HHH, you got it...that song says it perfectly.

{{{Not to t/j myself, but I was curious about this group's music so been listening to a few songs - their covers of Metallica are pretty freakin' awesome (I was a metalhead once upon a time, ya know) }}}

It is pretty cool... I mean, metal CELLO?

HELLO?

I believe the same as... was it tst?... that your H can't resist you either - and that is why he keeps coming back.

His little comment about "you are the only one that will" seems more like a self-protecting way of him saying "you are the only one I want."

I think this is also revealed in his comment that he want's to see if the sick feeling will go away.

Handle it all with mittens, maybe. I know that the standard advice for chasing a WH is not to chase, but allow him to chose, but yours is not a WH, he is a heartbroken H.

Keep the gentle, loving contact going - even if it feels like it's not getting through, keep trying.

Some grains have to make it through, right?

"Until my heart stops beating."

"Maybe even then."

It's been two months since H left, and I am beginning to feel like I don't have any hope left for us.

I know that some will say that this is what I deserve, that I'm only reaping what I sowed, and I would have to agree.

I started therapy, but don't really believe it will help. The therapist thinks my depression stems from my inability to forgive myself. That may be true, but whether I forgive myself or not, he's still gone, so how to you get rid of the depression that comes from that? I'm taking 2 antidepressants now, one in the morning and one at night, and they aren't helping, even though by now they should be pretty well settled in my system. I go through my days in a daze. I obsess over this forum, and I don't know why. I certainly don't feel qualified to advise folks, considering the train wreck I made of my M. And reading others' threads just makes me sadder. I read the BH threads, those who are fighting so hard for their M, while their WW is either in the fog or in an active A...and part of me wants to grab those WWs and shake the snot out of them, scream at them to WAKE UP!!!!! The other part feels such shame and remorse because reading their words reminds me of what I put my H through.

I feel like I am living in a black hole.

My A - my choices - I made the decisions that have led to this. I wish everyone who is considering an A would understand this pain before they went down a path they would regret. To know how it feels to lose someone who is a part of you. To wake up every day in an empty bed, to go home to an empty house on a Friday night after work. To not even want to leave the office on Fridays because you know the house will be waiting dark and empty. To be haunted by memories and regrets everywhere you turn. But sadly, I doubt that would change the mind of someone who was already in the fog, who'd already started down this path of destruction like a car with no brakes.

Yes, I know I should start making decisions and taking steps to move on without him, since he seems set on moving on without me. Maybe I'll get there. I'm just not ready yet.

Saw him yesterday. He picked the girls up from school, helped them with homework, and when I got home from work the three of them were sitting on the couch, just like things were normal. When they saw me, the girls started clamoring for fast food, but of course different places; there was this second when H and I met each others' eyes, sharing in the humor of it, that I felt my heart drop to the floor. The four of us went to dinner, separate cars. Predictably the kids wanted to play in the indoor playground after eating, so it left H and I alone at the table. I made a couple of attempts at conversation that flopped. I sat there on the verge of tears the entire time, reminding myself to breathe in, breathe out. When the girls came out for a break, he said goodbye to them, and left a few minutes after they'd gone back to play. Somehow I kept from losing it when he walked out, but just barely. I texted him a while later saying that I lived each day with so many regrets, and that I wished he could give us another chance.

So yeah, I own this. Doesn't make me feel any better. It makes me ashamed of myself.

I'm sorry for the vent and the whining. I just get to the weekend and weekends are so much worse. I've been journaling, but what I write in my journal is much worse than what I write here - less whining, more self-hate, really. But I think part of me needs to write here so that maybe - just maybe - I can stop one of those potential WS's before they pass the point of no return.

Today's musical selection:



In this farewell
There�s no blood
There�s no alibi
�Cause I�ve drawn regret
From the truth
Of a thousand lies

So let mercy come
And wash away
What I�ve done

I'll face myself
To cross out what i�ve become
Erase myself
And let go of what i�ve done

Put to rest
What you thought of me
While I clean this slate
With the hands of uncertainty

So let mercy come
And wash away
What I�ve done

I'll face myself
To cross out what i�ve become
Erase myself
And let go of what i�ve done

For what I�ve done
I start again
And whatever pain may come
Today this ends
I�m forgiving what I�ve done

WPG, I know it all feels miserable right now, and many of us (BS and WS alike) are familiar with the feelings of depression and hopelessness.

You are still SOOO early on in this process. You've got to work through the crummy stuff on your own timeline, but I just want to remind you that it does get better. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Make sure you have plans in place to get yourself there, though - no foolish decisions driven by transient feelings.

One thing I want to suggest: give up the music. It breeds and exacerbates your feelings of loss, despair, guilt - you don't need that right now, you're doing a perfectly bang-up job of going through that all on your own. Cold turkey the tunes, because I can guarantee they're not helping.

Could not agree more!

"Music is the soundtrack of our lives." -- [censored] Clark

Ooooooooooooooooor, start listening to some music which lifts and motivates you.

2x4 coming!


How is this trying to meet his needs? IMHO, this is you trying to get your needs met.


Why don't you try to meet some of his needs?

A martyr is a sign of a renter. Right now that is what you are doing. If you are in Plan A, then you are trying to met your Spouses needs without worrying about getting your own needs met.

IMHO, inviting your husband to your pity party is very unattractive. Keep those feelings at bay when dealing with your children and husband, unless asked. Then you can be honest.

You know from first hand experience, that if someone is meeting some of your intimate needs that person will want to reciprocate with you. We are wired that way.

The above text, 'shoulda', would have made $LB deposits using admiration and affection. You should be constantly looking for these opportunities to make deposits.

I think that your Husband is doing a great Plan A on you. He is really using the stick on you. You need to get out of your Martyr Fog. Your husband has set a very high bar for you as his WW for him to accept you back. He wants a Buyer not a Renter for a wife.

I see your point, c_k, I could have used that text as an opportunity and I blew it. I guess I thought I was just being honest when I sent that text. I didn�t mean it to come across as whiny but it is good to have a male POV on these things, as to how H may have received it. I can honestly say that when I sent that text to him last week, I did not expect a response.

In fact, for the first time in this whole recovery process I don�t expect anything from him. I�m not depressed because he�s not meeting my needs, I�m depressed because he�s left me and has said he wants a D. And I am beginning to accept that he�s not coming back. That, in and of itself, is terrifying yet freeing at the same time.

As far as meeting his needs, it�s pretty difficult when he no longer wants to live w/me. Here�s what I�ve got:

I continue to pay all the bills and manage the finances, as well as continue to bring in income from my job. (FS)

I continue to keep the house clean and running as smoothly as I can, I am the primary caregiver for the girls except in the afternoons when they are with grandparents until I get off work. I've cooked dinner and invited him to eat with us. (DS)

I try to do as much as I can to spend time with the girls when I am not working, doing things with and for them. (FC)

I am willing and eager to have sex with him any time he wants it, even though he has told me it is "no strings." (SF)

I send him cards, letters, gifts, trying to meet needs for admiration & affection, as well as trying to be O&H with him. I also make it a point to be appreciative when he does something for us.

Conversation (unless it is about finances or child-related issues) he is not interested in with me. Sometimes we've had small talk about other things, but it's not intimate conversation.

He does not want to spend time with me, so RC is out. As far as AS, I�m keeping my weight down, and when I know I'll be seeing him, I always make sure I look nice, smell nice, etc.

I still maintain EP's and he still has access to email, cell, voice mail, etc. I did have to change my work password since he moved out (they expire on a regular basis) and he doesn't have that new one, but if he asked for it he could have it. I�m also careful not to LB him when we're together � I was bad for DJ�s and AO�s.

I work very hard to keep it together whenever I am around H, to not be weepy and emotional, to stay positive and upbeat. I was doing good on the day I sent that text, right up until we left the house to go to eat, and we took separate cars so he could leave from there to go back to the stepmom�s. The girls both wanted to ride w/him so on the drive over, alone, I just began the downward spiral. It can just be added to my ever-increasing list of screw ups.

H is not Plan A-ing me at all. There's a carrot and stick in Plan A, and he is not giving me a carrot. The only intimate need of mine he�s meeting is SF, and even though for me it is in the top 5, it is not my #1 or #2. My biggies are affection, conversation, and admiration. None of those are being met. When I was on the radio show, Dr. H said that technically what I am doing is not a Plan A, because there is no A going on, at least not that I know of.

But most days I do feel like I am being beaten by a stick.

WPG - mean to hit you with something from my academic/professional range this time, and what set me off is when you were talking about improving your "self-esteem."

We are going to go back to something we discussed before, something you are familiar with:



"Self esteem" is on the 5th tier, WPG. What do you remember learning about Maslow's?

You have to meet the lower tiers before you can meet the next successive tier.

Pretty sure your base physiological needs are being met... hey, even "NSA" SF has some use, right?

It's the next two tiers where things get bumpy.

Your safety is still threatened due to your situation with BH. Part of settling this may be some acceptance that it might be over - I know it's contrary to what I tell you every time I post to you, but I'm not saying give up - find the peace of mind to prepare should he never come home again. I believe this would also help you clear some of your expectations when you interact with him.

You are having trouble with love and belonging; you need to look at where you are receiving love and belonging - from your children, from other family members, from your close female friends. Nourish and maintain those bonds while you fight the good fight. Utilize your support systems. Eliminate any who do not support your goals and/or happiness.

Then, THEN, you can begin to work on your self-esteem. Then you will be free to know yourself and your worth.



Then again, I could just be a nutball...

Not a screw up, a learning opportunity.

Why did you start to spiral? I think by answering this you can get to what might be your problem. I suspect it might have something to do with expectations. This possibly have been a good chance at POJA: "How would you feel about taking one car?"

Of course you are not in "Plan A", but you are in a plan that requires you to keep giving, as you move from Withdrawal to Conflict to Intimacy (Three States of Marriage).

Somebody who truly wants a divorce will be on the path of divorce. Filing paperwork is the first step. Discussion of division of marital assets is another. And the last is child custody. As per what you write this is not happening.

What I see happening is that he helps with the children's homework. He does give a chance at Conversation. BTW, all conversation is Intimate when it occurs with your spouse. Without Conversation it is almost impossible to meet any other need. I would say the most intimate words that you could say to your Spouse is: How was your day? What does this question convey to your spouse? How can this question lead to you fulfilling your spouses needs?

So how do you want these needs met? What kinds of affection? What types of conversations? How do you want admiration given to you?

@HHH brings up a valuable idea. Do you want your husband or do you need your husband? It is crazy to think that a person who wants somebody but doesn't need them is more attractive than somebody who both wants and needs them. So in essence your plan has to get you to place where you want your husband, but where you don't need him.

The number one rule for a BS is not to be a doormat. The reason is because it makes them unattractive.

Have you been reading up on Open and Honest?

WPG....I read your thread a lot. I don't always post, especially when I feel the most empathy, because......I don't want to detract.

But I want to say this: You are a woman who made a terrible choice. You are also a woman created in God's image, redeemed and forgiven through repentance, and who is not 1-dimensional. You have value....absolutely.

And if you want a new song to listen to...try "East to West" by Casting Crowns. If I had some pull I'd broadcast it from that big screen in Times Square.

I know what it is to make a horrible choice. I know what it is to suffer consequences for the horrible choice I made. And thank God I know what it is not to be defined by that choice.

Just focus on what is important, what is true, and what is unbent.......there is a light at this end of this tunnel, and it doesn't have to be a train.

Hi WPG. i posted on your thread once before and follow it regularly bc i guess i am hoping my W will turn around in the same way that you have? i am sorry that you are going thru what you are. i wish that my W were as remorseful bc it is SO hard just hanging on. you try reading the tea leaves, trying to interpret the smallest phrases/gestures and are left wanting. i have gradually reached the point where i realize i can only control ME. i know people say that all the time, but i finally KNOW it. she's in Gods hands now. you are a rock and a wonderful person. it is alright to FEEL sad bc there is nothing wrong with having those feelings. it will make feeling happy that much better, and you are not defined by that sadness. it is that which will make you strong.

i wish i knew your H personally. in the same way you would love to shake some sense into wacky WS's like my W, i would love to do the same to your H. can u imagine? i would give my right arm for my W to be as repentant and giving as you are now. truly. just a couple of days i ago, i was thinking about how nice it would feel to have her say something endearing to me or to be nice to me or to simply say "hey come to bed" or "you should watch what you are eating." that is why in the end you WILL prevail regardless of the outcome.

hear hear btw. TB's words reasonate so strongly. you have gone before God and asked for forgiveness.

love this as well.

I was thinking of you this morning when I heard the new Third Day song on the radio (can't remember the name of it). I hope you're doing okay.

SMM, right on the money with your comment. I'll help shake him. Too many BHs I have posted to, too little remorse from both our wives.

WPG, never commented on your thread, but I follow occasionally cause SMM and I talk a lot. Your husband will come round, we all have felt the way he does - that we're done...that we tried and to hell with it. Have some faith and trust that you have a good man there who loves his kids and deep down you too. It might take a long time, but we are all on this road to no place if not recovery.

Keep the faith.

I just wanted to say thank you to everybody...I haven't had much to update my thread with, although I've popped in on a few others.

SMM and Reynolds, I had to kind of laugh at y'all wanting to shake my BH...truly, he's just doing what I gave him reason to do, to walk away from our M. I'm the one who needed shaking 2 years ago. No amount of remorse is enough to change what I did. But thank you for saying that - I do hope your wives have that "lightbulb" moment one day soon. I can't imagine NOT feeling remorse.

And I get it. I get that right now, I'm not being fully O&H with my H. I have not flat-out looked him in the eye and told him, for example, how I feel when he gets up after sex and leaves. I've been afraid to be O&H for fear that I'll push him further away, that I'll lose even the false intimacy that comes from "no-strings" sex.

I haven't told him that as he gets more entrenched at his stepmom's house, that more and more I look at him and see a stranger. That there's a part of me inside that just feels dead, whether that's my LB$ finally being empty or what, I don't know.

But I don't think he is being O&H with me, either. And he wasn't for years. I know, I wasn't either. He was unloving, I was disrespectful, and back and forth and on and on...and if we'd only had the wherewithal to stop the crazy cycle and just be honest with each other, well, we'd probably be in a whole different place right now.

No, he's not jumped on the divorce train as far as any paperwork goes. But I'm trying to prepare myself for that, trying to understand the laws and the process and what's involved.

And I understand the distinction between needing him and wanting him. I get it. I want him by my side. I want to share the rest of my life with him. But can I do it solo? Yes. I may not WANT to, but I can. I tell my girls all the time they can do anything if they put their minds to it, so it's high time I practice what I preach. To teach them that they won't fall apart on their own. I've lived on my own before. Granted, I was a grad student living on ramen noodles and didn't have kids and a job and a mortgage, but still, can I do this? Yes. I'll be OK. I'll survive. I have wonderful parents who live close by, I've got the best (girl!)friends anybody could want, two amazing little girls who depend on me, a job that (barring the annoying politics) is satisfying, and two irritating but nonetheless cuddly cats. I'll be OK.

I can feel that the depressive fog is lifting. The bad days are coming less frequently and I'm learning how to stop the spiral, instead of feed into it. My thinking is "less disordered," according to my shrink, lol... I've realized I am not going to hit on the perfect gift, letter, card, whatever that will make H come home, b/c I can't make him do anything. The only thing I've succeeded in doing is making myself miserable. And that makes me no darn good to anybody, not even myself.

So glad to hear this "update," WPG.

BTW, theres no such thing as no strings sex for most guys. Not that I encourage it if thats really what it is, but most of us wouldn't be looking at it that way even if thats what we called it.

Just my .02