Radical Honesty is an important concept for a reason. You have to tell your partner exactly what you need from them in order to love them. If you're not doing this then you can't expect them to get it right.

maritalbliss:

OK, here is radical honesty for my wife: "I want you to kiss me every day because you WANT to kiss me, not because I am asking for it".

So how does she get to that level? Doing this for 3 weeks to develop a habit is NOT going to solve this problem. The HD person still knows that they are not really into it.

Cemar, how can you possibly know that once your wife gets into this habit, that she won't start to enjoy it and do it because she actually wants to? How can you possibly know that unless you at least give it a try?

cemar, UGH!!! Do you see that you've essentially said, "Don't kiss me at all unless you want to." Is that what you're after? For the LD spouse to determine the level of intimacy? Why would you want that? You are shooting yourself in the foot, sir. Stop.

Like Steve Harley told my H: You're getting in your own way in your quest to get what you want.

Cemar ~ how about addressing some of your LBers and let's see if your W gets more "into" you.

What do you say? Good place to start, don't you think?

And refresh my memory...why won't you send your W here?

Cemar, Ms. Writer,

My God Ms. Writer I was wanting to check on your situation and then this 'thing' is still going on! Ms. Writer and Ms. Bliss no matter how I turn this it just seems this guy is using this site to elicit, period, and some of you women are cajolling him. In my h.o. this guy should be communicating and debating this with his wife and not on here. It upsets me because this seems to detract from the mission of the MB site. Period.

"I want you to kiss me every day because you WANT to kiss me, not because I am asking for it". Cemar, let me tell you something Baby, I agree with Enlightened - ask yourself, maybe she isn't just into you anymore! Maybe it feels like an obligation and a chore for her, and the way you are NOT communicationg with her probably enforces this. She obviously cannot read your mind, but she has to be reading your behavior. Have my wife here now for a couple of days - so try this - help her onto and off the toilet, help her take a shower, cook for her and make your best meals, walk close with her whenever you go out like to a mall and hold her hand and arm so she doesn't fall, and clean up after when she has diarreha. Okay. That is my life when I can have Char here and I need her here and I love her here. Happens about 12 times a year. Yea we are in our 60s, but know what that is what happens over time. She doesnt't have the young (well okay sexy tight young body...*s*) body that she did when we married in our 20s. I'm not exactly a 'catch' now either altho I'm not at all overweight still. I don't have to ask or expect her to kiss me. She just still does alot and even doing it when I LEAST expect it like when i am just talking to her. Lot's for you to learn here Cemar, but the person you absolutely need to talk to is your wife. You two are going to get older, and if you don't lay the foundation now of love and communication of what you both expect then I doubt you are going to feel at all desirably of helping her on and off the toilet or just simply getting around when you two are a few years older! Also, I honestly see you here trying to entrall the people here who respond to you instead of attempting to entrall your wife! Get to Your life Cemar and good luck to you.

Tom

Shows how much you know about habits.

Yes, for the initial period, it may not be a want, but as a habit develops, it becomes something you do because you want to do it, because doing it makes you feel good, and not doing it leaves a sense of loss. This is true for both good and bad habits.

This is why Dr. Harley takes the approach he does with increasing SF frequency; because habits become enjoyable, they become an indispensable fabric of our day. And, if those habits involve our spouse then the good feelings generated from those habits become associated with the spouse. Habit becomes desire. I want to talk to my spouse because it feels good to do so, and that associating is connected to my spouse.

It's not rocket science, it's not fate, it's not destiny.

Your idea of desire is totally screwed up, because you are simply talking about physical desire, which is such a small portion of the overall equation, that it is nearly negligible.

It's algebra, not math. It's not physical attractiveness + EN meeting = desire. It's physical attractiveness/Love Busters x EN meeting = Desire.

What?

Your physical attractiveness is reduced by your Love Buster activity. Not a single woman on this planet would submit to desire to an A-hole who treats her like crap consistently - and that algebra accrues over time. Sure, she might slip up with some bad-boy and have a 6 month dating cycle, but married to the same jerk, he will become increasingly unattractive over time.

You act like you've never had the experience of "She was beautiful, and then she started talking..."

Ever seen a beautiful woman with a guy, and go "What the he77 does she see in him? He's a troll!"

Answer; he meets emotional needs.

Meeting EN's, avoiding LBs > Phyiscal attraction/desire.

Point blank, bar none. Time tested and proven. End of conversation.

Rosy,

With all due respect, a person is either 'honest' or not. Please explain how this supposed concept is going to help Cemar, part from simple honesty, aside from the fact that the term has a chique appeal.

Tom

Radical honesty is a concept of this program, Tom, why do you question this and call it a "supposed concept"?

A LOT of people side-step RH because they are conflict avoiders. It's easier to not be honest than to be so and face the consequences, much of which are imagined as being horrible. Some people need to be told that not only is it okay to be honest, but it is actually BENEFICIAL.

RH for cemar would probably look something like: "I feel empty when you don't kiss me voluntarily."

It takes some digging to find your (general you) RH sometimes. I don't think cemar is quite there. MAYBE his wife could help him, maybe we can. I still wish he'd write that letter. "What I really mean to say is..." is something this board can help him determine.

cemar, I'm going to say this and I don't want to be a mean person.

Listen closely: SHUT UP AND DO IT! cemar, if you are this thick-headed, I wouldn't want to go to bed with you either! Clods are A TURNOFF!
JUST SHUT UP AND DO IT!

May God help us when we get to the hand-holding part...

Are you not familiar with the MB Concepts? This is a big one: Policy Of Radical Honesty.

It's really common sense ~ when has it ever been a good idea to lie to anyone, about anything? We learned that when we were in kindergarten yet so many people "forget" about it as they get older ~ and in relationships.

Oh, hi Tom! How've you been? How's Char?

Are you suggesting he hold her...


Nevermind. Who would advocate such things?

Married,

Yes, I am fully aware of radical from MB, and it just equates to me to simply honesty. And okay okay, if you love the embellishemt of 'radical', all I am saying is that it doesn't add or mean anything to me is all. It just seems to imply that there are degrees when someone new sees this in that there may be low-level honesty, honesty, and radical honesty. I.e., slertnig a cashier that he/she undercharged, self-disclosure on a job application, and self-disclosure to your spouse on all things about you are all the same to me. That is all.

Tom

Hi Ms. Bliss,

Me, am good and have been busy. Am now up to higher reps on my exercise program - part of this is just to get into better shape and part is to be in better shape by the spring. And, working part-time, but it seems like full time with the projects. Char is good and am so happy to have her here again but she did sprain her back on the bathroom today. She just got up from resting and we will watch a movie tonight. She has had back problems for as long as I have known her from her dancing days, so she will want another massage again tonight. I am just keeping my eye on her to make sure it isn't serious now. And thanks.

Tom

Ms. Bliss,

Just a last note, forgot to wish you well and hope that every thing is as well as can be for you and your family.

Tom

Oof! Back problems! I pulled some back muscles about 5 weeks ago and I'm just now feeling better (just in time for golf season, thankfully.) It took plenty of time, a few visits to the chiropractor and workouts at the gym, but I think I'm going to be okay.

Other than that, we're all good here! Thank you for asking! I hope Char is feeling better soon! (Ice her back, don't put heat on it.)

Tom, no it's not JUST about telling the truth. Radical honesty is speaking up (or being radically honest) when you normally wouldn't say anything about it. That's what MB means by "radical honesty".

Of course, telling the truth is always the best policy, but in this case, we're not talking just about not lying.

cemar, let me tell you a little story. I'm not sure you are capable of hearing this, but hopefully it helps someone.

We've been through a hellish recovery...it hasn't been easy,

The final straw was when my H overstepped MORE boundaries...and I just lost it. I went into serious withdrawal and I daydreamed about D. It had been over 2 years that we'd been dealing with his A and recovery. He couldn't seem to get his act together. He continued to ignore his EPs. I had not an ounce of love left. I am not sure why I didn't file for D right then.

My H kept plugging along...for probably about a year. I was slooooowly coming out of w/d but not fast enough for him. He was desperate to know his efforts were working.

He began badgering me to meet some of his ENs/return the love he was showing. It irritated the heck out of me. He called SH about it.

Steve's advice was that he needed to keep meeting my needs, without any badgering/directing me on meeting his. He was told to nix all LBers and meet ENs. He was told that this would "make me" fall back in love with him and then I would meet his needs for affection, conversation, etc.

It worked. Badgering me did NOT work. Telling me what to do did NOT work. Cleaning up his side of the fence DID work.
Since your W is not familiar with MB it's probably irritating her when you tell her you want her to WANT you. That would push me further away.

Hope this helps someone.

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