Oh, and I am reading out of order. To your little one about mommy and daddy? Gosh, I hope someone comes along with some helpful words for you, MJ. Bless your heart.

Andy M,

Thanks for your support. I agree: the definition of age appropriate is difficult. I told DD3.9 yesterday that mommy loves another man and not daddy. She asked a few questions, but my statement did not seem to sink in.

I appreciate your words, and said a prayer just now for your family to reconcile.

Surfer88,

Thank you too for your support of my attempt at reform. I won't name the vice. But I will say that it hurt my marriage. In any event, your encouragement is much appreciated. After my wife moved out, I thought more people would support my efforts at reconciliation. A few friends and posters on this site have been. But the number is less than I thought. That's human nature, I guess, and my Inspector Closeau-like effort at times to restore my marriage.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

MJ, I was happy to read your update. Good job on working on yourself.

As far as your daughter, at this age she probably doesn't understand because in her little mind all she knows is that she wants her mommy AND daddy. As she gets older, she may start to get it and her mom may be in for a surprise. Good for you for not hiding the truth. Kids tend to internalize things and blame it on themselves. It's important that she knows none of this is her fault.

As for the hearing, I agree. It will probably be the Judge asking your lawyer about where you guys are in settlement, etc. Judges like to move things along and have a schedule to things. They want it off their docket.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with all of this. As for your "vice", we've all sinned and no one among us is perfect. It's a process, not an event. You'll get there. Stay strong and continue to be a good dad. At least one of you is sane right now.

Last January, helpthelostdads recommended I read books about getting a good child custody deal. He said,


I ordered the book this afternoon. It should arrive later next week. Hearing from WW about her demands and disrespectful judgments got me religion on this issue. Well, that, and posters' remarks that I don't take others' advice. While I have taken some of the vets' advice, I wish I had taken more. Buying and reading this book will help repair the imbalance.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Hi MJ,
Just wanted to say that it is good to see you still posting here, and congrats on your self-improvement success! It just seems that you are more relaxed and more confident now than you were just a few months ago. I think it enables you to weather your WW's behavior much better.

Speaking of exercising, I began (what I call) a rigorous exercise program back at beginning of March. Spent quite abit of time on the Internet studying various exercises and found that alot of them require weights. Then came across a couple of sites advising how to 'construct' homemade weights - milk containers filler with water for arm curls, a briefcase full of my old textbooks for seated calf raises, and various inexpensive resistance equipment for arms and chest. Not wanting to get muscle-bound (which at my age is probably impossible...*s*) but I just feel alot better and more challenged. My son has some of his weights here, but am not going to tackle them until I get farther along in this phase. Also, if I do feel up to it I'd love to do a couple of long-distance bike-a-thons this summer for charities. We'll see.

Just stay on the course that you are - alert and proactive! You never know MJ, and as they say in sports it "ain't over til it's over". Your WW may wake up and realize what she is giving up. Even if that does not happen, you emerge a better person for it.

Tom

Tom2010 writes,


Thanks for the tip! I've been meaning to exercise more -- in half an hour plan to run for a few miles -- and watch TV less during the week. I like your idea of using water-bound milk cartons. But why use those instead of push ups? Perhaps you would say a person, especially a man, should do BOTH?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Princessmeggy writes,


How right you are, on both counts. Last month, DD3.9 drew stick figures of four people. I suspected the identities of the four, but had her tell me. "The tall one (on the left) is daddy, and the small one holding his hand is me; and that tall one (on the right) is mommy and (DD2.3) holding her hand." She explained that mommy and daddy are her favorite people in the world. I put the picture on my refrigerator. It has remained there since.

The other night, I talked with DD3.9 about the separation. She said she DID blame herself for the breakup. I couldn't believe it. She's not even four years old. She.had.zero.to.do.with.the.breakup.

princess also writes,

Thanks for restating the obvious! When I talk with some of my friends and family members, they tell that there is zero hope of recovery. I remind them of Dr. H's experience with couples and Mitch Daniels' story. They acknowledge the point but don't concede it. So reminding me that I'm doing the right thing is good to hear!


-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Hi MJ,
Interesting question, but I do both the pushups and the arm curls (with the milk containers). First is for pectorals and shoulders and the latter is for biceps and arms. What I do now is: pushups, triceps dips (backward pushups using a chair), arm curls (with the containers), one-legged calf raises (using the stairs here), seated calf raises, bycycle, vertical crunch (both for abdominals), explosive leg lunges, walking leg lunges, and hand grips (resistance) for arms, chest and shoulders. I do them every other day and takes about 45 minutes. Believe me MJ, that knockes any stress right out of me. I spent quite abit of time looking up the best exercises for men, and found that You Tube offers the best advise - all kinds of ratings and demos. The hardest think is to keep it going each time, but once I get into it I love the challenge. Take care.

Tom

Today has been emotional; hence my frequent posts. But the vets may find the following story of interest. I had a verbal confrontation this afternoon with one of my WW's chief enablers.

Five years ago, the woman sought to break up my marriage, saying I wasn't good for WW (then known as Honey). A year and a half ago, she encouraged WW to separate. (I don't know the exact nature of her beef, by the way. She has been pleasant around me). In any event, I ran into her this afternoon. I had taken my kids to an Easter egg event at the park, and I suspected she and her family might be there. On the way over to the event I told DD3.9 not to talk with the woman, as she has not been a friend to our family. About halfway through the event, I saw their family arrive, walking about 50 yards away. I avoided them. Ten minutes later, I saw her husband nearby and avoided him. But on the way to my parked car, I ran into her. Then it started.

-- "Hi (DD3.9)!" she said in an unnaturally loud voice. "Hi MJ."
I did not say anything, but DD3.9 smiled and walked toward her. Then I said the following:
-- "You knew about WW's affair with the douche-bag from the beginning and did nothing about it, right?" I said in an emotional tone.
-- Her plastic smile faded. "This happened after she moved out of your house," she said.
-- "That doesn't make it right. You attended our wedding. I stayed true to my vows. She hasn't stayed true to hers," I said, getting upset.
-- "MJ ..."
-- "You're not her friend. You're an enabler," I told her.
At this point, DD3.9 started crying and the woman sought to comfort her, bending down on her knees. "This isn't appropriate time to have this conversation."
-- I bended down on my knees. "I reached out to WW's friends and none of them helped my family. Why don't you explain your behavior to your mother [a saintly, god-fearing Christian]."
-- "I will!" she huffed.
-- The woman again sought to comfort DD3.9. I told her to stay away from my kids and walked away.

I've thought about the scene above a lot today. I also talked with a sister and a good friend about it. Our conclusion is that me standing up to and telling this woman was good. I didn't swear or touch her, I just chastised her. She needs to be held accountable for helping destroy a family and she was partly.

But we also agreed that DD3.9 should not have been put in a situation in which she cried. I should have known that. And thinking the matter over more, I suspect helpthelostdads may swing a 2x4 my way.

Bottomline: The next time I run into one of WW's enablers, I will act differently. I won't get emotional or chastise. I will say the following: "Look, I'm not going to be phoney. I'm walking down the street with my two daughters and without my wife partly because you enabled her adulterous relationship. That's all I have to say. But if you like, you can say hi and talk briefly with DD3.9.



-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful and confident

Hello MJ,
Well am catching up here somewhat, so am posting more than I have been in awhile.

Think you answered your own question MJ, except for saying anything to her about what she did. I think each of us has at least one person in the world we don't care to be around at all for whatever reason. She seems to be the kind of smug person who could care less about her role. So, chastising her, even tho it feels good, is probably not wise or effective. Think just a brief aknowledgement like a simple 'hello' and then go your way is sufficient and would will save you some grief. I know, it's easy for me to say! At some point she will have to answer to the 'Just Chastiser' anyway for the harm she caused.

Take care..
Tom

Uh-uh. Just because someone speaks to you does not mean that you have to acknowledge them. You don't owe her anything. If there is a next time, that person doesn't exist. Hindsight and all that, you've said your piece (good for you!) but she is an enemy to your family and doesn't deserve to be in the same space as your child (or you!), much less offering any kind of "comfort".

Next time, avoid such confrontations around your little one-- just walk away. She didn't need to hear that with everything else going on.

Don't disagree with confronting the enabler.

Do disagree with doing it around the kids.

But I was guilty of similar during this very emotional time period you're going through.

Don't do it anymore.

Be above the fray if you want custody. That woman can be brought in to testify against you. She'll create a story where she felt yelled at and threatened and will say you did it all in front of your daughter.

You'll be portrayed as emotionally unstable and dangerous for the kids.

You're a man. You're not allowed anger. Remember that.

princessmeggy writes,


I agree: She does not deserve to be in our space. The problem is, she is around my kids. She likely sees DD3.9 and DD2.3 every week or so, as she has her own two young kids. To DD3.9, the Enabler is a good friend. Next time, I will give my pithy spiel and walk away.

Hey MJ.

Just thought I would pass this along to you. I had a good laugh this afternoon. Got home early today and did most of my exercises. The leg lunges I do outside on the walkway here now that the weather here is dceent. While I was proceding a woman who lives here came up after parking her car and asked if I was okay. I stopped and couldn't help laughing - not at her of course, but the situation. I just told her what I was doing and she said she probably expected I was exercising, but am sure she saw me sort of lurching and stuttering down the walkway and a little unsteady (you have to do these with hands on hips so it creates balance as well). We both had a good laugh and that sort of made my day.

Tom

Tom2010,

I like your story. She must have thought you were drunk or incapacitated, right? Regardless, you strike me as a medical marvel -- a veteran doing exercises that would make Lombardi proud.

Regards,


MJ

helpthelostdads writes,


I feared that help's analysis above would come true, and part of it has already. WW wrote me an email accusing me of being erratic and irrational. She expressed several concerns: 1) I "berated" her friend. 2) I told my DD's not to pray for the Enabler's family. 3) I was late dropping off the kids. 4) Why did I lose my last job?

I plan to explain my side of the story and express regret for causing DD3.9 to cry. Of course, I would also like to accuse her of being irrational -- taking the kids away from me on the night I have them; threatening to take them away if I don't agree to her demands; the Enabler's acknowledgment that WW was and is an adulterous relationship.

What does everyone think?

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

If help is around, I'd like to hear from him. Thanks.

Three quick updates:

1. WW dislikes my lawyer for "dragging his feet." She said our case won't be settled till next year. This will cost thousands of dollars, she claims. I was happy to hear this. To me, her complaints are those of a typical WS not getting her way.

2. I talked with my lawyer. He said I do not need to attend the scheduling conference this week in my case. He added that a court won't schedule a custody hearing for another 90 to 120 days. To my ears, this too is good news.

3. I talked with a priest/spiritual adviser about my encounter with WW's friend. Like helpthelostdads, he said that talking with the friend was good, but that making my daughter cry was not. He said I need to honor the cardinal virtue of temperance: letting reason rule our emotions, especially anger. He makes a good point.

-----------------------------------------------
Me: BH, 40 (and jobless again)
Her: WW, 33
Never lived together
Married 6 years; together 10 years
2 young kids (DD3.5 and DD1.8)
Her EA: Fall '08
She moves out of our home: 10/16/09
Informally separated
D-day: 01/22/10
D-day #2: 06/28/10
Exposed to 12 of my WW's and the OM's friends and family members plus all of my immediate family members and some extended family
In Plan B since 11/15/10
Her region is a 50/50 custody area
OM stopped working with her 08/10
Wife asks lawyer for legal separation 12/10
Wife files for D: 02/10/11
Still hopeful

You�re going to have moments of weakness. If you�re confronted about the incident, own it. Say that you�re sorry, that you learned from the experience, and that you won�t ever do it again.

Own your mistakes. That will impress the court more than trying to dodge them.

Trying to portray your ex as unstable because of petty stuff won�t get you far. Petty is the norm in family court. Focus on the real issues. Do you have proof of adultery? Do you have solid proof or irresponsible behavior.

There is a very big disconnect with what works in family court and what works in the MB forums in the sense that courts don�t care about adultery, for the most part, unless you live in a state where it is a factor.

The court puts equal blame on the failure of the marriage on both parties. It then focuses on either what is in the best interests of the kids. Short of some sort of massive abuse (physical or psychological) they�re not going to say that someone is a bad parent because of little things.

So focus on you. It�s all that you can control. Whether or not your wife is happy about how long the process takes is irrelevant.

Go to every single court appearance and use it as a chance to make a good impression on the judge. It may just be a scheduling conference, but do things which stand out to the judge. Wear a suit. Look warm and calm and reasonable. Bring family to be at your side if possible. DO NOT bring any girlfriends or someone who may look like a new significant other.

You may not need to be at the scheduling conference, but every single appearance can make an impression on the judge based on intangibles. Do you have family there? Are you friendly and smiling? Do you look at your ex with hate? Do you seem approachable? Do you look like someone who would be a good father?

Put together a binder of pictures of you to submit into evidence. Show yourself as a kid with your parents, in the Boy Scouts, no a sports team (short section on your background) and then a ton of you as a father. I put together a video of the kids and I doing things together or at my house. I showed them playing happily. I showed me reading to them. I showed how comfortable they were around me. I had tons of pictures of them with me. Make that the bulk of your folder. Submit it as evidence during discovery and put it together for the judge to page through. Don�t make it horribly long (ten or so pages).

Same with the video. Make it 5 to ten minutes (that�s pushing it). Put it on DVD and put extras in there if they wish to see them (such as you playing with the kids or doing stuff for them).

Become super dad. Cook for them. Bake for them. Show that you have a home that is ready for them and meets all their needs. If you have a BIA (best interest attorney) then let them seen tons of toys at your house. Let it look like a place that kids live in and not one that is clinical and not accommodating to kids.

Put their needs first and foremost in all you do.

Forget the wife. Forget what motivates her. If she accuses you of anything, deny it unless she has proof.

Mistakes get made, but judges know that the emotions are super high in these cases.

If you play your cards right, there will be a very big reality check on your WW where she will have to face the reality that she may not get primary custody, would be lucky to get 50/50, and might even lose custody.

Document your interactions with the kids. Make all your interactions with your WW as cordial and non emotional as possible. Recognize her contacts to you as attempts to get rises out of you to portray you negatively in court.

Every single thing you do will be scrutinized. Every single outburst will be blown out of proportion. The key is not to be suckered into engaging, which they will try to do a lot.

They will try to do things to portray you as vindictive, such as bringing up your exposure as attempts to smear her. If that is the case, then simply deny that that is your intent and that you were simply trying to end the affair by bringing out of secrecy and into the open in the hopes that family and friends could pressure it to end.

The fact is that your WW will likely not wake up for a while, especially during the legal fight. She is likely not to wake up unless she sees very real consequences to her actions.

A Plan A during legal proceedings is called for, but it must be tempered with caution since so many things can be turned against you.

Anything you put into writing can be used against you, so be wary of responding to her attempts to engage. I sent a very angry email to my ex which came back to haunt me later.

So don't engage with her at all in writing unless it deals with logistical things with the kids.

Be efficient, to the point, and focused solely on logistical matters with the kids.

What State do you live in?