You do need to calm down and bear in mind that what he did 3-4 years ago was before you were trying to use MB in your marriage.

It is not good that he did not tell you until this week, but is it possible that he genuinely did not make a connection between those acts and the MB programme - or even that he forgot about the acts?

Did you ever take the personal history questionnaire once you started the programme? Was there scope for markos to describe what he did, and did he lie about it?

I'm much calmer now. I'm not giving up -- that was spoken in anger, and shouldn't have been said. I didn't say anything like that to Markos, btw. I've managed to keep myself calm and my mouth shut around him.

I realize what he did was before were active in MB. We lived a different lifestyle then, too. I was gone overnight a lot. That doesn't happen anymore.

He did, however, know how I would feel about it. We talked about porn before we were married. I told him I considered porn to be an extreme betrayal, unfaithfulness, and biblical grounds for divorce. I told him that I believed porn to be an online prostitute, and I would not tolerate it in our marriage. I know a lot of people don't see porn as seriously as that, but I do and he knew it.

He knew what he was doing. He let me believe that our marriage was porn-free and that he always averted his eyes from anything arousing.

We did fill out the personal history questionnaire last year when we got home from the MB Weekend. He did not mention this. He doesn't know why.

Prisca,

Now you know the truth. This is a GOOD thing.

I know this information is extremely hurtful to you, and I completely understand.

It sounds like you are saying that you were mostly venting from the shock of learning about this, but that this new information is not changing your desired goal of a recovered marriage.

That's good to hear.

So...

where do you go from here???

Extraordinary precautions that will eliminate the environment for using porn.

Is that being done? What are those EPs? Has Kim/Dr. Harley been informed about this revelation and the pain it has caused you?

Hi SMB!

His porn usage happened at a time in our marriage when we had very few EPs in place. Like I said earlier, I think, I was gone over night a lot during that time. He doesn't remember the exact date, but it was during the time that I went and spent the night at my parents house a lot (they lived 2 hours from us). I believe it was around the time I had postpartum depression. Markos thought that if I could be happy again, then we could fall in love again. And he thought that if I were to visit with my family, I would be happy.

Anyway, on top of that we both had our own computers. I never looked at his or ever felt any need to.

Things are different now. We never spend the night apart any more. And I now have complete access to all the computers in our house. I don't think he could look at porn now without me knowing.

I haven't talked to Dr. Harley or Kim yet.

So why are you so mad Prisca? Because he didn't tell you sooner? Because you feel like he does things on his terms and with 'his' rules?

You are angry at him. Do you think he is presenting himself inaccurately?

Because of this:

We spent 30 minutes together tonight in which we worked on our Conversation lesson. Dr. Harley talked about friends of conversation and the enemies of conversation.

After the lesson, Markos got up to do some chores, and I went to bed. I'd just fallen asleep when he came in and said "Hey, I'm tired of you getting angry when I stand up for myself ..."

I guess standing up for himself means LB me all day.

Earlier today, I mentioned to him that I didn't have much food in the house to feed the kids (we haven't been out to shop since we got home from our trip). He became very upset with me, and it came out that he was resentful because I have not yet implemented a meal plan and shopping schedule. He spent the afternoon LBing me over that, and bringing up other issues that I have supposedly "refused" to negotiate with him.

I eventually told him to let me know when he wanted to talk about it without LBs. Had to repeat that a few times before he let it drop.

Then I told him that when he is willing to use Dr. Harley's method here of making a complaint without LB, I'd be willing to talk to him. Also asked him to use the Four Guidelines for Negotiation or I just wouldn't talk to him about the issues he wanted to bring up. I'm tired of being beat on just because he's resentful. And I'm tired of being accused of not being committed to MB when he won't even make a complaint without LBs.

We successfully negotiated a few things that were bothering him after that, including trading off nights taking care of the baby. I guess he's still upset and resentful, though. I'm sleeping in another room tonight. Don't feel like laying next to him, awake, listening to him snore.

Why can't the man show just a little respect?

"Prisca, I know you've been trying to make things up to me, and you've been putting a lot of effort into making sure we spend time together. But I have a problem ... I don't feel like it's enough time together and it's really troubling me. Do you think we could do something different?"

"Prisca, I am about to collapse from the stress of having to take care of the baby every night. It would mean a lot to me if you would help me out. Would you be willing to negotiate?"

"Prisca, I know things have been very stressful lately, and you're under a lot of pain and pressure. But it is really bothering me that we are eating out so much instead of cooking at home. Could we negotiate a meal plan?"

I would respond to these very thoughtful requests, if they were worded like that. Why must he, then, attack? Why must every complaint start out by hitting me over the head and making me feel like scum?

You "mentioned" the food. How did you put it? Was there anything that could be seen as an AO or DJ? Most people would accept that the fridge is empty after you've all been away for a week. The shopping routine has been broken and you need an emergency trip. Why would that have made markos angry?

Did you (earlier) agree to draw up a meal plan and shopping schedule? Have you done so? If not, why not? If you agreed to do this, can you see why it would be annoying for you to NOT do it and then complain when the consequences become clear?

Can you see that if he DID use the guidelines for negotiations in the past in order to resolve the food and shopping issues, and then you unilaterally reneged on the agreement, he would not feel like using the guidelines AGAIN, this time to negotiate over why you failed the original agreement?

Can you see why he might be disillusioned with "safe negotiation" when he negotiates, believes that an agreement has been reached and then finds out later that you did not fulfil your part, especially when this happens over and over?

Apparently, this is what happens over UA time and bill-paying; markos believes that a safe negotiation has taken place and an agreement has been reached, only to find later that you did not or will not keep to your side. He might not see the point of negotiating after that happens several times.

The AOs and DJs are completely unacceptable, but your behaviour might be fuelling the AOs and DJs. If your behaviour stopped, the AOs and DJs would stop. I believe MelodyLane says this about her own situation years ago. Dr H told her H to STOP his AOs, but he also told her to stop the behaviour that was bringing them on. She did stop, and the AOs stopped immediately and for good.

(I realise I might not have the correct picture of your marriage, so please correct me.)

I don't know why it made him angry, it caught me off guard.
We were talking about lunch the day before, and he was wanting me to remind him what he had eaten. I then, as a related topic, told him that I wasn't sure what I was going to fix for lunch. He asked if there was any food in the house, and I told him there wasn't much. Later I came back and told him I'd made the kids biscuits. He then launched into me.

The meal plan is already drawn up. I made a 3 week schedule for variety. He has the schedule and shopping list in his email. He agreed to do most of the shopping. All he has to do is print it out and go shopping. Or renegotiate. I don't care which.

He has rarely used the guidelines. What usually happens is he has a problem, he beats me over the head with LB, and then I finally make a reluctant agreement to get him to back off. Yesterday was different in that I refused to talk about it unless he used the guidelines -- even then, he had already committed several LB.

This does not happen. We rarely enter into negotiation.


I don't know what I could be doing, other than I don't just do whatever he's demanding and expecting.
I have stopped all IB. Which means I am now bringing things up to him instead of just handling it on my own. So when I ask about the budget, or I mention needing food -- when I'm WANTING to plan with him -- he lets loose. He says he's resentful. And I think that's a big part of our problem.

Prisca,

Did Markos complete that EN list of "how to" meet his ENs?

If so, are you using it to meet his ENs in a way that he enjoys every day?

If not....I'm about to kick his butt!

Yes, he did. And I've been following it, although not perfectly. Affection has been a difficult one -- I haven't felt very affectionate.

BUT things are beginning to look up again. Markos told me yesterday that he has no reason to be resentful of me now, and he's going to cut it out. It was wonderful to hear him say that, and I feel as if a massive load has been lifted off of me. I think his resentment made it nearly impossible for any of my attempts to meet his EN to get through.

Then he let me know that his boss is going to let him work at home Tuesdays and Thursdays, which kinda makes me giddy He's in the other room right now working. It's nice having him home. He'll be getting off in 30 minutes, and will be helping me get the kids ready to go to the gym. We should get 2 hours alone tonight. I'm looking forward to it.

He's made massive love bank deposits in the last 24 hours!

SMB, Markos tells me that you gave him a massive 2x4 that really got to him. Thank you! I think we're both feeling a lot better now, compared to the last month.

A BIG thank you to all of you!

This has been an absolutely wonderful, spectacular week.
Markos and I are actively protecting each other and filling each others' love banks.
We're focused on the future.
And it looks heavenly.

This is lovely to read, Prisca.

What did you both do right this week? What did "actively protecting each other" involve, specifically? Do you think markos's working at home has been a factor?

Can you identify what is was, and then keep doing it?

Yes, think about what the two of you did RIGHT. Pay attention to what behaviors are affecting your outlook toward your marriage.

I think things really changed when Markos gave up being resentful and I quit being defensive. We stopped focusing on the mistakes of the past, and started looking at the here and now.

I started really cracking down on DJs, and created a plan for myself:

1. Shut up
2. Eliminate anything that causes me to dwell on Markos' mistakes and that would reinforce DJs in my mind (journaling, venting)
3. Empathize with Markos


This seems to have worked for the most part. I don't find myself thinking disrespectfully of him anymore.

It has been 3 weeks since Markos' last AO. One more week he will have eliminated AOs according to Dr. Harley's forms.

I have changed my perspective from using MB to protect myself from his LB to using MB to learn how to protect Markos from myself. I no longer see myself as being in a defensive war against him. Rather I see us together, on the same side, hand in hand and fighting a battle against the things that would destroy our marriage. We're on the same side.

SMB, you've told me several times that Markos is not my enemy. I believe it now We're on the same side, wanting the same goal.

We've learned to give each other a little grace. We had a conflict on Sunday morning. I didn't want to do something, and he inadvertently made me feel guilty for not doing it by using a poor choice of words. I was hurt. But we didn't fight. He apologized. I extended some grace, and told him that we both were still learning, and we agreed to move on. The rest of the day was great. A month or so ago, that little conflict would have been the end of the world for both of us.

Empathy and grace goes a long way.

Very Nice. I'd love to see him post how he is dealing with the AOs....

Today is the first day that Markos is no longer allowed to work from home. I miss him something fierce.

It's been a great few weeks for us, with him being home. I don't think it was any mistake that he was allowed to be at home during a very crucial time in our relationship. It was very, very good for us.

And I miss him.

I miss you, too, darling. :*

Oh my gosh, you two!

I have not read here for awhile and I come back to this!!!

I am so happy for you both.

But why isn't Markos working at home anymore. I'll go read his thread, maybe it's on there.

Great perspective about it all though, Prisca. Maybe God arranged it for such a time as you needed.