Why can't you ask him to give it up? If he understands this program, he should be willing to give it up. If not, then you have a bigger issue here, and that is that your H places his hobby before his marriage.

The problem I see here is that some of you have not used Marriage Builders at all. Why? If you are not able to implement the program on your own, there are many other resources to help you, such as phone counseling, the online program [they have a coach that calls you every week and motivates you] or the free radio program.

And once you found something to do together that you both loved, and became each other's favorite recreational companions, you would both be unbelievably happy. More than you can imagine, right now, because it's hard to know what that looks like when you are not in it.

I'm just as serious.

AD, have you and your H tried filling out the Recreational Companionship questionnaire?

My H and I filled it out recently. There are tons of ideas on there. We have really different interests too, but we found lots of things that we both would enjoy doing. We had a few good laughs too (like when we imagined how many people we would maim if we decided to take up archery).

No we haven't writer.

It actually intrigues and excites me to think there might be something we'd mutually enjoy doing together.

However, I'm a little stunned that some of you think he should give up his individual interest, or even cut back to any extent, CONSIDERING how much he has already done/given up for me.

Also, if I had asked him to give up his interests when we got married, he likely wouldn't have married me. The fact I was easy going about his hobbies in comparison to former girlfriends is something that attracted him to me, (his words at the time).

Sacrifice in marriage creates resentment. You have years of sacrifice that your M has been built on. It is no wonder neither of you feel "in love". This has to change to build the love between you.

AD,

You blame your unhappiness in life to being married to someone you don't "love", and I see in your posts how you find him unattractive, etc., etc. From this your unhappiness is extrapolated - your own deduction, not mine.


I point you in the direction of "choice". People choose happiness.

Yes. Choose it.

I did say this. Happiness is not something you pursue, like a butterfly across a field, flitting one way and fluttering the next. It isn't like that.

I once read (I believe it may have been either the Dalai Lama or Deepak Chopra, I do not specifically recall) a lecture regarding happiness. (Also, do not panic, I also read Christian, Jewish, and Muslim authors, so as to understand many points of view on the topics I read, happiness being only one of them.)

This particular lecture asked this question: Have you ever woken up in the morning, and just woke up happy, in a good mood, just really ready to face the day? No particular reason, you just woke up feeling terrific? Or, on the other hand, have you ever just awakened to a bad mood, even though there was no real reason for it?


The point of the lecture was that these "feelings" of good or bad mood, of "happiness" or "sadness" are not necessarily context-dependent, nor are they even necessarily based on ANYTHING in the outside world. A person can - and we DO - wake up "feeling" happy, for no external reason at all. We still owe the same bills, we still have the same crummy job, we are still married to the same person, but we wake up feeling pretty good that day.

Given this


we can CHOOSE that same feeling - that mood - in spite of the "external" conditions we may believe are "making" us unhappy.

Because we have proof upon waking that we can be happy

in spite of the fact

that those conditions exist.


Happiness is not dependent upon external conditions. It is an internal condition. You make happiness inside your own mind. In some way, you choose happiness. Otherwise, poor people, sick people, hungry people - would never be happy. Ever. Yet, there they are, by the millions, happy.



That was the point of the lecture.




As to the hobby issue - you might be quite surprised if you just actually joined the man once or twice a month in his activities, and asked for a bit of his time doing something else.

You get things in return when you are willing to give.


So far, you seem to resist any suggestion that there is even a remote possibility of a solution. You avoid that you might possibly even slightly be able to move in the direction of loving the man.

Again, a choice.

He would be sacrificing nothing, giving up nothing, losing nothing, if it were YOU that were his interest, his passion. If his time spent with you was pleasant, passionate, romantic... then that would very well be true.

Your comment, AD, sounds like self loathing turned out and projected at your BH.

"After all I've done, why would he love me? Why would I ask for more?"

That's also part of a wayward mindset. Don't go there.


Do you want to create a loving, romantic marriage? YOU are here, he is not. YOU have the info.


LEAD THE WAY.

I am sincerely confused.

On one hand, I am rude and cold-hearted for not accepting an air kiss from across a table, yet otoh, I should ask him to give up/cut back a lot- his life long hobbies for me/us. I can't and won't do that. I don't see that as a wayward mindset, I see that as an unselfish thing to do. Not to mention, I can already hear him LOL and mocking me for even asking. He'd laugh louder than he did at the suggestion of leaving his 25 yr career because he travels too much.

I missed this part, so I'll just say that I hope you weren't rude.


I don't see it as a wayward mindset, but I do see it as a sacrificial thing to do. And I don't feel that sacrifice is good for a marriage. I believe that everything in a marriage can and should be "win-win."

Sacrifice in marriage is something that people with a Renters mindset do, not something Buyers do.


If you are assuming you know how he will react, then you are actually committing a disrespectful judgment against him. The truth is you do not know how he will react. Especially if he is presented with the Marriage Builders concepts and sees how such a marriage will benefit HIM.

That is the key to respectful persuasion: show him how this choice can benefit HIM.

Just think, not so many posts ago you were telling us that you two didn't have any interests in common. Now you say you are intrigued by the idea that you could find common interests. You learned some new information, were presented with some new ideas, and you have engaged in a small bit of personal growth. Good for you! Your horizons are now somewhat broader.

Now, who is to say that the same thing cannot happen to your husband? See why it is judgmental to assume that you know what his reaction will be? You are saying he is not capable of learning and growth.

I have been married to the man 27 years. He would have to be on his death bed to give up his hobbies. I was going to say paralyzed, but then I paused and realized even that would not stop him. I suppose I could be wrong, but I just don't see any scenario, even if we had sf every single day, that he'd give up his hobby or even cut back substantially. I can't think of anything that would shock me more.

For those following, he is sleeping in my bed again, and as long as I go to bed tired enough, his snoring doesn't wake me up very often. He still wakes every night sometime in the middle of the night and goes to sleep in another room so he can have the tv on. He does seem to want to be around me more often, almost to the point of clingy. Not sure what's up with that, because he's never been like that before. If anything, I used to be the clingy one.

I'm not saying he's incapable of personal growth. It's not a dig I'm making toward him. I just don't see how giving up your interests for your spouse is necessarily personal growth.

It seems a couple has to give up all personal identity in order to have a good marriage? Am I hearing wrong?

It starts with sacrifice, thinking that you are being unselfish to not ask for your needs to be met. That sacrifice withdraws units from your LB$ until you go into withdrawal. Once you hit withdrawal, your Taker takes over, and then it is him that is selfish, or you see yourself as undeserving.

When you hit that point, nothing good happens; you think divorce, you feel - well, exactly like you feel now, you have a "loveless marriage."

All it takes from there is a lack of boundaries and/or a lack of opportunity to go from a withdrawn spouse to a wayward spouse.

It's the exact same behavior that wrecked your M to begin with, the same behavior that made you vulnerable to an A, coupled with poor boundaries.

Does that make more sense to you?

You've already locked it in your head that you simply can't ask him to sacrifice anything.


Well, how about you don't ask for a sacrifice? Why don't you focus on becoming a better companion? Why not focus on being more appealing than this "passion" of his?

What if it was possible for your spouse to be your interest? Would that make more sense?

What if rather than focusing on your personal identity, you focused on your identity as a married couple?

It's like the story about the two trees that grew close to each other - on the surface you see two separate, distinct trees, but beneath the surface, their roots have become entangled to a point that they are no longer two separate living beings, but 1 being; each nourishes the other.

The whole is greater than either of the parts.

Yes, that make a lot of sense.

Autumn, when was the last time you and your H went out on a date?

Right now, are you guys spending any UA time together at all?

Tomorrow's Friday. Why don't you ask him out on a date? Go out to dinner. Do something fun. Focus on relaxing and having a good time.

Yes, last Saturday, and it ended in an argument while still at the restaurant. He told me I was too skinny and he doesn't like it..... and I... didn't let it slide... I was so hurt because I am more physically fit than I've been in my entire life. I've never been overweight, but I've also never been so fit/muscular. I should have let it slide though. It was not pretty. I could tell the waiter totally caught the vibe, even though we argued in fairly hushed tones. ugh.

Okay, how about you try again and this time, do your best to keep it light and fun. No relationship talk. If he does say something offensive, brush it off and don't react.

What did you guys used to enjoy doing while you were dating? You must have had fun together, or you wouldn't have gotten married. What did you have the most fun doing?

How much UA time are you currently getting?

I hope you don't think I'm trying to beat you over the head with your mistake. From what you post, it seems you do that more than enough to yourself.

That's why I said that it seems you have this self-loathing that you are turning outward on your BH.

I see it in my FWW's eyes whenever I hit a dip in the roller coaster. I can't imagine what it's like to be in those shoes, especially after you move past the fog and revisionist history.

AD, do you think your inability to forgive yourself is hindering your ability to open up to your BH?

I know writer, it was a really stupid move on my part, and I had been pretty proud of myself the last couple of weeks in brushing stuff off. I think he's been flabbergasted by that, because it's never been my M.O. to let things slide. When he made the -too skinny and I don't like it- comment, it really got to me though. I said, "Really, are you kidding me??? I defy you to look around this entire restaurant and find another woman in my age group or even 10 yrs younger who looks as smokin' as me, and all you can do is complain???" I do have to say, that later on, he DID apologize, and told me I look great. I think the fact he's overweight and out of shape, and knows I don't like it, probably makes him wish I looked more like him? It would make things easier, I'm sure. Who knows?

By MB rules, we don't spend any UA time together, however, we have been spending a lot more time in the same room, which is more than we used to do. We sit next to each other- me on my laptop, and him on his iPhone playing solitaire... for hours. We sometimes talk, but mostly not.

No HHH, I don't think you're hitting me over the head. I was being sincere when I said it makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure I have trouble opening up to my husband because of my self unforgiveness, I think I just stopped trying a long time ago, because I don't ever seem to be able to articulate, or he doesn't seem to get it. Most likely though, a terrible combo of the two. As I indicated earlier in the thread, I don't think there are two people that communicate worse to each other, than we do. It's so very frustrating, and such an emotional drain, it hurts physically to try to explain myself anymore.

You mentioned awhile ago about doing the MB program or counseling with the Harley's. What's the status on that? I would absolutely do the weekend program if we had the money for it.

And going to dinner alone counts as UA time, so you do have some.