I hate to say this, but I support your mom's beliefs. However, please relay this side of the arguement to your precious mother, who IS trying to again protect you and is also beyond disgusted by the actions of your xww during the divorce.

Families never forget the lies of the waywards. Nope. But when things go so far as a divorce, it drives a permanent wedge between the family of the BS and the WS imho.

My grandmother and grandfather never NEVER spoke to my xh since my divorce and went to their graves with a plan F-U to him. He once showed up at their house, wanting to "drop by" with my ds, when he was back in my hometown "just visiting" after our divorce. (hint: one of the ow lives in my hometown). And yes, it was during my sons' scheduled time with the x.

My grandparents REFUSED to open the door to my xh. Refused. They told him to his face what they thought of him, and that he could let their great grandson off at their front door, and that they would visit with him, but that he was not ever setting foot in their house, and that they would not be having ANY RELATIONSHIP AT ALL with my xh. And yes, it was after horrendous lies were said about me (all false) and after he financially destroyed me.

But in a situation like this one? I asked my grandparents later about this, and they said this response..."If we ever HAVE TO BE in the same vicinity as your xh, then we will be in a totally separate area from him, will not speak to, look at, or acknowledge in ANY WAY AT ALL he is alive. We won't. We'd be there for our great-grandson, but not interact at all with your x. After what he did, he's lucky your grandfather didn't punch him in the face (and this was at the time, a man of 80 years).

So show this to your mom, as this is how my family treated my xh. They literally, other than the day at the door, NEVER SPOKE TO HIM again. Including my sister and my bil and my bils' parents (also like family to me).

You should NEVER be ashamed or worry about the reaction of your mom to your xww. THE XWW SHOULD AND ALWAYS BE ASHAMED of her actions, her living in sin with the lover (ok, so he's not an OM, but if they live together it's pretty crappy being she's a single mom and should try to be SOME damn kind of role model).

I think it's perfectly FINE for your mom to attend and NOT HAVE AN OUNCE of contact with the xww. Your xww honestly doesn't deserve to have that. Personally, I have made as few as possible concessions EVER for my xh.

He chose that path of destruction, I didn't. I didn't chose that path for my child either, so that is why the line is drawn clear and deep. Trying to make things "comfortable" for the waywards is something I'm not ever going to do.

Trying to make it "okay" for the waywars isn't right either. You can be nice to her, but as for me, I have NO RELATIONSHIP to my xh's family at all. I don't call them. I don't speak to them. We don't see them at all. My son (because of a certain instance wtih them)also has NC with them, but I realize this is almost impossible with other situations.

All you can control is yourself, and your reactions. Personally, I never gave my x the satisfaction of seeing me for one second being "okay" with anything he did or in being his "friend". Your xww is NOT YOUR FRIEND and is not deserving of being even placed in the acquaintence category either.

Your mom is simply being your mom. As a mom, myself, I know if anybody drug MY SON through the mud in front of God and a court of law, I would myself, have to be jailed in that court for what I'd do to the person who would lie and try to destroy my childs' good reputation.

Your mom cannot forget seeing and hearing what she saw and that's good. She's able to clearly see right vs. wrong and that is totally honest and refreshing today.

What your dear mom needs, is REASSURANCE from you that 1)she doesn't have to at all have contact with your X or her family at the church and 2)she should be seated in an area where she shouldn't have to see them either and 3)the x and her family should know NOT TO APPROACH YOUR MOM as the x should be TOLD that her very presence is harmful to your sweet mother. She should stay put in her place (your xww) and know not to approach your mother, who has loved you all her life and stood up for you.

I think your mom will come when she is made to feel safe and know she doesn't have to re-live the trauma and lies of the day she saw her once daughter in law, destroy her sons' family. That I am sure, was more heart-wrenching to your mom, than it might have even been to you.

In closing, fwiw, your xww needs to step back and the needs of YOUR MOM come far ahead of the wayward.

I'd give your mom ever reassurance why she SHOULD come and not worry about having to see, speak, or interact in any way with your xww.

Let the xww have to figure out for herself why things have worked out for her life in such a way.

I think it's PERFECTLY FINE to inact a long term, possibly life time Plan F-U to an ex spouse who is a wayward . Personally, I love Plan F-U for my x. Nobody could be a more deserving candidate for that honor!

You can always be polite, but ignoring somebody isn't being impolite either. Your mom has NO RELATION to your xww whatsoever, so basically your xww has no reason to interact with your mom or speak to her or try to put herself in front of your precious mother.

Good point Peachy!

Thanks EE!

His MOM should not suffer or not see her precious grandaughter have her first Communion simply because her ATHEIST EX WAYWARD WIFE MOMMY LIVING WITH THE BOYFRIEND, wants to say hello to her.

MOM COMES FIRST IN THIS ONE!

There would be no interaction between my ex and her family and my family. She�d sit somewhere in the church. I�d sit with my family. I�m not asking my mom to be friendly with WXW in any way.

My WXW on Friday kept saying that she really wanted to get along with me but that I kept making it difficult. She really is completely oblivious. She perceives any level of civility as being friendly, when it�s really just something I do for my kids. Her complaints about me are kind of laughable. Some are valid (I shouldn�t have let the kids watch Kung Pao, a PG13 movie). But the others are flat out overblown or silly.

Trust me, as soon as my kids are old enough I will have ZERO contact with my ex if I can avoid it. I really have no interest in maintaining any kind of contact whatsoever.

But the young age of my kids is obviously a factor that makes that reality difficult. So for now I see it as a business arrangement with a supplier I don�t like but have to deal with.

My dream is that once they�re grown I can move away to live in the mountains by a lake someday and never have to speak with her again in any way.

I also don�t see how I can tell my DD that she can�t invite her mom to an event she feels is important. That may make me feel good, but whatever I may feel for my WXW, my DD and sons still love her. She�s their mom. I have to respect that.

They�ll figure things out for themselves as they get older.

Well, if your xww wants to know the deal, TELL her the real reason why it's not ever cool.

And I'd strike while the iron is hot about the PG 13 kind of thing. Lemme tell you WHY she rakes you over the hot coals for showing the kids a PERFECTLY fine kid movie.

1)she may be living with her boyfriend which is immoral and kids (most divorce wordings say) that there should be "no member of the opposite sex cohabitating under the same roof as the custodial parent when custody with child(ren) is going on" or something like that.

2)she knows she did horrible things, and wants to DEFLECT her blame yet again, onto you, dragging you over hot coals to make you come down to HER LEVEL. Wrongo. That should not ever happen. My x tried this once and I then asked my child what he watched over at the x's house. Turns out my ds watched several tv shows when at his dads' house that were for mature viewing. It might not have been a movie, but he saw things that weren't rated "G". She's just shifting blame again because she's a guilty wayward who refuses to accept the fact her consicence is wrestling with itself.

3)She uses "civility" as a sword, trying to make you again look bad, when it was that woman who MADE HERSELF look so bad, and it's just another method of deflection, so that she can feel ok about everything. Goes back to the whole life goal of an ex spouse who is wayard, which would be ACCEPTANCE by the BS.

And fwiw, you DO NOT HAVE TO RESPECT her as their mom. My x to me is a sperm donor plain and simple. I owe him NO respect, nothing more than I'd give to an anonymous sperm donor.

No, let me change that. I would have some actual respect for a sperm donor because he would have helped give me the gift of my child's life but NOT attempted to DESTROY MY FAMILY OR MY LIFE in the process. Thus, your xww should deserve nothing.

I'd just be decent and walk away from her. You should give all the assurances to your mom about the NC with the XWW. And XWW should KNOW and be told, exactly WHY you're not going to have her speak or look at or interact in any way with your precious mom. And if your xww tries to put pressure on you for showing a kids' movie to your kids????

MAYBE just maybe xww needs a refresher course on WHAT she did, WHY she's immoral, and why she should be lucky you don't take her lousy azz back to court, shacking up with yet another lover and all.

That's how I'd treat her and how my x got treated exactly. He thanks God that I am not dragging him into court again any time soon and I remind him that i can do that at any time and that his RECORD is PUBLIC and I'll bring up his past at any given time.

Again, I'll give cliff notes version of what I'd do to your xww (Can I call her "Ms. PG-13? My xh's xw and former ow was given by me the nickname of "Ms. Family Values)....

1)Tell XWW how it is and why it has to be this way and it is BECAUSE OF HER actions. NOT yours.

2) Tell XWW she is not to speak or attempt to contact in any way your precious mom at any event for life.

3)Tell XWW (after you find out what your kids see over there, and I guarantee they are seeing regular tv that has a mature rating over there unless it's sesame street 24/7), that the Panda movie is ok, and that if the kids want to be EXPOSED TO SOMETHING BAD, you could read them THE TRANSCRIPT OF YOUR DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS and let them know all that mommy has done, and that SHE EXPOSED them to a million times worse BAD things than a cartoon panda kid flick did.

i think you're mistaking Kung Pao for Kung Fu Panda. The latter is clearly a kid's movie. The former is a silly comedy with funny noises that the kids found howlingly funny, but it does have its share of questionable lines.

It was a mistake to show my ADHD son that movie because he repeats things he hears and he got in trouble for saying the word a$$ in school. When they asked him where he heard it, it was from that movie.

I completely agree with what you're saying, but I'm not sure what you're telling me in terms of my DD's First Communion.

I'm not the primary custodial parent. I have to interact with my ex regularly. It would be very different if I had full custody, but I don't. So I have to play the game of being nice or possibly pay the price in court again someday for "not being able to coparent".

I could have a firmer stance if I had your situation, but I don't have that luxury and the truth is that I will seek a 50/50 arrangement down the road.

So for now I'm civil, but indifferent.

I will never in any way voluntarily have my ex around. DD wants her there. I can't deny my daughter that wish.

Telling my ex to pound sand won't work either.

The truth is that she could use this in court against me someday if I become hostile towards her attending an event that my daughter has made it clear she would like my WXW to be at.

So my circumstances aren't the same as yours. If I had full custody, I could have the freedom to tell her to shove it.

You're right about my mom and her feelings. The more I think about them the more I can understand it as a father.

So please don't think I'm defending my WXW in any way. I'm not. But my reality is different than yours.

What Peachy said. All of it.

Sure, XWW can attend the kids' events if they want her there. But she has got to understand that she is owed NOTHING by you or any member of your family. Just because you tolerate her presence at the kids' request does NOT mean you are or ever will be friends.

XWW seems to think that if she shows up at stuff, that means all is forgiven and everybody's going to be friends. She needs to be set straight about that *immediamente*.

XWW can attend these events but there is a line (a boundary) around the family members that she is never, ever to cross. She does not speak to or interact with any family member except the kids, and possibly you.

Just lay down the boundary, have a plan on how to enforce it (how will you enforce it if XWW does show up but approaches your mother?) and go from there.

That's not true at all. You don't have to be your xww's friend to "coparent".

Originally, we had joint custody and I had to do the whole "coparent" thing with him. And I was a GREAT co-parent. Co-parent means there are two parents unmarried to each other or divorced, and that both parent respects the visitation schedule and doesn't bad mouth the other parent. What you say AWAY from the kids is another thing.

But I was not friends with my x during that time, and I coparented with him WITHOUT being nicey nicey. I was civil but also indifferent, and never re-affirmed anything he did.

And as far as the movie Kung Pao vs. Panda, it doesn't matter. In fact, I bet you you're precious son can remember LOTS of shows he's seen over at your x's house. And that some of them are definitely far worse than PG 13.

Just ask him. he'll remember. TV shows on regular tv have ratings too. My x once got mad at me and accused me (yea, get this one) for taking my son to see the third Harry Potter movie.

the man who lived with his girlfriend who was pregnant when we were at the end of our marriage, who was rampantly adulterous, accused me of taking my son to a "mature" movie about witchcraft. it was PG 13 but you'd have thought it was XXX based on how he reacted.

Again, it was about what he wanted to do...deflect and make himself feel better about having been an adulterous unrepentant pig, than just coparent in peace. Ask your child.

You aren't going to be hostile to your x, just say gently to her that your M was hurt after having witnessed the divorce proceedings, and because YOU ARE such a WONDERFUL and loving coparent and son, you wish things to go smoothly, so could she please avoid your mom?

You can have the same things. Just document what your X does like crazy and stand up to her gently. Never be afraid of saying the truth. You can tell her she's batsh*t crazy, evil and immoral and say it nicely.

example:

XWW, I appreciate the fact you are trying to make sure our children are watching television shows which are age appropriate for our children, but our ds told me that at YOUR AND BOYFRIENDS' house, he watched blankey blank blank, which is a television show on regular tv, but is rated mature, I want you to take it as seriously as I do. I had no idea that show was rated PG 13, but I am SURE you didn't mean for your child at YOUR and BOYFRIENDS' house to watch a show with a MATURE rating.

and how I'd deal with your XWW about mom without calling her a ho and calling her out right then and there:

Xww, I think it is nice you are wanting to go to our child's first Communion service. It is good of you and your boyfriend to want to come, despite your different belief system. However, I know you have different beliefs, but you need to respect my belief system and that of my mother too. Also, if you could, please understand my mother was deeply hurt by the proceedings and the day of our divorce. It was hurtful to her, and much more than she should have had to hear, so could you please be kind and exercise boundaries around her? It is HARMFUL and hurtful to my mom to interact with you after what you did. She doesn't have to coparent with you, I do, and she just wants to be there with her faith, without any drama, to see her precious granddaughter have Communion.

That is coparenting with decency and won't get you drug into court either. You can't walk on eggshells forever, but there is a way of dealing with the xww without fear of further court.

My xh had tons of more $ than I. He used to threaten me all the time that he'd go for full custody if I even said one word to him he didn't like. And guess what? I said with honor and decency everything I needed to say without swearing and was always calm. He never could say or document that I was a bad "co parent".

And he, by his own lack of virtues, allowed himself to be in a position that allowed me, by courtesy OF virtues and decency, to go after him like a rabid dog in court four years after our divorce and get full custody from that man.

All wrongs can be righted in time. never fear about that. A WS who never repents goes down a path of further destruction. You will have sole custody one day, I promise you.

But in the meanwhile, don't be afraid to say what you think. Just be decent, and avoid swear words, and always in your verbage, toss the "good parent" stuff right back at her, and defend your position and place her nicely and eloquently, always onto her offensive.

Like your x, mine would gently accuse, remind me of his desire to have full custody and his ability to bury me in legal costs. I would respond gently with truth and facts, never cover up his guilt or what he did, and come back at him with the truth and my documentation of such truth so that he could never follow through.

It is/was a dance. But luckily he slipped up so bad, I caught it (good documentation) and he cannot recover from it now.

Just keep calm, (document everything!) and carry on! And stand up for mom and make mom know she won't have to deal with the "Kung Pao Chicken" (your x). I like that nickname for your x!

Btw, it cost me less than 1,000$ to get full custody of my son. Two short court appearances. I had oodles of documentation which made things easy for my attny. My x had basically buried himself in time, and I simply did the "ju jitsu" thing and used his own actions against him.

Might I suggest you beginning the same path? it took five years, but it was worth every second!

Wanna know how I found out what my son watched at my x's house?

One night we were out eating pizza and my ds looked at me and said in a familiar British accent after I dribbled some tomato sauce onto my nice outfit... (we're NOT from England) "Oh mommy....DOOOOO behave!"

i realized right then and there my son had watched SOMEWHERE Austin Powers. I asked my son right then sweetly, "honey, where did you learn that silly Austin Powers accent?"

he said to me..."Mommy, I watched Austin Powers at daddy's house. It was on the downstairs tv when I came downstairs.."

I asked where his daddy was when he watched it. My son said, "I dunno. He might have been outside at the pool with Ms. Family Values, but he wasn't around."

Simple as that. I documented it that second, wrote it down in the bathroom on a piece of paper, and when I got home, I added it as another document and put it in the virtual folder called "Darth" in my computer.

Over five years, that "Darth" file got reaaaally big. After his latest escapade, with yet another ow and I found out he'd brought her over to HIS HOUSE, I went for his jugular and he was down for the count in court!

So now the new situation:

Summer is coming up and I get the kids full time. The court says I'm responsible for getting childcare in the summer months. They're with me during the weekdays and we alternate weekends.

My ex is given 2 weeks of vacation time in the summer. Usually, this means she sticks around one week locally and goes somewhere the other week.

My wife and I have been looking at different camps with different hours and considered signing them up for half day camps and my wife would pick them up, bring them home, and then take them to the local pool for the rest of the day. (Wife is a teacher and off in the summer).

I've been trying to coordinate the summer camps with the WXW, but I need to know her choice for the other vacation week she has. I told her that I'm under no obligation to pay for camps while she has them on her vacation week. She typically simply works and then picks them up afterwards on her "vacation."

I can't assume she's going to stick around and it finally hit me that it's dumb for me to pay for a week where they're with her on "vacation."

So this has led to 20 rounds of arguing. She first told me that my wife had to pick the kids up on her vacation week and watch them until she got off work. I clarified very quickly that my wife doesn't answer to her and doesn't have to do anything anymore than her boyfriend answers to me.

She then goes on a rant about how I'm unreasonable and that her other vacation week is simply to have the kids spend time with her.

I don't disagree, but the point is that I'm under no obligation to pay for care during that time since I can't presume that she's going to stick around and it's only logical that vacation time means actual vacation to spend time with the kids, not to go to work like normal.

The fact is that she can do what she wishes on her other week. My point is that I don't have to pay for care in that time.

So this led to an epic 20 round exchange of emails where I try to explain to her that her demand is as logical as if I were to take my kids on vacation somewhere, choose to sign them up for a camp, and then expect her to pay her percentage of my care expenses for the summer.

So we'll see where this goes.

The entitlement just never seems to end.

Okay, you had me really confused at first, but I think I've got it.

During the summer break from school you have the kids full-time during the week, except that your XW gets them for two weeks. During her two weeks of visitation over the summer, she usually takes one week off work and takes the kids somewhere. The other visitation week, she just works her regular schedule. Is all that correct?

So, during her visitation week where she works her regular schedule, your goofy XW thinks that YOU should pay for childcare and that your wife should provide extended care and transportation for the kids until XW gets off work for the day? Umm, that's crazy.

HTLD, you need to nip this in the bud. Stop responding to her emails. Tell her that you can't discuss the matter any further until she tells you which weeks she wants the kids. Then make your own plans without trying to get input from her.

You don't have to get her approval for the kids' summer schedule while they're with you, and she needs to come up with her own plans for while they're her responsibility. When she demands that your DW provide transportation/aftercare/whatever, just tell her that your DW isn't available. No explanation, just a solid NO.

I made a pretty forceful case to check her attitudes and demands over my wife at the door.

I made it clear that my wife doesn't "have to" do anything she requests, as she worded it in her email, anymore than i can say that her boyfriend has to do something.

So that was all put in check.

If she took the approach along the lines of, "I'd like to keep the kids in camp that other vacation week i have them, but I can't afford to pay for all of it. Would you be willing to pay for camp for the week? I'll cover my part of it."

If she approached me that way, then I'd consider it. It's the attitude and demand that I must provide care on her vacation week that has be irked.

But yes, you got everything straight in what she's demanding.

Yanno, I often wonder what part of DIVORCED an XWS doesn't understand - ?