cemar,

Just two responses. First is that it seems that there are many people on here who are advising you to study and answer your questions via MB concepts and advice. The second is that in regard to romantic/passionate - I like the majority of other men have experienced both with her for a long time, and the two are inseparable in terms of how you treat and respond to your lady. So, I don't worry about that.

Good luck,

Tom

Says who? Do you know any women like this in real life?

Cemar already said he does, which means that, if he isn't having an affair, he is in the very least having inappropriate conversations with other women. It would be impossible for him to know about other women's sex lives without having some form of inappropriate contact with them.

After struggling with this thread for days, I have finally reached the conclusion that cemar actually wants a porn star for a wife.

The problem as I see it, is that porn stars actually make very poor wives (or husbands, for that matter). Maybe it's because while it's okay to make work a pleasure, making pleasure your work is detrimental to one's relationships.

Not that I'm an expert, or even knowledgeable in such things, but I surmise the list of porn stars who have long-term, stable marriages is this long:

I would guess that if Cemar is not having inappropriate convos with women to gain this so-called information, then he is basing his knowledge on self-help books.

Sexual hang-ups are in the eye of the beholder. Just because my husband wants me to do a particular act but I don't doesn't make it MY sexual hangup.

I don't really see any evidence from Cemar saying what he does to get his wife in the mood or to encourage her to think sexually. He's right, being a good guy is not enough. But romancing through the day, touches, cuddles, telling her how hot you think she is, those will get you more honey than being aloof, curt, self-righteous.

The other thing is that she feel uncomfortable acting in an overtly sexual way. Since you can't see inside her head you don't what she feels during the course of a day, and her actions may not be telling the story either.

I find the fact that she reads romance novels to be very telling. It may be that she wants to be romanced and is getting it vicariously through the stories.

I see it that way too H2CU, it in the eye of the beholder.

I remember when there was a lot of people I knew that were avid pot smokers. I was friendly guy, and had occasion to talk to them ,but when they brought out the weed I said no thanks.

Of course they would question this, "Was I religious, afraid, what was the reason?" I would say I am fine just how I am, and didn't need to change my brain chemistry, or alter my reality. I said I knew it was all in peoples heads.

Of course they would challange this, and suspected me of being a narc, also trying to sell me on pot, like I had some kind of problem. But I had smoked before, and after the first gigglefest at 14 even sold it. I was not a stranger to drug abuse, I just saw through it and grew up.

I told them, "I don't have a problem, its your free time, spend it like you want, but I feel its a waste for me. If it makes you feel free, then let me be free also please. Truth is you are the ones with the problem with me, not me with a problem with you" They loved the feeling pot gave them, and thought they were treating themselves to something, I knew better.

But it was in thier eyes that I had a problem, I suppose if it was porn and orgies, it would be the same.

Cemar might be one of those people who make deals with others, and thought marriage was just a deal for his needs, and wants to argue them and demand them. Where he gets the idea that women with HD with no other emotional needs would bother to get married and have children, I can't emagine. Maybe he reads the playboy letters or the fantasies in porn mags. Maybe he looks at pictures and adds on porn sites and accually believes them to some extent.

Its been my experience those kinda goldiggers play the field and keep themselves in shape so they can screw whoever they want, and keep a cukold or marry a sugar daddy when they are not that appealing anymore. Lots of hookers out there, not many are on this site, and they will rob and steal you blind because their lazy.

Maybe he is just confused, and fighting with every last ounce to get what he thought he deserves, what he thinks the deal should be, why he got married in the first place. It doesn't seem he thought it out, or investigated what marriage is about or he would have been prepared. A lot of guys aren't, but some listen, and some go down flaming, Cemar wants to crash rather than have his self-image challenged. He is still thinking with the wrong head.

Cemar, just because a women desires to have an orgasm, and you deliver it for her, does not mean you two are in love, it means your in heat. Its a nice thing yes, but life keeps going after sex, as a matter of fact naturally it can create life itself. Thats when you start to learn about love also, if your listening.

princessmeggy:

3 of my sister in laws are HD. 2 of them have sex virtually EVERY day, and they are constantly touching there husbands. One of them actually interrupted a get together so that she could go screw her husband while we all waited in the living room. I have been on other marriage boards over the years, and there were several HD women on there, and amazingly, even though they had relationship problems, they NEVER became LD. Roughly 15% of woman are true HD's. THey have sex drives that rival a good HD male.

writer1:

It's called being on marriage help boards for the last 15+ years. One thing that I know is that HD women I have met on these boards have NOTHING in common with LD woman. It is like night and day comparisons.

And it never occurred to you that the women on these boards may be exaggerating, or even outright lying?

There are quite a few HD women on this board, and none of them seem to understand where you're coming from either. I have yet to see a single person - man, woman, HD, LD - on this board who can understand or empathize with your point of view. Doesn't that tell you something?

Fred_in_VA:

THen I guess that I must have married a porn star and never knew it. My wife used to be like EVERYTHING that I want. In fact, what have I asked for is NORMAL for people that actually have bodies that work. Lot's of people do NOT experience a drop in desire as they age. See couples like this all the time.

Your SIL's tell you that they're having sex every day?

Doesn't that strike you as inappropriate?

I can honestly say that I have no idea how often any of my relatives are having sex because, well, that's not really an appropriate topic of conversation, especially among members of the opposite sex, regardless of their relationship.

This just basically proves that you're having inappropriate conversations with female members of your own family. It doesn't matter if they're related to you or not, it's still inappropriate.

Again, how on earth do you KNOW that all the people you're seeing are actually having sex everyday?

Do you talk to everyone you meet about their sex life?

writer1:

The LD woman on this board have already ADMITTED that even though their husbands have done everyting that was required, their sex drives did NOT return. They are having sex with their husbands because they LOVE their husbands and that is NOT the same as having sex because YOU want the sex. THe BEST sex I have ever had with my wife was when SHE was horny FIRST, when she came to ME for hot physical sex.

Happy2CU:

My wife reads romance novels, and that is not a good thing. Romance novels are essentially female porn. Guys use porn with pictures, women use porn with word. I think that the key element with romance novels is that the newness factor kicks in. Women in new relationships have a surge of chemicals that mimic testosterone, and they become HD. I am wondering if most romance novels are about SHORT term relationships, and how many are about that 25 year relationship with one guy. My fuess is that most are about NEW relationships.

ConstantProcess:

I don't get why wanting a highly sensual and sexual marriage is wrong, which it seem to you. I have read Song of Solomen, and that shows that God believes marriage should be HIGHLY sexual, as well as many other things. How about the passage on oral sex for women, "As the apple tree among the trees of the wood, so is my beloved among the sons. I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste." This does not sound LD to me.

I amstill confused, why are we asking men to forget about desire? Our wives get all the desire, and in return we only get love, and WE are jerks for wanting to feel a little desire ?

And maybe your wife feels like she wants love but all you do is desire her. Nobody wants to be just a plaything.

There is no HD/LD cutoff, its all a continuum and varies immensely on the relationship people are in. But you haven't listened to this before so I don't see why you would now.

My HUSBAND (MAN just in case you aren't paying attention) became low drive when I wasn't meeting his needs.

Interestingly you quote 15% of women as being high drive. I wonder is this a coincidence that its the same statistic as are in truly successful marriages?

Thats an interesting take on what that passage means, I will have to look into it someday and see what exactly "Taste" was supposed to mean. I know "fragrence" or smell has a different meaning in the word than I would first understand it also.

I woke up from a dream last night, one of those about my late wife and her WW ways. It was a recurring theme that I have had before, but part of it reminded me of sex drives and passion. I will try to explain what I saw in it.

We were driving in a caddy or some big car, and it was when she was playing the innocent Wayward crap I used to have to deal with a few times in our life. We were fully clothed and I had her in the back seat and was explaining that I didn't care if she "had friends", or "needed time alone", or even if she drank other that she drank to much and didn't take care of herself. What I could not stand and hurt the most was other guys chasing her and her liking the chase. I pulled her to my lap and ground my swollen self into her firmly as we talked, and her eyes widened and her mouth opened slightly as she started panting and groaning. I was very passioante in my tone and advances, holding back a very possesive and physical desire to take her right there. Many times that was how I was sexually, the drive was so strong I had to be careful I didn't hurt her, because I was strong physically. I would hold that during foreplay also, and be extremely gentle and tender.

There were times I swore she wanted me to possess her physically to an extreme, I mean maybe even rape or on the edge of violence, treating her like a possesion, like I owned her. I was very aggressive sexually, different positions and did everything that turned her on. I think what ever was missing for her was emotionally entrenched in her mind, mixed with guilt and past. I would take her to the edge but never hurt her, because that was like her extreme of her alcoholism and destructive. But there was drive somewhere inside me that wanted total possesion, and I wondered sometimes if that was what I could have acted like, chasing her from bars and ending up in jail beating up guys and being an addict to those emotions. I just didn't think that was love really.

What I came to realize with my drive was that there is a part of me that wants to take her and possess her before the world. In that is a form of passion that rivals violence in its intensity, and would probably be like the violence in the animal nature of man with his mate if threatened. It even seemed like the hieght of this feeling would be shameless public display sexually before anybody, and being powerful enough to fight off anybody else who was in competition. Sounds like a romance novel doesn't it? The main theme ussually was "She somehow just hated him, and thought he was crude, and then she found herself being taken".

Its the conflict that keeps marriges alive in the romance dept, and the knowledge you can lose the other. Big question is to most is how to fight fair, and not lose the war by winning a battle. Maybe your wife has lost that passion because she has bigger fish to fry than that now, and does not see how important it is to you. So she gets her adrenaline rush in measured doses in romance novels because they have more imagination than your relationship.

No Cemar, desire is very important, and respect and fear of loss and possesiveness and passion. I think they all need to be there in thier proper place, being held back till the proper time, in the bedroom, (or motel room you take her to for a getaway). Marriage should never be boring but never dangerous either to keep the passion alive. Its a tough road but its worth it. I hope you can be one of those dime store romance novel guys she falls in love with again soon, without the disasters that seem to happen when marriages lose this quality.

Can you get her to come here? Does she see that your marriage is in trouble? We have asked this before, I don't know if you answered.

Rosycheeks:

Got my statistics straight from Dr. Schnarch.

I don't know what the answer for Cemar is. I don't know if he'll be happy or not. I think most relationships in the beginning have a lot of sex... I assume this is because ENs are being met and couples spend a lot of time together. I would assume the second is good because women don't tend to keep wanting to hav sex with a man that's not very good at what he does.

I do know that my wife and I were still having plenty of security when ENs weren't being met because we both like second and because we were marries, can't get it from someone else.

Now I will say when all the needs and what not are being met, the intimacy is A Lot more fulfilling.