorce now. I know I can't wait for him. Its not what I want, but I know I have to.
BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3
D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18
DD 2: 2/14/20
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This one should be in the plan B thread: Mimi, I am headed back tomorrow from my 2 week training exercise, so I havent been able to follow along. So, forgive me if I am not up to speed. I too have counseled with Steve Harley. I have read all of the stuff from the Harley's. And as you know, my wife is home now and we are working on our recovery. That being said...it may be time to break out the 2x4 on you (and maybe even LadyLou...sorry girl, most of the time we agree...but Mimi is way to close to screw up now). Correct me if I am wrong...you sent a Plan B letter, right? It said NC between you and him until OW is gone for good, right? What's the problem here? Your WH KNOWS the way back. As you said, he remembers your great Plan A. OOOHHHHH how he remembers. Each day that the OW continues to LB and look like the ugly toad, is each day that he can remember his life with you, and the time where you showed him his future with you (Plan A). That is the whole Plan A idea. To put in his mind what can be. But, as Steve Harley has told me before, rarely can you do just Plan A. Most of the time, it requires Plan B to bring them out of the fog. You know the jargon, so I wont repeat it (about saving your love for him, your husband gets stuck having his needs met by OW, etc). All of this is absolutely true. So, Mimi has done a great Plan A. Then, she goes and does a reasonably well Plan B. And predictably, your WH is following the script and being led out of the fog. Why is this hapening? Seriously, ask yourself why these events are now happening. Try to put yourself in your husbands shoes. It goes something like this... Now fully in Plan B, originally (early on), it was a relief to have the constant reminder of his failings (you) in front of him. It was nice to think that he was finally going to be able to be alone with her and maybe see what happens. But, from the moment this quiet time started, something began not to feel right. Left to their own devices, the two of them begin to let their guard down and show their real selves. There is no longer an outside enemy to their relationship. But wait a minute. Now that you can look at it from the outside...oopppps, I can see a small crack, an enemy within put in place by Mimi. What is that enemy? It is the combination of Plan A in his mind, and that damned Plan B letter (his way out of the mess). In the back of his mind, a crisis is developing. He has seen Mimi at her best. She has now given him a letter explaining how he can have that again. And now she is gone. Now, he is truly alone with the OW. And she is now at her "best." Problem is, that nagging feeling in the back of his mind that there is something better back home begins to creep into their relationship. Devious, huh? (One note...ENJOY Plan B! You should absolutely enjoy it. Why? As far as I am concerned, it is payback time. For the hurt, pain...for the loss of control over your own world. In Plan B, the power begins to shift back to the BS...so much so that the WS ends up in a position in the end of almost total submission to the will of the BS...more on that below). So, he unkowingly has been setup for failure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . And so, it is only a matter of time before things make it to critical mass. In your case, I definitely see the needle in the red zone! So, due to your devious virus you have put into their relationship (Plan A and B), you have set the timer on the destruction of their relationship. It is about ready to blow. But wait a minute! Just before your WH and OW are about to be emotionally blown out of the water, you want to save him. Why is that? This is your chance at payback. He made his bed, let him lie in it. Let him feel the FULL brunt of the consequences of his actions. Shoot, I LOVE what Orhid did by sending her husband back when he first inquired. Now why do I say all of this? First of all, it is good for you. It will help you to feel better by knowing that you werent the only one that got to feel pain here. And the beauty of this, it is HIS actions that are causing his own pain. The second reason to stay the course is that if you rescue him now, he will have learned nothing. He will not have felt the complete utter despair of the guilt of what he has done, and the knowledge of what he is about to lose. I know you love him Mimi, and most of us want to spare our spouses as much pain as possible. But Mimi, he NEEDS to hurt. He needs to feel this. He needs to understand EXACTLY what damage hus actions have caused. If you try to help him now, he will learn nothing. And you are doomed to repeat it. How many of us BSs are going to go back to treating our spouses like we treated them before the A? None, I would guess. Why? Because who the heck wants to go back through this pain again. We will do anything to be the spouses that our spouses need. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY MARRIAGES THAT REBUILD AFTER SOMETHING LIKE THIS ACTUALLY END UP STRONGER...IT IS CALLED FEAR OF PAIN. Dr. Harley mentions this on the website here. That once recovery starts, most couples do so with great zeal. Why? Because they want to get as far away from the hurt as possible...and never, ever go back there. Now, Mimi...your husband isnt stupid (although the choice of an affair, and even the quality of affair partner, may leave his intelligence open to question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). He has read your Plan B letter. He knows the way out. His calls to you, to your son, are cries for help. They are cries for help because he is looking for a way out of his increasing pain anyway he can...except for the only way that you have spelled out. In order to do it your way, he has to fully delve into the pain. He doesnt want to do that. So, Mimi sends him flowers for the anniversay, of cards, or whatever. And then you spare him the pain. But you are also sparing him the ability to get his life back together. He NEEDS that pain. Sometimes, it isnt love to spare pain. If someone needs a surgery done, there is great pain...but all for that persons good. If you dont get the surgery, you may save some temporary intial pain...but the pain that comes from neglecting what they needed to fix, will come back ten times stronger later. Mimi, do not spare him the pain. In the middle of my Plan B last December, I made it a point that we would not spend one minute together over Christmas. No family time with her, me and the kids. No sharing of Christmas lists on what to buy the kids. No joint Christmas where we could be together as a family. Nothing. Did it hurt. Sure. But it was the BEST thing I could have done for my marriage. My wife went off the charts angry when two weeks into Plan B, I would not back down and have a good Christmas together "for the sake of the kids." She went so ballistic that she flung herself at the OM, planned a trip to Florida with the OM over Christmas to meet his family, and actively pushed her situation in order to quickly move her life forward with him. But all that did was hasten the death of the relationship. The kids were with me Christmas day. The next day, she picked up the kids (since she had by then returned from Florida) and kept them at her apartment for two days. But my kids even said...it wasnt really Christmas. My wife was out of it most of the time, and didnt seem to want to spend much time with them after they opened their presents. She would lay on the couch, and take naps (all of this is very uncharacteristic of her with the kids). Mimi, her pain had increased. He trip to Florida had been a disaster. She met his family and saw how he acted around them...and didnt like it. She saw how he wasnt being a real dad to his two daughters that were living in Florida with his ex. And one night while there, while they were having sex, the OM called my wife by his ex wife's name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> . Her pain was now off the charts. So, after having the kids for two days, she brings them back and wants to talk. I told her that I wasnt going to talk, as was outlined in my PBL. Now, if she was ready to talk NC with OM, then we had something there. She said she needed time, that there was a lot she needed to work through...and couldnt I just be a friend to her and be there for her while she worked it out (gag!)? Well, NO! That would be what we call ENABELING! I told her OM or MM. I reiterated the PBL...even asking her she needed another copy. She then got angry, saying I never cared for her or her views...that this just proves that I will never be there for her and the changes she has seen in me are false...blah, blah, blah! I told her "Whatever...honey, you know the way out of this." ANd I turned around and walked back into my house. For the next 3 weeks, I heard nothing from her. Once or twice a week, she would call or come by to see the kids. I wouldnt talk to her. Just passed the phone to the kids. Or if she was coming to get them, my oldest watched for her and then they ran out to meet her and left with her. I went completely DARK! Well three weeks later, there is a surprise knock on my door at 8pm at night. It seems my wife has just gotten off work, and wanted to come by to see the kids. So, I let her in, I went into the kitchen and she went downstairs with the kids. TEN MINUTES later, she comes up (so, she came to see the kids huh?). She wants to talk. She says she wants to discuss some things. I asked what. She started to try to berate me, to get me to engage in a conversation...or an argument iif she could. I told her she had to leave. She asked "What if I dont?" I told her I would call the police. She then said "Well, I guess you are going to have to do that." So, for the next 4 hours, we sat at my kitchen table while she told me everything, and told me how she wanted to know how to get this all back. I reiterated that she had to have NC with OM...and that she (and then both of us later) needed counseling. I let her leave without promisisng anything. As a matter of fact, she tried to suck me in again as she went to walk out the door, asking me to give her time. I told her no, that the letter stands. And then I told her that under no circumstances was she to EVER just drop by again. There was a look of surprise in her eyes. Here she thought we had a great conversation, and probably thought she had me back on the reservation and supporting her fence sitting due to our calm conversation (with even some laughter in it). And then I end it by saying nothing has changed, dont drop by again, do not call...until Plan B letter requirements are met. A week later, she says she in a phone message that she knows she has to end things with OM, even if we do not work out (the first real crack!). I DO NOT RESPOND! Then, she calls and says that she has made an appointment with the same counselor that me and the kids are going to. She asks if I want to do marriage counseling together. I reply back to her that...no, no marriage counseling until we have a marriage. I will go to counseling with her, only in regards to the kids (as they were seeing this counselor also). So, I went to two sessions with her, where she tried to get counselor to enlist me in baking her a large cake <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . The counselor didnt...and I didnt. As a matter of fact, after the second time...I refused to go anymore. She could go with the kidso n her own time, and me on mine. I was playing hardball. Always the same message. It is shortly thereafter, that in the midst of my wife being VERY sick, and OM LBing her and also leaving her sick and alone to go to some job thing out of town, that I got the call saying that she wants to come home and was ending things with him. A week later, she did end it with him...and a few short weeks later, after some counseling, a few dates, and me allowing her to get thru the worst of withdrawal, we moved her home. I know this has been long Mimi. But I want you to understand. There is only one way through this now. You spelled it out to him. Dont lie to him. Dont tell him NC with OW or else...and then back down. Keep your word. I agree with you though. I think you are probably days away from a resolution (he is thinking about that anniversary also!). Hang tough...stay the course. Stay in Plan B. Stay dark. No calls, presents, slowers, emails...nothing! This is what has gotten him to this point. Dont blow it now. In His arms.
BW (me) 40 WH, serial cheater, 41 Four children: DS1 8 DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me) DS3 6 DD 2 D-day Jan 4 2017 Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017 Plan D Aug 28 2017 Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017 "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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And this one.... The following is repost of an old old post....
with the following disclaimer...
be still does NOT and never has meant dont work on plan a plan b and or plan divorce if that is where you are or should be...
I am a huge advocate of having a plan
be still has not ever now nor never mean stay in any type of abuse....
I for one have only ever consistantly advocated getting out of any and all types of abuse with a well thought out safety plan..both "here" and in the real world....
this whole plan was born from reading post after post after after post from BS
asking
why did he/she say this or that
why did he/she do this or that
why why why
blah blah blah...
who knows why....
but I can assure you that
agonizing
ruminating
spinning it around and around in your head
thinking and examining every tiny thing they do....
driving yourself crazy staying only focused on the WS
not eating
not sleeping
imagining what the WS is doing every second of the day
is daunting and wastes energy needed for the BS to stay focused and on the path to healing....
It also about the fact that so many expect the WS to be instantly sorry on D-day
instantly insightful to their actions of destuctions
instantly disgusted by the thought of seeing or talking to the OP...
all instantly vanishing from the WS...all the wall of rationalization needed to have an affair..gone..
doesn't usually quite work that way.....even though the BS is shocked by that
that's what be still post has always been about....
so if you want to bump the be still post...
bump this one....
the original post stands on its own in my opinion..
from the moment it was written it clearly states that it is not about saving every marriage...
says nothing about staying in any type of abuse...
and is not ever about not working on a plan..
it is about the calming the thoughts swirling in your brain that distract your focus and hurt you....
thank you for your attention to this ridiculousness
Some of the most painful posts to read here ....is the confusion and turmoil of betrayed spouses....
those post D-day days weeks and sadly months in which so many things are left unanswered, unaddressed and emtpy...
be still.....
In our turmoil and chaos and the gnawing need to fix and address.....bs bring into their hearts more pain and crisis....
be still...
There was once a saying I read somewhere that went something like to really ever understand someone else we must crawl inside of them and feel the gentle beat of their heart....
easier probably for a BS to move a mountain than to grasp and work from that realm....
but be still...
each moment of stillness you can buy grab or gobble is a moment in which you are free from the pain and free from the fear..
fear of doing the wrong thing
fear of saying the wrong thing...
the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....
the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....
they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...
be still
it takes time.....
too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...
it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night
working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...
be still
for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....
they did this...and they must undo this...
will they?
the truth is we don't know..
but to ever be a whole person again they darn well better...otherwise they carry their chaos on and on..and in the end no BS needs to burdon that.....
WS, though hard to see when they have used you as a weapon are very very damaged inside.....
they can not face that damage...and since that damage is YOU the BS...they often can not face you..
so they continue to waffle and wallow in the path that brought them to this place...
the way of rationalizing and justifying downright no two ways about it dispicable behavior acts....
force them to the face and process at once..
they will withdrawal
they will deny
they will retaliate
or even worse they will self destruct themselves....
be still....
don't force responses and actions and answers...be still and know that their non-responses , non actions and non answers ARE their answers....and you can hold them accountable to that
be still
and then make your moves....
ARK^^
BW (me) 40 WH, serial cheater, 41 Four children: DS1 8 DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me) DS3 6 DD 2 D-day Jan 4 2017 Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017 Plan D Aug 28 2017 Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017 "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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