Just a refresher on how a DJ works:


"The path to hell is paved with good intentions."

A DJ is yet another one of those stones.

Very, very true.

markos:

Actually, I said that the LB are the result of the WOMAN's actions FIRST. THere are several BOOKS out there that explain how the women is basically responsible for the man's emotions. My wife finds my anger, quietness, depression as a LB. She does not seem to understand that my going into my mancave is the reult of HER actions. Of COURSE I will be depressed if my wife has no sex drive. OF COURSE I will withdraw from her if she has no SEX drive. Of course I will lack confidence, becasue that is what happens when you get rejected so many times. Man needs lots of sex, gets little from his wife, and now he is "needy", DUH!!! Tell me how the man is supposed to fix these issues on his own!

Cemar, when on earth are you going to stop blaming your wife for everything?

This is so exasperating.

You approach your wife with anger, silence, and depression, and then you wonder, constantly, why she doesn't enthusiastically jump your bones every time you walk through the door.

What woman would be turned on by a man who is constantly mad at her, doesn't want to talk to her, and is morose and depressed - and then blames her for the whole thing? Find me one woman who would find that attractive.

Are you at least capable of realizing that your wife has legitimate needs as well, and that her needs are not being met, and that your neglect of her needs is in all likelihood contributing to her lack of desire? Can you acknowledge that this is a possibility?

I know you want your wife to go first. You can spend the rest of your life sitting there whining and moaning about the fact that she won't do it, OR, you can start working on your side of the street.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS HERE! You are the only person anyone here can tell to go first.

MEET YOUR WIFE'S EN'S!

Stop blaming her for your feelings.

DO SOMETHING to make the situation better.

I continue to be astonished that anyone thinks cemar is even remotely interested in applying MB to his marriage. Or even learning the truth about the MB system.

I think cemar was initially attracted to MB because of a misunderstanding. He thought he could use Dr. Harley's description of ENs, and Dr. Harley's statement that anyone who wants a happy marriage should meet their spouse's highest priority ENs, as a club to beat his wife over the head about her failures. I imagine he thought he would get lots of sympathy because his wife does not meet his ENs. I don't think he expected to receive negative comments about his LBs and his failure to meet his wife's ENs. And I don't think he has any intention of curbing his LBs or meeting her ENs.

Not everyone is a Buyer. Not everyone is willing to pay the price (do the work) to have a marriage filled with mutual romantic love. I'm not. And I am fairly sure cemar isn't, either. Perhaps I am simply projecting. But I doubt I am. Cemar has been impressively consistent in his views. I don't think any of us are misinterpreting him.

This is ridiculous. Grown-ups are responsible for their own choices and their own emotions.

Oh, I'm sure you can find this sort of book. If you look hard enough, you can find a book that says just about anything. Doesn't mean the author had a clue as to what he or she was saying or that the advice given has ever actually helped anyone.

I don't think anyone believes that Cemar is even remotely interested in applying MB principles in his marriage.

I think we need to hang a sign that says, "Please don't feed the Cemar."

writer1:

People have lots of advice for phase 1, building romantic love, mostly by the man. Phase 2 is the woman actually has to change. MB should clearly have phase 2 laid out. Why bother with phase 1 if there is no phase 2? Give me a viable phase 2, and I will have no problem with phase 1.

I believe you are mistaken.

Phase one: Make yourself into a good spouse by meeting ENs and avoiding LBs.
Phase two: Invite your spouse to join you in your journey of self-improvement and meet your ENs and LBs.
Result: Romantic, Passionate love shared by BOTH parties in the marriage.

Phase two is made dramatically easier by implementing Phase One. It's typically easier to be nice and loving to someone who is nice and loving to you.

No, it doesn't always work. Sometimes a spouse has no desire to work on themselves. This is why Phase 2 cannot be laid out. There are no guarantees that Phase 2 will EVER happen - because you are dealing with the will and choices of another human being - whom you cannot force, coerce or browbeat into entering Phase 2 and having the remotest chance of achieving your desired Result.

Your wife may never choose to enter Phase 2 - that cannot be guaranteed. HOWEVER - Phase 2 is MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely if Phase 1 has been implemented to the best of your ability. Phase 1 gives you a CHANCE at Phase 2.... griping and complaining gets you nothing but a sense of self-righteous martyrdom.

And man/woman has nothing to do with it.

You are getting a lot of advice for phase one BECAUSE YOU ARE HERE. When a woman shows up here and indicates that her husband has a high need for sex and she isn't provided she is told to do one thing: meet his needs.

Because her having sex with her husband meets his needs, is implementing Phase one, giving her a better chance of success in Phase 2.

There are no guarantees, but there are things you can do to increase your chance of success - you have chosen to do none of them, because you want a guarantee. Sorry, life isn't like that.

Vibrissa:

So how the woman actually achieve phase 2? How is she going to raise her desire level? Please do not point me to the willingness to desire thread becasue the woman in that thread actually FAILS in the end. This website shoud already have phase 2 completely laid out.

You know how the saying goes. There are only two things in this world that are certain - death and taxes.

You're asking for a 100% guarantee that if you do Phase 1, then your wife will join you in Phase 2. No one can guarantee you that.

What I can guarantee you is that if you continue to do nothing, nothing in your marriage will change.

I'll tell you how I achieved Phase 2, by recognizing ONE thing:

In order for my husband to feel loved, I MUST meet his needs.

Phase 2 is completely enfolded within the Marriage Builder's philosophy. Phase 2 is laid out because it is EXACTLY like Phase one - only done by the reluctant spouse. And it is done out of a desire to love and care for the partner who went first.

Markos and Prisca are a great example of this. Markos arrived first - and it fell to him to implement what you call Phase 1. After months of working on himself - and a few regressions he got to Phase 2 by requesting that his wife join him. BECAUSE he'd worked so hard in phase 1 SHE DID.

It was difficult for them at first, but now they are at a point where they are mutually meeting each other's needs. And her journey mimicked his: she had to work on her love busters and meet his needs.

It is the same.

You say you want an increase in desire level - a woman who is actively working the Marriage Builder's program meets Emotional Needs not to get her own needs reciprocated, but out of a desire to demonstrate love and care for her husband. She recognizes that withholding sex from her husband is deeply painful and emotionally abusive. Because she loves her husband she has no desire to hurt or abuse him. Her love for him is expressed through sex.

I recognize that my husband needs physical affection. While I may chose to go days without being touched myself - he needs it. Thus, when I want him to feel loved, I desire to touch him, to love him, to make love to him - because I want him to feel cherished, accepted and loved. When he does things that make me feel loved - I am motivated to express my own love to him through sex. I desire him because he is desirable and because I want him to be loved in the way he needs it.

When I had my own 'dysfunction' I fought through it. Though sex was painful, though hormonally my body and mind were screaming at me to focus on my baby and let sex go for a while I refused because my love for my husband and desire to meet his needs overrode those 'dysfunctions'.

I can't keep my hands off him. I can't stop touching him. I can't stop pleasing him. For personal reasons I have been unable to sexually perform for the last couple of weeks. It's been a while since I have received any sex - but I have received plenty of fulfillment as I've met HIS needs through other means. You know - I still haven't felt much of a craving for sex. I'm not really missing it for myself. I don't want the orgasm. It's been a couple of weeks and I'm not dying without it. Because that is my sex drive.

But I was missing the sexual connection with my husband. I was missing the ability to love and please him sexually. So I've done whatever I can to please him. My body say's "Meh" to missing sex - my heart says "No way, I'm not missing THIS".

This is because of two things:
My husband is eminently desirable.
I desire to love him and care for him.

When one is dating and in the first throes of new love - the thought of withholding ANYTHING our beloved needs is anathema. It is the equivalent of cutting off one's own limb. That feeling typically fades, because the parties begin to neglect the love bank.

But if both parties consistently act in ways that show loving care that the other understands - that feeling doesn't fade. I could no more withhold sex from my husband than I would withhold food from my child.

Now will your wife come to this realization?

I don't know.

But I DO know that if you sit around griping about needing a guarantee, then she almost definitely won't.

First step is work on yourself.
Next step is to invite your wife to work on herself.

She may chose not to - but she may chose to.

If she does, eventually she may realize (like most spouses here have) that sex is a vital element to a relationship with you and desire to have it.

Or maybe she never gets to that point - or maybe she choses to not even try.

And you are stuck right back where you are now - but at least you gave it a shot.

Great post Vibrissa.

Seconded. Over the years I've been here, I've seen several ladies like Vibrissa who are able to articulate the woman's viewpoint with fantastic clarity. Whether or not cemar takes what she wrote to heart, Vibrissa sure is giving me some valuable insight, and I suspect that goes for a lot of lurkers as well. Thanks for taking the time to lay out your thoughts so well, V.

Why don't you call Dr. Harley and ask him?

Thirded, and it echoes what I pop in to say from time to time: you can implement MB flawlessly on your side of the street, but it is no guarantee of getting what you want.

No. You are responsible. While the spouse will have an impact on how you feel, you are ultimately responsible for your emotions (and actions). Just because someone says something hateful, I am responsible whether it ruins my day or not.



Wouldn't you be upset if she did this to you? You have a "if you don't do this, I'll do this" attitue. It's a tit-for-tat mentality. If you run off to your mancave, that's your own fault.

Well, your posts have indicated that you want more than frequent sex only. You want it a certain way with certain acts.I think if you were to meet her needs, stop lovebusting, and spending the UA time with her, you'd get a lot further. In the time you post on here arguing, you could have met a few needs here and there.

I think it'd do you much better if you got on here and said "Okay, guys...what do I need to do?"" And then do that rather than arguing right or wrong. Do you want to be right or happy?

quietness and depression and withdrawal is only natural.

Angry outbursts, on the other hand, are abusive, and if you are having them you are responsible for that, not your wife.

No no no. Not stuck in the same place. Stuck, but in a much better place. A place where you are proud of your own efforts. A place where you feel comfortable you have done everything you can to entice your spouse into engaging with you. And, a place where you have maximized your value / attractiveness if you decide to Plan D and go back out into the dating world.

Not the same place at all.