There will be NO FURTHER nasty snide attacks on this thread!!

PLEASE offer support and MarriageBuilders concepts & Principles to HELP this member or REFRAIN from posting!!

dont know if SW is in this boat, but for us you can't get to a psych without a referral from the ped. not unless you want to pay for it out of pocket.

*edit

*edit

I realize this post paints myself as crazy, and I was but I�ve come a long way with counseling, so I don�t mind sharing�


I was a lot like this as a kid. My son is too. I wanted attention, acceptance, and love. I did not feel loved. I thought if I was as good as others I, too, would be accepted, loved. My inadequacies were the reason my life wasn�t filled with joy. If only I could

Some of it was misunderstanding. For example, my mom had baby books for my sister and brother. But nothing of me, and only a handful of actual photos before I was 2 (when my sister was born). I would get angry and resentful every time I saw those books. Why didn�t she love me too? It wasn�t until I was grown that I learned my mom had no place to live when I was born. On the streets and other issues, she didn�t have a real home until she met and married their dad. I never told my mom how unloved that made me feel. So she never had an opportunity to correct it. This is why when he says �you don�t love me� I ask why he feels that way and try to point out reality.

Some of it was honestly her failure to parent. For example, my mother partied with my classmates. The same girls who teased and bullied me in school were drinking with my momma. How cool is that. Another example, I was allowed to do whatever, go whatever as long as it didn�t inconvenience her (I had to find my own way).

Some of it was unreasonable. For example, one day my mom had a dinner party. I was feeling especially neglected and irritated that she sent us to our room and wouldn�t even let us have some of the party food. I remember thinking if she loved me, she would check on me, so I�ll hide between the bed and the wall and see how long it takes her to find me. Well she never did (honestly, I was old enough, 9th grade!! she didn�t need to!). And as morning broke I got more anad more angry that my mom hadn�t checked on me. I made up my mind to stay in that room til she did. Bad decision cuz it was uncomfortable. She finally found me later that evening and asked what I was doing there. I was too ashamed to tell her the reason so I told her I was cold and wanted to sleep next to the radiator. Her response? Well, you�re pretty dumb because the radiator is off. And she left.

And I had to learn, as an adult, in college that some of my desire for attention was unreasonable. You are starved for and crave attention and affection, so you begin to want more than is normal. Normal friends don�t hang on your every word 24-7.

And it�s a self-fulfilling prophesy. You feel like your parents don�t love you, and then everything they do feeds into that. As an adult, I can step back and see that our dad loved us, but that my mom has mental issues and really isn�t capable of loving anyone but herself. The sad thing is, we thought our dad hated us. Couple years ago my mom told us how she hated the nice things he did for us, like taking us to the park and getting us ice cream. She didn�t want to waste time on that junk, she had a life to live but he always drug her along. All those years, we thought SHE was the one doing nice things for us because dad was the evil bad man who hated us.

I just want other parents to see that our kids don�t see things the way we do. And they really WANT to tell you. I really WANTED to tell my mom I felt like she didn�t love me. But I was too ashamed and sad when the moment came. I think she could have pulled it out of me, and that�s why I�m really trying to work with my son to tell me what he feels.

My mom may not have done anything about it, but I sense you are the kind of mom who WOULD try to fix it for your son.

I�ll have to ask him. He has not asked me for a dog, and has been extremely afraid of dogs (not sure why). My friend has two dogs so we�ve been working on it. My son DOES have the problem of asking over and over. I�m working with him on that. It�s like he forgets I already said no.


You're not. Read my other post about my mom. And even SHE wasn't the "worst mother ever" ;-)

Then read �The boy who was raised as a dog.� You�ll cry for those poor kids, but feel much better about your parenting.

That is part of what I was having to call and find out about....of course every phone call takes so long...but got it all worked out and an appt set.

Ty. I have an only child and I worked to not over-react about every little thing.

Your post doesn't paint you as crazy at all. And in fact, I often see my childhood self in my son. I needed LOTS of attention...and I did things like sit outside in the freezing cold to get attention. My mom was very much all about us....she didn't date at all and she didn't go out with the girls at all or leave us ever. However, at the same time she was very matter of fact about some things....like shrugging if I was sitting out in the cold...(she figures if a kid gets cold enough they will come in). She wasn't a coddler....but she was very PRESENT. She would let me crawl in bed with her when I was a teen and talk for HOURS even though she would be exhausted. I would pat her cheek...'mom! mom! Are you awake!'

So what I am saying is that *I* had all kinds of attention from my mom and our big circle of friends. We had a full life....and yet I still did attention seeking things....so part of me just thinks it is the kid! Not the circumstances. Because this kid of mine, has A LOT of my time and attention. We were talking earlier, as he sat in my lap...about what a trip to the counselor might entail....and he was telling me how 'sad' he is. I asked him about what (and see here is a time where he was FINE, more than fine, before I started talking to him....but suddenly is sad. But anyway, I asked him what he was sad about...he said he just 'wants me.' I tried to get out of him what that means.

He made some comment about me loving dh more than him. I said, 'hmmmm.....well can you tell me what I am doing to make you think that? Because I know how I feel and I certainly don't love dh more than you, but if you are feeling that way I'd like to know what I am doing that makes you feel that way.'

He hummed and hawed.....could not come up with anything...so I said, 'are you AFRAID I will stop loving you?' He said yes to that....but I don't know. He is a very very bright kid and I just can't help but feel that he is saying catch phrases that he's heard at times.

When I told him about the counselor he acted like it terrified him.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I just saw this....His counselor says a combination of 2 things: low self esteem and over hearing his Dad and I disagreeing. I also think it is partially due ot his Dad's inconsistent availability to him. It only took a few sessions (less than 5) for me to see dramatic improvement.

SW, I find it interesting that he is afraid you will stop loving him. I am not a counselor, but could be that in his mind, his Dad stopped loving you and you stopped loving his Dad. You may want to mention that to the counelor. Also, there is a book called, I'll Like You Forever. It's a picture book, but the repeated message is "I'll like you forever, I'll love you for alwayss, as long as I'm living, my baby you'll be." DS and I read this often and I repeat the quote to him frequently. Also, I tell him regulary - several times a day, that I love him and I will love him forever.

My son is 9. He didn't like the idea of going to a counselor, either, but now he loves it. He says his counselor is "cool." If it would help your DS, my son has said he is willing to talk to him about counseling and how much he likes it and what he does there. If that is something you would want to do, let me know and I will post my e-mail address and get you my phone number that way.

I have that book.

And I will ask him if he would like to talk to your son.

FTR, I am VERY affectionate and tell him I love him often.

SW, I am stunned by your reaction to this. The kid poured his heart out to you and you Did Not Believe Him.

Now do you see why he is so desperate for your attention? Because no matter what he does or says, You Do Not Believe Him.

In all seriousness, why do you doubt what your son is telling you?


Of course it does. Counselor = Punishment for saying stuff that mom does not believe. Did you and your XH also go to a counselor, and if you did does your son know about it?

Please, please, please stop trying to find explanations so that you can ignore and dismiss this child's words and actions. He is straight up telling you how he feels and is *stabbing himself* when he cannot get you to believe him any other way.

How desperate will he have to get? He is trying his best but you are dismissing his words and actions. He is suffering and he needs your help. Most of all, he needs you to Believe Him and I do not understand why you don't.

What did I not believe? I honestly would like you to tell me what it is I didn't believe?


He did not stab himself because I didn't believe something he said! Where did you get that idea? He stabbed himself because he was angry at his friend over something and/or because I asked him to give me a minute to get off the phone.

Regardless what is it you think I should do? He tells me he thinks I don't love him as much as dh and I tell him 'sorry you are feeling that way. What am I doing to make you think that?' (for which I get no answer) Then I continue to reassure him that I DO still love him more than anyone or anything in the world and that nothing will change that. It is a conversation that has been repeated half a dozen times in the last few months.

The counselor had nothing to do with anything he told me. It wasn't presented as punishment in any way. I told him it was to find a way to help him deal with his frustration and anger and stop hurting himself. He was on my lap with me hugging him and telling him how much I love him when we had this conversation.

And no XH and I did not go to a counselor. I went once alone because XH would not go with me...it was the evening before D-Day. Ds didn't not know about it. Still doesn't.


Ok, needs my help HOW? WHAT am I suppose to do that I am not doing?

Son: I am afraid Mom will stop loving me.

Mom: Oh, son, you are a very very bright kid and I just can't help but feel that you are saying catch phrases that you've heard at times.

It doesn't matter whether you said this out loud or not. Believe me, he heard you and he got the message.

If you had to take 100% seriously the idea that "my son feels that I do not love him" - how would you handle it? And remember that he needs deeds, not words.


As I said before: Believe Him. Do not look for any excuses or explanations to sidestep the very disturbing words and actions of this child. Straight-up believe his actual words. *Then* ask yourself what you should be doing.

No normal healthy child will deliberately injure himself. If you dismiss this with "He's just looking for attention", you may well regret it the rest of your life.

Of course he's looking for attention. His world is being destroyed around him and he does not know how to handle it. Of course he's looking for attention.

Ok, I don't know how you think you can know this. I am NOT giving off the vibe I don't believe him and as far as I know his brightness doesn't extend to mind reading.


Why do you think I am spilling my guts to strangers on a message board? I DO want to be the best mother I can, but I don't KNOW the deeds I should be doing to convince him I do love him.


FTR, this is not new behavior. He has smacked himself in the face and on the head for several years...not often, but enough. It is almost ALWAYS because he thinks he isn't good enough at something.

I have the counselor appt. set. I am doing all I know to do. I get that you think it is not enough. I would love to hear the deeds you think would convince ds I love him.

How did he react when you said you were going to get remarried?

Most important: Do not ever, ever, ever tell your son that his feelings are "wrong" or that he is "wrong" to feel the way he does.

Son: I feel that my mom doesn't love me.
You: Oh, son, you are so wrong to think that, of course Mommy loves you, etc etc etc

This is what I was trying to get across in the posts above. He told you he felt you don't love him and you told US that he was just repeating catch phrases he'd heard elsewhere.

That's what you said to us. What did you say to him?

His feelings are not "wrong". He DOES feel this way. Those feelings are true and correct, TO HIM. He needs to have you fully acknowledge how he feels and not ever once tell him he's "wrong" to feel that way.

When he says something like, "I don't think you love me," you say in return: "I'm so sorry. What can we do together so you don't have to feel that way anymore?"

From your descriptions of him, I would bet that this child has been told for a very long time that his feelings, thoughts and perceptions are "wrong".

"He is just repeating catch phrases" translates into, "He Doesn't Really Feel That Way." Which is the same as saying, "His feelings and perceptions are wrong."

When someone tries to tell you the truth about their feelings but the response is "You Don't Really Feel That Way" - I cannot begin to tell you how maddening and frustrating that is.

But your son IS trying to tell you. Do you really not understand why he jabbed a pencil into his neck, or why he slaps and punches himself and lives in a huge state of fear and frustration?

I am trying to tell you that his feelings and perceptions are not "wrong". They may be uncomfortable and disturbing for you to hear, but they are not "wrong". They are HIS FEELINGS and he is trying to tell you the TRUTH about HOW HE FEELS.

If you ever find yourself trying to correct him when he tells you HOW HE FEELS about something - you must catch yourself and STOP.

I'm sorry, but you are not really in a position to say this. This is about the vibe your son is perceiving that you give off. I think what some people are saying is that even on a disembodied message board, we are getting that vibe too.

Think on that a bit.

Ok. I don't tell him he is wrong to feel the way he feels. I was only musing to you all....his actions day to day don't seem to match the things he says sometimes. He is fine until things aren't going his way.




Well if this is true then it would be me because I am the only parent who has ever parented him.

I will pay attention to myself and see if I am telling him he doesn't feel the way he says he feels.

Let me ask you all this though. Do you not think there are kids who just say dramatic things? That they really DON'T mean what they say? That they are just trying out phrases. I remember I was that way. I was one of those dramatic kids who made sweeping statements and gestures that really didn't apply to my feelings or the reality of what I was living. I think I just wanted attention.