Andym where in the country are you located just out of curiosity? My 8 and 6 year old are suffering from this the most. they want mom to get better so she can come home. My 8 year old told my BIL that mom has been acting wierd lately. They want to pray for her and they want me to do it for them as well. Its hard to not break in front of them. I told her these things and i didnt sense much from her. wtf. this is not her. I guess its yet another thing i have to buck up and endure all because of her affair.

Her denial is a powerful thing.

After reading Fred's post, how did you end that call to OM? Hopefully with a big FU? I never could get my W's OM to answer the phone and had to settle for a nasty text.

What are her parents saying about these latest developments?

Lost - I'm located in the Carolinas.

Lostman, I'm worried.

On February 20, you wrote

Uh, wait. He "ended it in a harsh way" on February 20. But then they spent all night talking and ending it two days ago????

Time to wake up and smell the gaslight, my friend.

Then, I think you should make up your mind to do it the Marriage Builders way. Lostman's way isn't cutting it.

Om conversation to sum it up.
What are your intentions? He called to end it as he was just getting a divorce and did not want to be tied down. He did not want to mess up 4 boys lives and a good family.

I told him to quit leading her on. He says and i believe from viewing all records in the past that she is the one that always contacts him. he never starts it and he always tells her she needs to think of her family instead of him(confirmed by my wife)he admits that he did not stop her and from now on he would. as he wants his freedom back, not a ww woman thats all of a sudden living in his home he just kicked his wife out of.

I told him of her wacko side that he doesnt get to see since they only have good times together. and gave him a hint of what he could look forward to as i have 14 years of marriage and family to prove it.

I told him that if she runs to him her family would make her life hell which in turn would make his the same. which he has scene

I told him he needs to think of his own son and fix his own marriage.

we agreed she was acting like a teenager that was rebelling against her parents..

I asked him if he was prepared to start going to church when her life started seeming more normal and if he was going to be the spritual leader she will start demanding of him(think this one got to him)

Asked him if he was ready to have 4 extra children running and screaming and crying calling for there daddy in his little house. He said no.

He told ww that he may not even want her in a month and kick her out ant then what would she have.

It was pretty intense and the conversation was back and forth. it wasnt me talking at him as he was giving me a lot reason for doing what he did that i didnt ask for.

Sorry that I've asked this before, and if you've responded and I forgot, beg your pardon: Have you talked to this POS's wife? Are you sure that there is an in-progress divorce?

I see nothing in your post of Plan A. Or Plan B.

I'm reading Plan C (Confusion).

You're not saving your marriage lostman. You're making yourself ill, your kids miserable, and your life a mess. You don't need to do that -- your WW is doing enough all by herself.

It's time you pack her bags, put them outside the door, change the locks, hand her a Plan B letter and NEVER SEE, HEAR, READ or WRITE HER UNTIL SHE ENDS THE A AND AGREES TO YOUR TERMS TO RECOVER THE MARRIAGE.

Take it from someone who's been there -- it's time for YOU to recover even if your marriage doesn't. If for no one else, do it for your kids -- one of their parents has to show what is right.

ya im not sure he was wanting to talk to me the first time as i had the wifes phone. I figured he knew that. but i was the one that called him when he sent the text for someone to call. i actually think i caught him off guard the first time and told him to end it with her. This time i did not tell him to, he did it on his own. My ww was a wreck today, and i didnt see her but about 5 minutes. She looked beat down.

It is what it is now. shes not back home yet and if she runs back to him so be it. maybe that would be the best. I gave her time to go figure it out what she needed and while on that time she took a hit from OM. Now she can let reality set in and see what she wants. I cannot make her change her mind. she has to do it on her own from here on out. I have tried all i can to change it and all she ever does is get po'ed. She is a stubborn girl and always has been, but will never admit it.im done and the ball is in her court. if she comes back then we will see what can happen.

Ya i have talked to her several times. she is a nice gal and they have filed, she has moved out, and she wants to strangle my ww. cant blame her i want to do it to or even watch her do it.

OK, lostman, I'm beating up on you.

I'm hoping you'll begin to see the problem here:

YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BEST ADVICE HERE AND HAVE CHOSEN TO IGNORE IT.

Lostman's "plan" has been better(?) than the combined wisdom of some of the best experts available.

Now you're left with a very vague

And what would that be? Do you have a PLAN???

I want you to succeed, lostman. Really, I do.

I see what your saying, but in my opinion she is the one deystroying everything not me. Im not an educated man when it comes to this area but im getting smarter. I have done pretty much all you have stated. except give her a letter. as far as that goes i cannot legally do that unless i file for d or legal seperation. and i have to tell you if things dont improve by next week that may be where im headed. that way i can get temporary custody of the kids and give her no choice but to leave the kids.

In all reality here the affair has been out for only 2 weeks and the fog is still in her gravy brain. I think om has bitten off more than he wants to chew. it was great when no one knew, but now shes becoming a pain and he's ready to move on to better things than a ww with 4 kids. Keep in mind he could have about any girl with his looks and build and hes not going to settle for my ww and the problems that come with her.

Yeah, if you want to be bringing up someone elses kid.

Personally, I wouildn't want to go through all the stages of maturity with another woman again. But you are right about getting a new one who wants kids and someone to play house, the world is full of them.

Like Carlin says tho, "Women marry men thinking they will change, and Men marry women thinking they won't", and they are both wrong. We are not utilities or each others employees. Men will change in the direction they find profitable for themselves, and women also.

Thats the key, you allways gotta be in a win-win situation for both, know it, live it, breath it 24/7, and its not easy. Once lost, and overun with fear, it is a job to bring it back, but it is possible with two willing partners.

I understand the having children thing being important Andy, I had the "snip-snip" done after my 4 child at 33, because we allready had 3 together. My wife kept asking me to get it reversed in my forties, because she wanted another baby. I said we could get our finances straitened out, and adopt an allready existing needy child, but I didn't want to add anymore, I wanted to take good care of the ones I had.

There is something, a natural drive, or self-esteem value, with women as far as being able to have children. Somehow they feel that is thier purpose, IDK. I allways built up my wife about who she was, and how important a role she had to everyone, to ease this from her. To many SAHMs, taking care of thier children is equivelent to a mans career, and the objectivity can be lost, because of the complexity of children and thier personalities.

LostM, it is possible that is part of your wifes "escape", because she is overwhelmed, prideful and scared Sh1tless, and feels she is losing herself. That is no reason for how she is handleing it, but maybe a concern that should be looked into anyway you cut it. I am sure you would rather have a stable Mom for your children, whether you recover or not. Thats a hard fact we must face, that after we create life, we are responsible for it. That is the main reason I stayed, because I needed for my kids to see someone stable,(although I eventually broke down), do thier best to love as God loves, objectivly and sacrificially. I don't recommend what I did, and don't think it was the best for the children now, but at the time it was all I could do, and given the curcumstances, I would probably do it again. I wish I had this place a long time ago, I would probably have learned to love more effectivly, instead of emotionally, which most of us humans have backward.

In my heart I have allways wanted an MB marriage, and recognized it as soon as I read about it.

i think you have something here. This was a part of the conversation last week with her.

Wow, now that love huh? He sounds like a POS.

What Fred says though has a lot of merit, What do YOU want in a marriage? I told Andy he should write a letter and list what he expects, the MB ENQs require that we list what ENs we require to be happy. Everybody goes into marriage expecting to be happy, but few make the plans. The in-love stage draws us together, but things get overlooked, and pushed aside, until they blow up.
"People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.."

Not only do you need a plan to recover, but a plan to make it a win win for both of you.

BTW, I would not be afraid to cry in front of the kids, its real, and maybe then they will open up and feel also, and talk about it. They are probably allready internalising all this, and a caring loving father would be the best person they could talk to. If your Kids are believers, they know about the fraility of humans, that goes a long way for them to understand, but not condone, sin and the consquences of it. You know your kids though, and everything has to be handled age appropiately.

I'm sensing a lot of anger from you, and that is appropiate, don't get me wrong, but without a plan to restore love and be in love also, the most you will get back is a broken and unhappy women, who feels forced to comply, and does not see you can also be happily in love. That might be part of what she is running away from and to, a free love with all the childish possibilities. We are Gods Children, and he provides that we can be happy and content, within his structure.

Constant i feel that you have hit the nail on the head. I have an extreme rage going on inside towards her at the moment. I also feel that your statement on the most i will get back is a broken unhappy woman is correct. It is totally unfair for me to receive this amount stress from a spouse. It is what it is. I plan on pursuing counseling from the counselor she has been to once. He believes in restoring marriages and nothing else. I havent been to see him yet and so far she has had no desire to go back. He has tried to make contact with her, but she has not been here. i will pass the info on this weekend as well as encourage her/to get our buts there.

My wife started to have some real problems when the children were old enough to question authority, and she lost that "Wonderful perfect All-knowing Mom" status in thier eyes. It was a time when my W had to deal with them like adults, even when they were not mature yet, and start to live like an adult herself.

I saw it as a stage she had avoided because she was able to immerse herself in being supermom, and believing she was. She was very inteligent, or should I say she had an active mind, and I knew she had the capacity to be a therapist, or a cousellor, and she also loved helping people.

I encouraged her to pursue such a profession because she had a gift for empathy of children and adults. Also because she would have to see the reason she was even able to succeed, was because she got real and didn't drink anymore. Maybe she would learn her limitations, and seek her own peace first, as I think God wants that more than anything. God isn't into making "deals" with us where we control the outcome as we see fit, he wants our trust and total submission. Its how it works.

Somehow Wife reverted to old habits first emotionally, then the escapism of bitterness because it wasn't all how she planned. She blamed others, and became rebelious, and eventually started to drink again. Hung up in stubborness, fear, and pride, and because she knew the bible so well, and had done so much for others, she felt entitled. It is a phase of maturity she never negotiated well before, and now she was heading into denial again, stating God knew her, and using his Grace as a lisense to live in His permissive will.

She no longer felt important, or special, or valuable, regaurdless of how much others loved her and built her up. Her ENs were extreme need for attention from others, to the point of allways being right, which many will recognize as insecurity. Granted she had all the reasons to be insecure because of her experiences as a child, but she refused to accept that how she dealt with it, needed to change.

That self-righteous attitude, led her down the path to destruction.

Your Wife LostM, might be battling some of those demons also inside. She does not drink, so the pain she is encountering because of her decisions has a chance to help her go to God and his angels in real life, so there is hope. She still has a chance to change her thinking, and therefore her mind, where all this and the battle is raging for her soul.

I hope you can and do see a different woman someday, and she sees she is destroying herself, and nobody wants that. I hope you both can work towards love for each other, and overcome what is attacking you both.

A marriage is Gods model on this earth of His kingdom, and all the temptations that try to ruin that and make us miserable are evil in nature. Its no surprise that without God it will be tough to have a happy and long life, and marriage is his domain. I don't know how I could have ever survived, or had any kind of marraige, without God in charge of it.

Now you are dealing with the part of the vows, "In sickness and in health" and in the sickness of her mind, it is challanging you. Trust God and his plan LostM, and agree with Him first.

Yes sir the OM and the WW were talking all night:

Do you like that?
Yes.
Do you like this?
Yes, yes.
Do you want more?
YES, YES, YES.
Do you want me to stop?
HELL NO.
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG, catch breath, omg.

Being this talking went all night long this conversation was repeated all night long.

constant you have nailed my wife to the T. Do you know her?

ConstantProcess and Lost - Is it the pride and fear that drives these types of women? I get the sense that my WW is 'guided' by these emotions. The fear of getting older, the fear of being less attractive, the fear of having to admit a mistake (driven by pride), etc.

Wow, I posted last night asking what were the parameters under which WW might come home, went to bed, and woke up to 29 new posts on your thread.

I have an extreme rage going on inside towards her at the moment. I also feel that your statement on the most i will get back is a broken unhappy woman is correct. It is totally unfair for me to receive this amount stress from a spouse.

All of this is understandable, given your approach to your problem.

It is what it is.

Maybe so, but your NEED right now is to see to it that "It is not tomorrow what it is today."

Dude, you're on a course where the only thing that is going to change is YOUR mental well-being. There is no "maybe", "almost", "perhaps" in your universe right now. It is time for Plan B, fully implemented and adhered to.

• There is nothing about her necessary changes that she's unaware of.
• There is no indication that she's moving on her own toward reconciliation.
• There are laws that prevent you from forcing her to do as you want.
• Her treatment of you is insulting, corrosive, and destined to cause you possibly irrepairable damage.

Disengage. Walk away. Force her to stay away. Have no contact. Sometimes "recovery" is attained through dissolution.

PLAN B.