Yesterday we spent the majority of the day car shopping, and it was quite nice. I actually think I didn't commit a single love buster, so I'm really happy about that.

We had lunch with a friend, then car shopped all over the place, and about 60% of the time we were laughing and joking around. She got depressed a few times because she can't afford what she wants, but it was time spent together.

At the end of the day, she was extremely tired, so she asked if it would be ok to sleep at the house instead of driving back to her hotel room. "Of course that's OK." She got to the driveway and fell asleep in the car. So I went in, got blankets and pillows for both of us and came back and put one on her. I fell asleep in the passenger seat. She woke up a bit later, re adjusted, and fell asleep again using the pillow. Later she woke up, then woke me up, and said "I'm going inside" and went in to fall asleep on the couch. We said our goodnights, and went to bed. Right now she is in the shower, and I'm gonna head to the store to get some eggs and bread to make her some breakfast.

She has gone out for a facial right now, and a guy from work called her and she said she was gonna go hang out with two of them. I asked to come along and was told no. So I have the day to myself.

Damn - that must have smarted. How did you respond?

I'm not sure my response in such a situation would have been... pleasant.

Woot,

The reason I asked you to get a GPS for the car was because you need to KNOW what she is doing.

It MAY be just hanging out with a couple of friends OR it may be coverup for having or continuing an affair.

Continue to Plan A but start SNOOPING big time.

DO NOT CONFRONT HER WITH ANYTHING YET UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT SHE IS DOING. To accuse her of something now and have it turn out to be false will destroy any chance you have.

FIND OUT WHAT SHE IS DOING FOR CERTAIN before confronting her or doing more exposure.

If it's an affair you've got some exposure to do regardless because your Plan A is worthless during a current affair.

Get busy with a VAR and a GPS on that vehicle.

Hang in there Woot!!!

Jim

My reaction was to stay calm, just say "Alright, but I really wish I could be there to have fun with you."

I'm worried about becoming a doormat about things like that. Her going out with guys is not alright with me, but I don't know what to do about that at this point in time. I guess I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on when she doesn't want a marriage.

I'm looking into the GPS and voice recorder right now, I won't be able to use them until she gets an actual car. Then getting access to it is gonna be a [censored].

My counselor that I saw today said that I should try to have a conversation with her and establish where we are. I don't know if I like this idea. What are yall's thoughts?

Woot,

Your statement says it all.

If you WANT to try and recover your M you have got to get your WW to want it too or you are just prolonging the inevitable.

She thinks that you will never change based on past behavior...

You have got to SHOW her that you have changed to have her even consider coming back to the M.

I think that you are doing a GREAT job with being thoughtful and avoiding lovebusters.

Dr. Harley recommends H to TRY and do up to a six week Plan A to show your WW what a REAL M with you could be like then to go to a Plan B if there are no results with the understanding that you probably WILL have to go to Plan B to get her to SERIOUSLY consider recovering the M.

The key word is TRY.

No one would blame you if you cannot take six weeks of watching your WW ignore you and hang around with other men.

That's what I would do.

Try the Plan A as long as you can with the understanding you may have to go to Plan B...

and be pleasantly surprised if you don't have to.

You really are doing a great Plan A.

Keep it up as long as you can.

I would NOT confront her with a "where are we at" speech right now as she REALLY doesn't know WHAT she wants right now. Which is the truth.

Jim

I agree that I would not do as the counselor suggested. In plan A you do not have relationship talk. In the original wooing of her, did you constantly harp "What are you feeling for me now? How about now? And now? etc" Nope.

You appear attractive and desirable for whatever juncture it permeates her thoughts and you do exposure in a fell swoop and you do state that you will not share her with any other man (statement made at various junctures but not dwelled on) and then you go to plan B and go dark if she does not commit to the marriage during plan A.

Please please Woot go to the thread (a few days old now) about an xww coming back. I'm running late or I'd link it here.

However on that thread, is the WAY MY FRIEND, a MB superstar, got his xww back even after divorce and it was how he did it.

He did an awesome plan A, but implemented a few things you need to do. 1)he never ever ever begged, pleaded, or even asked about their relationship. 2)he always seemed CALM, confident and together. Nothing needy. No need of reassurances. 3)he kinda did a makeover man style (I called it a man-over) and changed his hair, clothes a bit, and always made sure he looked amazing and it showed! 4)He always did a great plan A, but applied the truth when applicable.

He did the same things when he went to a darker than dark plan B. He also made sure that these things were done always. you see, as a woman (I have about 40 years experience with that )we want a guy who is strong, attractive, and not needy. Not at all. Our kids or maybe those we serve in our jobs (I'm in medicine) are needy, and we want a partner who is the opposite.

Please read that thread and re-read it. When she says she's going out to eat with A MALE FRIEND from work/unit or whatever, tell her great! Give her a big kiss (peck) and a lingering hug and then tell her you're going out to meet a few friends. She cannot see you waiting around for her all the time or contorting yourself into crazy positions to just keep her PLACATED and PACIFIED.

She knows you're trying to get her back. Given. She knows and may even be testing the boundaries right now. But what will lure her back in (LURE HER) is the mystery of a calm, utterly cool and collected hot guy who doesn't beg or plead or ask for any reassurances.

Example. My hubby laughs about this one. Why do I think Daniel Craig (the new James Bond) is so cute? Easy. Watch Casino Royale. He's cool. He's calm. He dresses great. Not the most amazing and hot man who ever walked the earth, but it's his coolness. He doesn't cry or wimp out when somebody tries to knock him off. He doesn't plead with a woman. He's together, he's assured, he has loads of confidence. He oozes confidence. Women btw, find that irrestible.

I bet when your ww and you were dating, there was something different or unusual about Woot that drew her in, lured her in. What was that? What is that je ne sais quoi? Find it. IMPLEMENT all this instantly while she IS HERE and there is an opportunity for FACE TIME with her. When she's gone, it's gone too.

Use this time as an opportunity to show her that guy again!

Here's another example. My amazing hubby is the exact opposite of a guy I dated briefly before him. (We got married last summer on the beach!)

A few years ago, I went out with this guy and met him for dinner after he asked me out. His family is influential and from the area near where I work, and all my girlfriends told me he was a "great catch". He was nice looking, well-educated, smart, and had a great job.

We went on a dinner date. Nice dinner. He was so sweet. Just so so so sweet. I was at the time, a super duper single mom, who worked all the time. The day after that date? Dude began texting and calling me all the time. I did go on one more dinner date with him b/c I felt kinda sorry for him. He was just so so sweet, and so nice, but I felt SISTERLY for him. Nothing else. He did not make me want to date him at all or move closer. After the second dinner date with only a peck on the cheek at all, I went silent. My friends said since I felt nothing to do the kind thing and break it off.

Next he began calling nonstop, texting nonstop, and even went so far as to send a huuge arrangement of flowers to my work. Normally, if a girl is slightly even interested in a guy, she flips for flowers, but NOT if she feels zero for him. The guy called me and then next asked if I wanted to go shopping, did I need new clothes (sound familiar Woot?) and what could HE DO FOR ME to make me want to date him (nothing!). I had to be mean and break it off.

He didn't make me want to see more of him. He was no challenge. He was no mystery. He was not the type of guy I'd like. But he had some of the qualities.

Fast forward a year. I meet a really interesting guy (My DH) out eating sushi for a friends' birthday party (I don't go out much actually). We make small talk, he hands me his business card. Asks if we could have dinner sometime when it was good for me. He does NOT PLEAD.

Did I call that number? Well yea. We go out to have a same dinner date. He's interesting. We get to know one another and talk all the time. WE begin texting alot. He's so different from the other guy. Why? He never asked me how I felt about him. He never plead with me about one darn thing. He was calm, confident, utterly COOL. He was attractive. I remember that he was so strong and so together. Smart, well-educated and always dressed nicely. And he always had the best hair (he still does) b/c I can see how great his eyes are. I was hooked! 3.5 years later, we're still madly in love and we're happier than ever.

It's the silly little things differently that can make a woman FEEL differently Woot. Little things. And the little things elicit a different response from a woman.

Thank you for the story and the advice peachy!
I'll start reading that thread as soon as I'm done writing here. I haven't had much time to get on, since my wife has been around a lot. Time with her I feel is more important than browsing the net.

The last night I wrote in about, I invited her to a BBQ with some friends, and she said she was gonna come home after they went to a movie. She said this at around 3ish, so I waited until 6ish and sent he a message asking her how it was and she said that she had just got out. I asked if she was coming home tonight, and she said yes but she didn't want to go out anywhere. I waited until 8:30, still no sign, so I went out to the BBQ. When I came home at about midnight she was asleep on the couch, so I took her shoes off and tucked her in then went to bed.

Yesterday, we spent the whole day car shopping again. It went alright, and we actually found a truck for her. (I'm jealous, I really like the truck, lol). Then in the dealership we were filling out the paperwork and as a gauge as to how she felt I asked what she thought about putting the loan in both of our names if it got a lower rate. She replied "Well then that makes you partially responsible for it." So I said "Yes, I know, its a trust thing, and I don't think you are gonna sign here and then run off. I trust you." She smiled a little smile, then pondered for a bit and said she was fine if it got a lower interest rate. Turns out it was the same with just her, or with both of us, so we got it in just her name. Then at 10pm we got back to the house after buying the truck, and she wanted to return the rental. I said "Julie, I'm not comfortable with me being the passenger with you driving at this time of night, you fell asleep twice the other day and it scared the [censored] out of me." Then we milled around for a little bit, and headed out. We ate dinner at In & Out, then started driving to the airport. She was cracking jokes the whole night, and it continued at dinner. We were having a good time. OHH side note: At the dealership, she was cracking jokes and as the final paperwork was about the be signed, she got up and said "Ohh, just kidding, we didn't actually want to buy a car, this is just a date for us, we enjoy doing this." A date As she climbed into the car to head off, she initiated a hug and said "Thank you."

So anywho, back to the night. We drove to the airport to drop off the car, and she let me drive home without a word about it. Good thing too, because 10 minutes into the drive she was out like a light.

Today, when I woke up I asked her if she wanted to go to church with me, she said no. So I got ready and went. Too bad I had the wrong time and missed it. (I'm still new to this church.)

Then I came back and she was cleaning the house, but seemed really pissed at me. I tried helping where I could, but I always feel like I just get in the way. Then as the morning progressed, taking a note from the "Love Dare" book that I got from that movie someone recommended on these forums I asked her "What are three things that annoy you or make you uncomfortable about me?" And she said "Well the thing that pissed me off. The reason I stayed in a hotel that first night, was because I figured the house was a mess and it would give you a day to clean it. Yea, that didn't happen. I'm sorry you married a neat freak" (I actually did clean, I spent 3 days and hired a maid to help me clean, but I'm not skilled at that) I kept quiet, and said alright. Are there two other things? and she asked "Why are you asking me this now?" My reply: "Because I need to know what I'm doing wrong, if I am going to be able to change them." She still hasn't said two other things, and it took her a long time to even ask "why are you asking me this now."

Right now we are going through all her stuff, we went to her storage unit and brought some of it back home, she is going through it and I've been helping. We are going to take a load back to the unit, and the rest I don't know.

Later this evening she is heading to a Spa, and she says she'll be there for a few days. She won't tell me where it is, and if I ask about it she gets defensive and angry. Yes, its sending up alarm signals. She even said "I didn't even tell me Mom I was going to this. So I don't want anyone to know about it." Umm. Hmm...

I feel like I'm getting mixed messages, and I have to keep reminding myself. Marathon, not a sprint. Its tough. I want results now, not down the road. Lol.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement guys. Time to go read that other thread.

Woot,

It does sound like your WW is undecided on the course to take as far as divorcing you.

Which is good news as it gives you time to work your Plan A.

She is letting you meet some of her EN's which is great.

The bad news is it really does look like she is either continuing her affair or has started a new one.

There really aren't too many reasons for keeping her spa location secret from her BH that don't include an OM.

Really think you need to get that VAR in her new truck and if you have time the GPS ASAP.

On a positive note you ARE making progress with her because she is allowing you to meet SOME of her EN's.

Keep meeting the EN's she will allow you to and step your snooping with the VAR and a GPS. You will want a great Plan A in place before having to do an eventual Plan B.

Has she let you into her hotel room yet? If she has check the phone to see if the ringer is turned off when you are there. You might also be able to get into the hotel room yourself when she is "at the spa" by telling the hotel staff you are Mr. Woot and you "misplaced" your key and doing some real snooping.

Jim

She only stayed in the hotel the first night. The rest of the time she has slept on the couch. She no longer has the hotel room. I have a hunch that the hotel room was so she could meet whomever that first night. Now I think she is off to spend time with this person. God its tearing me apart right now, mainly because I have NO idea who it could be. She wasn't deployed with anyone she knew... She just got back knowing noone... Maybe one of her co-workers at her unit?

Yeah, I need to get snooping. Unfortunately she has left now for her "spa."

We had a really nice afternoon together, once we sorted through her stuff we went for a motorcycle ride, got some pizza and had a really nice conversation during which she told stories. This was a first since she's been home. Then we went for another motorcycle ride and then left with a good bit of clothes for her "spa."

Is there a way you can follow her to the spa, saying I started your vehicle and it was acting up, gonna follow you to make sure it will be alright?

She's already gone.

I am SO tempted to call her and ask where she is, citing that with the history she has its not fair to me to keep secrets. That's what my Mom said I should do.

I guess kind of confront it and call her out that I think she is off with another man, and that I am not OK with it.
This gut-wrenching feeling is not fair to me.

Woot,

I am so sorry you are going through this...

I agree with you AND your Mom.

Call her and tell her that your place is with her and to let you know where she is so that you can join her or she needs to come home.

If she refuses you are going to have to do a nuclear exposure to everyone. You cannot let her do this to you or she will not have any respect for you. If she gets mad...

so be it.

You may have to get ready for Plan B.

If so it needs to be PLANNED and not a spur of the moment or in anger.

Remember to ACT not REACT.

Jim

We've had 4 days back together...

Plan B already?

and I have no proof with which to expose.

*sigh*

Just called her. Didn't go well.

"I don't want you showing up in the middle of the night like 'let me in'"

"I'm sorry if this seems sketchy to you."

and I say: "This isn't fair to me."

"You're right, I'm being selfish for once. Bye"

Woot,

Your decision as to how long you can take what your WW is doing is ENTIRELY up to you...

If you can TAKE her doing whatever she is doing then by all means continue your Plan A as it is the BEST thing that you can be doing.

I myself could not allow Mrs.Flint to do what your WW is doing.

But that is ME and not YOU.

The ability to PROVE what she is doing left when you did not put a VAR or a GPS on her new truck...

I know you just bought the truck but you REALLY should have bought the VAR and the GPS BEFORE you bought the truck because you knew from the hotel what she was up to ESPECIALLY when she started talking about a new vehicle NOT in both your names.

Your ability to continue Plan A is your choice. Dr. Harley says Plan B is to PROTECT your love (and your sanity) for your WW when they do not respond to Plan A.

If you can take what she is doing and not lose all your love for her then I would continue your Plan A as long as you can.

Jim

!#$!^!^

I feel like all the Plan A work I was doing, got completely undone with that one phone call.

I panic'd and I don't know what to do.

She is very much engaged in an affair is she wont let you know where she is. Huge red flag.

what is your point of no return here?