I agree with the last few posters that said time to up the bar.

If he wants to have SF, he can take you on a date. Treat you with respect and spend time with you. He's darn lucky to have a woman back who loves him - I have learned how rare a thing that is.

After SMM pushes his wife out of bed, we are bringing over that bucket of ice water. Whats your address?

Hang in there. I wish my wife had all the remorse and feeling you do, and I consider myself as one of the lucky ones.

y'all are funny!

He'd probably not see it as being lucky...being lucky would have meant having a wife who didn't cheat on him. That's probably moving into DJ territory, I know...

We should have a chance to see each other one-on-one tomorrow. I'm still afraid of saying or doing something that will be that last straw, that will sever anything left between us, and he'll make sure to tell me what he really thinks about me while he has the chance - that the wild animal won't take the food from my hand, but will instead rip my arm off before running away for good. But at least I will be honest. I've tried my best to own up to what I did and face the consequences, but I can't predict what he'll do, I can't force him to do anything. It's better that he knows where I stand, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that reconciliation is totally off the table for him...if the latter is the case, then I have to begin detaching from him. And I can't detach from him if I'm falling into bed with him every time I see him. Wish me luck...

"It's better that he knows where I stand, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that reconciliation is totally off the table for him...if the latter is the case, then I have to begin detaching from him. And I can't detach from him if I'm falling into bed with him every time I see him. Wish me luck... "

The worst part is the not-knowing part. Once you know where he stands, as difficult as it may be if it's not what you want, you can plan for your future.

But you'll never know unless you are O&H.

I wish you all the best, and please know that I think of you often!!!

R is right here. you are deserving of respect. nothing less.

yup. there she goes. i keep on envisioning just a little shove.

tell me about it. am dealing with someone who is anything but.

Thank you, PUP - I hope that things are going well for you!

Well, I was not O&H yesterday. I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't say a word, and slept with him again. I mean, he's my H, so it's not like I am doing anything wrong, but...I have no resistance to the man. None. I'm frustrated and angry and I can only be angry at myself. I don't know what I am so afraid of. He's already gone. Not saying anything is just stupid.

He slept over last night again too, in the bed, and kept the girls today. He's taken them back to the stepmom's, where they are going to spend the night. And I'm fixing to LB here in the forum (well, there's nobody here except the cats, and I guess I've already LB'ed them too, but they did hack up a hairball in the middle of the floor). He comes over, has sex with me, eats the food I've cooked, stays in my bed whenever he feels like it, drinks the coffee I make him in the morning, drinks his favorite soda that I always keep in the fridge for him, and then can't even bother to clean up the dirty breakfast dishes from the morning??? Leaves trash and recycling on the kitchen counter instead of putting it in the garage???

He has absolutely no respect for me. I know what I did, and I will regret it forever. But he obviously has no interest in meeting any of my needs. He bops back and forth between 2 households where he has all his needs taken care of. I know he's the BH and I'm the FWW, and nothing I can ever do will make anything right again between us, and I've tried and failed at recovery, but please tell me, do I deserve this? I started this post and was furious, but now I'm finishing and I'm crying and thinking that he has every right to treat me like dirt because of what I did. It makes me feel so worthless.

I'm sorry. This sounds like a load of self-pitying drama queen crapola from yours truly.

PS - Reynolds and SMM, your wives better wake up and realize what a blessing they have in you. I feel stupid saying that I wish for that kind of forgiveness from my H, because if I was a better wife and person he wouldn't have anything to forgive.

wulffpack girl,

this isn't a good situation for you, he is doing this because he can, I think you sit him down and have a talk and tell him this isn't working for you, it makes you feel used. You tell him that you desperately want him back and you want to have a good relationship where you both feel loved, tell him you can see that he cannot get past the affair or forgive you. That you are finally realizing it.

Tell him that you are truly sorry for what you have done but you can't go on like this, tell him it is not worth your self respect and it is not fair to him to not let him move on with someone he really wants in his life.........
You made a mistake
You can't keep going on like this........

Thank you, jessi...I don't know why I am so stubborn or refuse to see the obvious, that he just cannot get past the A. And I can't blame him for that. I love him. I can live without him, I realize that, I'm capable of having a nice life with my girls. I sometimes don't know what I am trying to hold onto. I see the H he was the first 4 months of recovery, I see the H I fell in love with when we were dating. I guess I'm trying to hold onto that, I'm grasping at every tiny piece of him I can get just to hold on...but you are right, this isn't fair to either one of us. I just want him to be happy. I wish I could be the one to make him happy, but I blew my chance at that. I don't want to let him go, I don't want anyone else, but this limbo is killing me.

I posted on Boston_lover's thread earlier about working around the house together, and how happy I was just to sit on the couch together and fold laundry. When I washed those stupid breakfast dishes all I could think about was how we started cooking together - we had kid-free nights where we'd turn on some music, work together in the kitchen, we'd stop cooking to kiss each other. He was the H I'd always wanted and so much more...I know I was lying to him, then he thought my A was an EA only, and he was trying so hard to meet my needs and I was cruel to lie to him...so why do I keep holding onto that little blip in time, when I should just face the facts and let go?

WPG,

I'm finishing and I'm crying and thinking that he has every right to treat me like dirt

I think you have to put your foot down on this behavior for one thing you don't know if he has been fooling around, you luckily escaped STDs, but that doesn't mean he will, and your kids need 1 healthy parent.

And really you just need to wait, I know it takes a minimum of two years for recovery after the last D day, but time has to be tacked on for false recovery.

Also I think because you were a good wife he is having a harder time of it, you fell further than many of the wives of BHs here, the fact that you rose back up faster does not carry the same weight. Mike_C2 had a similar story awhile back.

Just my $0.02, but after you posted those pictures of your redecorated kids rooms, I couldn't help but think that you were for the most part a really good wife to him, and that's the big issue.

God Bless
Gamma

WPG,
I'm not as wordy as most on here. But to be cliche, two wrongs don't make a right. Him treating you like this, will not make the A go away. You are bettering yourself, and letting him do this isn't helping. I'm so very sorry you're going through this.

Just some thoughts I've had over the course of all of this:

*Recovering the marriage is a form of forgiveness, and of success - that we as adulterers failed, but there is redemption in salvaging the marriage. Thus, if the marriage ends, we have to face the worst of the worst, KWIM?

*Recovering the marriage keeps the good memories good, and preserves dreams - past, present, and future. If the marriage ends, it's letting go of all of it - it ALL ends. Even the memories are different, as they would now be of something that's ended, over, done in your life. KWIM?

WPG, I do agree that you're reaching your limit here. Have you spoken w/ the Harleys again - the radio show was suggested a while back, right?

Also, another quick thought: the support on here is great, and I think we all appreciate kind words from others. However, when it comes to comparing marriages - WWs, BHs, etc. - you're entering dangerous territory. I mentioned something similar to BostonLover earlier today: don't spend your energy on all of this other stuff when it's best directed toward your situation, your marriage, your (F)WS. It's YOUR M, it's not anyone else's, and the more you look at other people's, wishing and hoping, the more you take away from your S and your recovery.

It's a minor point here, I think, but still thought it worth noting.

Sorry, me and my unsolicited advice today!

Gamma, BL, & Mrs. V, thank you for the feedback.

@Gamma - I can't imagine him going out and having a RA, but then he could never have imagined I'd have an A. I don't want to believe he's capable of that, but he's been doing a lot of things I didn't believe he was capable of.

I also don't know that I was a really good wife. We were stuck on a "Crazy Cycle" for years, where he'd do something I perceived as unloving, I'd react disrespectfully, etc (Eggerichs, [Love & Respect). I don't know, maybe it's just what I did that causes me to pretty much view my entire self in a different light. I know that well before the A, I cried myself to sleep many nights because I felt unloved and rejected. I was desperate for attention and validation from him, and that's part of my continuing problem - looking for validation from others, rather than myself. Because of that looking externally for approval, I don't know if I ever internalized that I was a good wife or even a good mother. I never even thought his family approved of me - but how his mother has treated me since she learned the truth, now I know she loves me. It would be easy for her to hate me for what I did to her son, but she doesn't. Anyway, that's just navel-gazing on my part...


You're right, Mrs. V. I guess what I have been holding on for is that redemption that would come from salvaging our M, and it's probably time I face the facts that I will never have that redemption. That I have failed. We may be equally responsible for the condition of our M pre- and post-A, but the failure of our M is a direct result of what *I* did. Not to get into a discussion of faith, but as a Christian I should believe God's forgiveness is enough, and I'm ashamed to admit that I want my H's forgiveness more. And we did have dreams, we had plans...and memories? I've been with H half my life. He's a part of me. Maybe it sounds hypocritical to say things like that, after what I did to him, but it's the truth. My entire adult life has been me and H. When I try to imagine life w/o him, I can't, at least not now.

I suppose I could email the radio show again. I just can't imagine getting any different advice than I got last time - Dr. H talked about how men don't want to be pursued (not like a husband would do for a wife - women want to be pursued) and that he has to choose me. And he told me not to leave the marital home and to talk to an attorney. When he weighed in on the thread a while back when the issue of Plan B was being debated, his advice was to keep going with Plan A as long as possible, that if it gets too hard, separation was an option (which I'm guessing, since we're already separated, it would be a Plan B), but that in my case, separation would probably lead to divorce.

Maybe that's what needs to happen. I know "time and patience" are he watchwords here, but at this point I probably need to face facts and move on with my life without him in it. If he decides later to join me, I just hope I still want him when he does.

And you're right, I've been told before not to compare my sitch with others. My BH is not like another, and obviously our R is not going to follow the lines of any others. Wishing things were different is pointless. Might as well wish I had a time machine! As my grandpa always used to tell me, "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."

Too bad we couldn't get a seasoned vet email him or reach him by telephone to talk to him that way, too.

I think there is a lot to reflect on here; to allow him to choose you, to try to leave room for him to make the choice, to draw proper boundaries to protect his LB$ balance with you so that the opportunity still exists.


WPG, there is a possibility here that you kind of miss. You state "I just hope I still want him when he does."

You know how this works - you know the concept of LB$ balances - how romantic love is created, how it is maintained.

If your H pulls far enough away that he is no longer making deposits, if he stops with the behaviors that are making withdrawals, then a fresh start is a possibility.

So, it comes back to the start, again; preserving that opportunity, and allowing him to choose.

So, concentrate on making yourself the best choice (+ points; already the wife, mother of the children). Yes, do the "life without him," but whatever you do, DO NOT allow anyone else to make any deposits, DO NOT even think about opposite sex friendships or dating.

1) Establish your goal.

2) Prioritize your goal by it's importance.

3) Give your goal the proper length of time to be met in accordance with it's importance.

@ CAG... yes, but...he had told me months ago he had talked to "enough" people and was tired of talking about "it." And I think, as jessi said, that I see that he can't get past what I did, and he has every right to leave the M after I cheated on him. Not every M can - or should - be saved, and not every BS can get past an A. So it hurts, it sucks, but I made my choice two years ago, and if he believes ending our M is the only choice for him now, then I have to accept it. I have to accept that I will have to find redemption for what I did somewhere other than my M.

HHH, I thought about what you'd posted to me today when I had my IC session. Talking about how our M was, and she said that yes, while I did make the choice to have an A and failed at my M in that sense, since we both were responsible for the M I needed to take the "rose colored glasses" off and realize that he failed me/the M in a lot of ways. I feel bad bringing up the bad memories b/c I told H that I forgave him...but I started talking today about when I had that lumpectomy towards the end of 2008 (probably posted about this before but can't remember), and how Dad had to take me b/c H wouldn't take off of work, and I started crying all over again. It's probably stupid since it turned out to be nothing, but I was terrified...but for my part, I never came right out and said "I need you with me." No, I just "expected" that if I was important to him, he would go with me. I realize now that line of thinking was wrong, and I should have been honest with him then. But I wasn't, and whatever his reasons were, he chose not to go with me. IC said I need to be remembering all those resentments I had, all the times I was hurt. Which would be fine if I had no hope at all and was completely done with the M, because dwelling on that stuff could run that LB$ down to zero...but it would be counterproductive to focus on all of that, because it won't do anything to protect his LB$ if reconciliation is what I want.

I understand what she is driving at, being she's an IC and not a MC, her goal is to help heal me as an individual. And frankly, she's as confused about his behavior towards me as everyone else. And there is no M for me to work on right now, just me and my side of the street.

So yes, I'm working on life w/o him. Completely uninterested in looking for anyone else, no worries there. I still maintain my own EPs and apparently I have boundaries now with everyone BUT my H...

Preparing to start some home improvement projects, without his input or guidance. Started thinking about selling the house once everything has been reno'ed, and actually went and drove around some other neighborhoods nearby where I could afford a house on my own. It wouldn't be my dream house, but so what. This was my dream house for a while, but without him, it doesn;t really feel like "home." I can envision a future without him. It's not the future I want, but at least I can see that I'll have a future.

One of the hardest things for me to think about, though, is that making the decision to move on, to stop fighting for my M, I'm making the decision for my girls, too. Again, I guess I made that decision in 2009. They certainly weren't on my mind then. But now I'm deciding for them that I'm not going to fight for them to have both parents under one roof...they aren't going to have their dad in their lives every single day. That it's reduced to whatever custody agreement we work out.

And it's not that stopping the fight means I've lost all hope. If he chooses me in the end, then my prayers have been answered. A "fresh start" together is a possibility, if both of us are willing to commit to meeting each others' needs. If he doesn't choose me, eventually I'm going to be fine.

I think I'll try to take a break from the forums for a little while. I think I've gotten a little too consumed in them. I've had days I get nothing done at work or nights I sit up way too late...I do a lot of reading here and have gotten invested in so many stories. But as much as I will miss this place, I need to work on me for a while. I don't even know the real names of folks on here, let alone their faces, and I'd count many of you as some of the best friends I've had. I think there is something to be said for the commonality of our experiences, being able to learn from each other, cheer for each other, pray for each other, and cry for each other.

As my DD's would say, peace out.

We'll be thinking of you, WPG. Check in when you can.

Bull Manure! You need to change this to:


Your husband is still coming to you for his ENs. He has not left you and the children. If he was truly done, he would be gone.


If there is one thing I believe, this is the marriage before A, except now it's part-time.

Is this you again being the Martyr?

What are some of the solutions to this? (Hint: Use MB Principles)

WPG,

Right now I think this might be your best plan, your husband needs to figure out where his life is going without you in it to confuse him. If he truly can't live without you then you will know, he will come back in the right way........
If he doesn't then it wasn't meant to be and that he can live without you, I know that thought is hard to comprehend but he needs to figure that out.......
I think keeping yourself busy and just reinventing your life is a good thing for you.
Somewhere down the road you are going to know without any uncertainty what life is the best for you.....
Focus on your girls and shaping them into the best women they can be.......don't protect your husband he is responsible for himself, no one is perfect. The trick is learning to be better then we were when we made our mistakes.........
Pat yourself on the back for trying but it is time to take your self respect back......
Just say yes to everything and see what life offers you, (jim carey movie plot line)
Can't remember the name....
Good luck......

I agree with Kent on everything but the martyr stuff, although he might be right on that too, I just haven't read enough of your thread to know (sorry).

He is having you fill his ENs. It is a part time marriage. Its up to you to up the bar for him.

I still have this bucket of icewater...just say the word.

me too. i'd even offer to smack him on the head for ya. recently overheard my W talking w/ a close friend of hers from childhood. she was quoting me when i told her that in "2 or 3 years you will look back at this and regret all of it [her A's and wanting to end our M, 5 kids, etc]." she laughed at the idea. scoffed. thought it was ludicrous. my MiL had told her the same thing. W didnt want to hear it. your H, WPG? he too is not ready. maybe he never will be. change can only happen when you are open to it. at least he is male so when he realizes how dumb he is behaving he will eat his crow happily. i think women can be a little stubborn about it. once you guys have made up your minds it is VERY difficult to change it.

WPG,

Seeing an attorney is not the final act. Seeing an attorney is simply being prudent and wise. Dr. Harley knows he cannot advise you on the legal issues in your state. I believe he wants you to seek counsel, weighing all your legal options, before actions that lead to a legal seperation or divorce become necessary to make.

It's a fact finding mission only!

So make an appointment and see what someone has to advise you. Be 100% honest with the attorney about your situation and see what they have to say.


...As far as things with your husband???
It's obvious to me that he's not done with you or the marriage!!!

Look, you're NOT fighting an affair here, your dealing with a withdrawn spouse.

IMO, what makes your own situation difficult is your DH is a conflict avoider, just like you are. You both have perfected the ability to go from intimacy straight to withdraw without even touching the conflict stage. That's one of the conditions that led to your own affair and it's a condition that allows him to deal with and/or avoid his own painful conflicts.....

Couple this knowledge with the fact that he was betrayed and maybe you'll find some empathy for him.

(((((((((WPG))))))))))