No, you are not wrong. Intimacy in marriage = oral sex.

What I don't understand is why you are here arguing this with people you are not married to.

Maybe he meant she is an "expert" in BJ's and not marriage?

Wait. Arguably, 5 marriages could make someone an expert in marriage.

Cemar, I don't think it's fair to yourself or your gender to say that your definition of intimacy is demented. What the others are trying to say to you is that each and everyone of us are individuals and each and everyone of us has that right to say what is intimate for us,what we like and what we don't like - INCLUDING YOUR WIFE.

For some, oral sex is offensive because they don't want to put what their partner urinates out of in their mouth...especially, if the partner is not very hygenic. My mother becomes legitimately, physically ill even at the thought of oral sex. For her, it is repulsive, not intimate.

Just because you like it doesn't mean your wife does and asking someone to do something sexually that they don't like is not intimate, it's abuse. Put yourself in her shoes and think of something you may have read or heard about sexually that you dislike or would never try - that's what you're asking her to do.

BTW - I'll say it again. If you refuse to do anything to change your situation, you lose your right to complain about it.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, it's making her an expert in something, for sure. My money's on going through the divorce process.

I dunno ML, more likely she's an expert in divorce :p

Cemar, *your* definition of intimacy is obviously not the same as your *wife's*.

She possibly feels the same way I do about it. But you will never know because you won't ask her.

Women are NOT mind readers, have NEVER BEEN mind readers and will NEVER BECOME mind readers. If you don't open your mouth and TELL HER your opinions and feelings, how can she know that something is amiss? Don't tell me that she should pick up on your pouting and running to the man cave as something being wrong in your sex life.

FYI someone mentioned earlier that her reading romance novels is a sign. It sure the heck is!! She has desire, Cemar but you're being too pigheaded to even consider that maybe *you're* not doing something right. All you're doing is blaming it on hormones, lack of testosterone, age, having babies, anything you can grasp and hold on tight to.

Go ahead and hold on tight to those "reasons" and justifications, Cemar, those are all you're gonna have if you don't move your a$$ and get started working on your marriage.

Over and out!

Here's a definition from dictionary.com:


Notice that one example is sexual intercourse, not oral sex.

So your saying that OS is not a deeply intimate experience to a lot of men?

I'm sure it is deeply intimate for some men, and some women as well. I'm equally sure that other men and women don't consider it intimate at all.

And your wife is one of the women who do not find it intimate. And, since she's the only person you're married to, her feelings about the topic should be the only ones that matter to you.

Do you know, cemar has been here arguing about his need for kissing and oral sex since the day he signed up about 9 months ago. It seems from reading his first thread that he was on another forum before this one, discussing the same thing.

I'll bet he's still here in 9 months' time having the same argument!

I'll bet he's still here 9 YEARS from now having the same argument, and refusing to do anything at all to actually solve his problem.

I just wanted to mention that I am a guy with a very loving wife .. and OS given to me is not my greatest idea of intimacy. I love giving it to my wife (she loves it too, since it is very intimate for her) .. however recieving it on the other hand just doesnt cut the cake for me. I could take it as foreplay.. but not the means to the end. Infact .. MB brought us to a better place to discuss things and my wife always assumed (16 years later) that all men liked and needed it and it would give her a sore neck and she would do it reluctantly. After making our marriage safe using MB principals, I finally told her to stop doing that since it takes so long .. and that i didnt really enjoy it that much. To my surprise she was relieved! She said "so all these years .. you really didnt enjoy a BJ for the sake of a BJ?" I then told her "nope i didnt realy enjoy it that much, but felt you would htink i was weird if i didnt enjoy it as most would think men enjoy that"

It was like a revelation in our sex life

I prefer things to be much more involved emotionally and physicaly. My sexual vitality is dependant on how emotionaly connected we are and a BJ just seems so ... non emotional to me. Maybe I am just weird .. but theres many other things i prefer. *shrugs* even if it means I get to burn all the calories lol.

I think everyone here is giving cemar good advice. However, I think you are all operating from a false premise. That cemar is looking to improve his marriage. Pretty clear at this point he isn't much interested in that. Likely he has his reasons. Instead of assuming he wants advice on how to improve his marriage (silly idea that because someone is posting on a site called Marriage Builders that he wants to build a better marriage ), you might want to explore what he really wants.

On the other hand, unless he is a complete dimwit, he won't publish the truth about that. Because I don't think that what he really wants would reflect well on him in a divorce proceeding or if his children ever read his posts. So I doubt you will get the deep down inner truth from him. But perhaps I am selling him short.

Hold, I think everyone here knows what Cemar really wants.

And I don't think anyone here would be willing to help him figure out how to get it.

Well, maybe all of you do. I have an idea of what he wants, because he and I are not so different (except, as I said, that I don't much enjoy receiving oral sex). I was hoping some of you might not be so cynical. Then again, anyone who has spent substantial time here has seen enough bad behavior that hardly anything comes as a surprise anymore.

I'm not cynical. It's just that Cemar has been here since last July and has made nearly 200 posts, and every single one of them have been about sex.

I think it's fairly obvious what he wants.

To the contrary - I think the posters who have responded to cemar over the past months and over all of his threads (regarding the same topic) have shown a remarkable degree of patience and commitment to helping him.

He doesn't want the help.

writer1:

Why would I focus on something other than sex? Darn near everything is related to a persons sexual self confidence.