I think we'd all have a great time. You in?

I'm in.

How about the theme being, "As good as it gets"? I'll be U'dall and wear my "Jammies" and you can read me a "Story"?

You are so funny,

I like your take afore-mentioned..


I see it that way most of the time also. One of my favorite sayings I would quote to my kids, is "Show me a man who never made a mistake, and I will show you someone who never learned anything" Of course this was just the start of one of my lectures, as I explained about free will and pride and stubborness being the problem many times, and hard times are our best teachers on how to open our ears. I allways said if they unconsiuosly did what was right, it was a credit to thier learning, but to humble themselves and admit they made a mistake, was the measure of a man, (or mature adult person if I was talking to my DD) .



Yeah, I remember when my messed up wife was still fantasizing about "coke-head" marrying her, and she told me, "I can say one thing about you, is that your loyal" Then another time when she was trying to compliment me, and at the same time pidgeon-hole my value. "You would be good in middle management,(Lol, Coke-head was a manager, and WW fancied him quite a guy, as her "job" so to speak, was to help him smooze clients, he knew where to get the good drugs also, jeez I grew outta that before I was 20). He was somone who had authority in her eyes. It was because he supplied what she wanted. I was managing people before I was 20 in a very technical field, he had nothing on me.

Anywaysss... I replied instantly, "Dear, we are all middle management, all the way up to the top"

Again I was having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. "You can't fix stupid", thats Gods job.


Yes, and even a Pastor once said, "Some people are so spiritually minded they are no practical good" I think of it as like the saying, "keep it simple stupid", and people trying to change what it is, to fit themselves, and like WC Fields on his deathbed, looking thru the bible.. A freind came in and said,"What are you doing? You don't believe in God!". He said, "Looking for loopholes".

Another Christian freind said, "Sometimes you can trust a moral person more than a Christian unfortunalty". Funny how that works, we have so much and yet we are willing to believe we deserve more. Bending the rules of decent human conduct and hurting others. Where do we get that idea.(OK Dana Carvey from SNLs church lady)"HMMMMMMmmm, SATAN!!"

Lets do the superiority dance!

Itsa....I identified depression with anger and/or frustration turned inward, and helplessness is certainly a result. I read what Dr H said about that too. As usual he is right.

I am all for it, but might not be able to get away, I'm expecting Bono to come to me for advice, or the President to call me in on a meeting about national security at any time..

Seriuosly though, let me know when, and I will see if can make it, can't promise anything yet. What state? State of drunken revelry? Lol

No worries on the depression front. I know it well. I've battled it for most of my life. Interestingly enough, it all started when MY parents got divorced.

I don't have any feelings of hopelessness. Because of my past, I know how that starts and I've learned that when those feelings start creeping up I have to fight them. Sure, I'm not 100% at warding them off, 100% of the time. But, I definitely ain't sitting around moping about it. And please don't take this in a "holier than thou" context. I have a wonderful support group (which includes you guys!), to help me bounce ideas and feelings to keep me on a path I am proud of.

The reason I brought up anger/forgiveness/steam, is because my propensity to "move on despite all things" is partly why my stich has continued for so long. The whole time I was complaining about STBX's boundaries, I didn't hold any of mine. I cannot let myself to continue to do that. And up to this point (the last few months at least), my anger/hurt/blah blah, have been the motivation for me keeping my boundaries. But, it's coming time to switch motivators. And that, is what I've been processing.


Enough of that though.

I'll toss The Outer Banks into the hat, for the party. Or we could do like a ranch style thing out west. Like in City Slickers...

Kirby, I' glad you're in.

C.P., I actually hope we could do this one day, and I hope you can make it.

Itsa, I like North Carolina. Never been to the Outer Banks, so I'm game. The ranch, and maybe riding horses, sounds fun too. So many possibilities...

When the time is closer, we can geomap where we all are, and go from there. I'd be willing to fly across the country.

What a day!

I have been sitting on this news since 8:30 this morning, waiting for others to be told before I was allowed to share this here. My daughter, who will be 25 in a few months and has already been married for a few years, stopped by this morning before I left for work. I was really surprised to see her.

She gave me the most wonderful news! She's going to have my first grandchild!!!!!!
I must say I have had quite a mix of emotions with the news. Elated and happy to tears with her this morning. Then tears of sadness while I was on my way to work because I couldn't share that news with my husband!!!!!!! And she doesn't even want to tell him. How sad is that? I am so sad for her, for us, for him.

My dread of being a grandmother alone has saddened me today, along with excitement of holding that precious child. I had fun at one point, while waiting patiently to share the news with the world, coming up with a name for me that the baby could call me.

My dread of being a GRANDMOTHER has surfaced. I'm too young! My daughter had a five year plan, and the baby is two years early!

I seriously wished that I could have had more time to heal before this wonderful event. It reminds me of when she was married in 2008. I was sad and hurt then too, because I was in a plan B, planning the wedding with my daughter, and not being able to share all of that with my husband then either!

Plus, her wedding and the birth of our first grandchild are wonderful, happy events, and both times they have been tainted with the pain from my husband not valuing our marriage, or me.

I will do everything in my power, like I did when she was married, to suck up my pain and make this a happy time for her, and my family. It's just so hard to mask the pain when I should be overwhelmed with joy and celebrating right now. It's a mixed bag of emotions for sure.

On top of all of that, I couldn't sleep last night, so I've been running on 3 hrs of sleep all day. Purely adrenaline. I couldn't sleep last night, just from all the events of the week.

I had another man ask me out again today! This time for dinner, and he was someone that did a job on our property a few months ago. I gave him NO signals! His wife even worked with him that week!!!!!!! I was shocked and said "you're married" and he told me they split up right after that job. Oiy. Of course, I told him no. Even if I was available, I wouldn't want to go out with him anyway. I bet he had all kind of fantasies driving that separation. Geez. And she was a very nice lady too.

And, I knew my husband was go camping to our favorite spot soon, and I found out he went today. I am so sad that things are different and I'm not camping too. The weather is perfect for it here now. I love camping, canoeing, and fishing. Last time we went, I saw a bazillion fireflies. We walked hand in hand through the pitch dark woods and stayed in differences places to watch them. I am so bummed. I'm thinking about dragging someone out there with me soon, so I can do all of that again. I'm not sure if I'd go by myself...

Plus, his birthday is today, so I thought about him all day. I texted him this morning with a simple "happy birthday". He thanked me back.

There are so many new things going on in my life right now and my head is spinning.

I just told myself to relax, and be still. I can do this.

Not only am I going to do it, I hope to do it with dignity and grace.

Any girls from Florida out there wanna go camping in the next few days?

First off, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!

I understand the mixed emotions. I've seen then in my mother throughout my sitch. Remember, it's ok to have those emotions. Acknowledge them. Process them. And move along. Sure, you'd like the situation to be different. But it isn't, so make it the best YOU can.

Second, well, I just kind of said what my 'second' was. But, I'll say it again for posterity. Acknowledge. Process. Move forward.

And lastly, GET SOME SLEEP. I know how hard it is to stop the mind from running, especially when going to bed. It's actually quite prevelant during depression. I find listening to music helps me get out of my own head, and able to fall asleep. But, my dreams become more vivid. Not a bad trade off if you ask me.

G'night MJ.

G'night Itsa.

Thank you for sharing in my celebration.

yeah Go to Bed, read my response tommorow please

Yeah, life happens fast sometimes, I remember hearing i was a grandfather before I was 45 from my first son who was born when I was 19. I still had a son who was seven at home with DS9 and DD15. I wasn't ready either.

A bunch of mixed emotions are natural also, and of course WH B-day and the camping thing all in one day.. Woo-Hoo well thats a lot. Take a tylenol PM and go to bed early, you need your rest to process this, maybe work-out tommorow to exhaust yourself naturally becuase the Tylenols are sorta numbing, and hide stuff, that maybe you need to process emotionally. Listen to me lol, giving you advice on that!

Congratulations!! , your DD is giving birth. Think of all the princess stuff you can spoil her with when you see her! Our grandkids keep us young, they are like batteries to the soul. I love watchin Lion King and holding my DGD high and "Lets snuggle on the couch grannnpaaa!" Its like being a kid again.

Plus the funny stuff they say, this is gonna be great, and just so you know, you never feel ready but you allways are anyway.

It was a rather challenging week for me emotionally.

I actually tried to arrange a camping trip, but none of my girlfriends could get away with only a few days notice. So we're going to try to plan a trip in the near future.

Just as well, I spent the money on seeing my counselor instead. She was able to see me the day I called.

The last time I posted on here, I think I cried buckets of tears for two days straight. I told my counselor all I wanted to do was figure out how to let go. There were no magic words for me, only reassurance that what I was feeling was normal, and I'm still doing grief work.

I spent the past two days packing more of stbx's stuff, staying non-stop busy until I dropped, just so my mind wouldn't stop to feel my pain.

I had dinner with my daughter and talked about baby stuff, which was great. We had a lot of laughs about what to expect. That was a great distraction for me. But I'll be dayumed if I can't stop myself from wishing stbx was here sharing it all with us.

However, today I gave myself a break and went bar hopping around the river with some friends, on motorcycles for nine hours straight. We also had a drink on a friends dock and had dinner before we all came home. Good times to get me through the bad times. I have tomorrow off, so I'm happy about that.

I'm home and winding down now, and find myself missing my husband terribly, like I do every single day. I hope that goes away soon.

Like I said in my first post time, and don't be afraid to cry when you feel like it. If you are like me at some point you grab your bootstraps and pull yourself out of it, but its honest emotional realease.

Just keep doin what your doin, This too will pass, and your doing great. One day you will wake up and realize you have taken a step forward in some way, and that will continue as time goes by, the pain will subside, and it won't come back with such intensity next time, untill it is in the past almost allways and completly.

All sounds pretty normal. you will be just fine, I know it.

MJ, I've been having a hard time figuring out what to say, because my experience has been so different from yours. I was sad because my marriage ended, and I never planned to live this life. I was sad because my marriage was so incredibly awful and because my husband treated me so badly.

But, I absolutely do NOT miss my husband. I miss him the way I miss a migraine when it's over. I only feel relief that I do not have to experience either the highs or lows of life without him by my side.

However, when you said that you cried for two days straight, I finally understood. I had a similar grief response when I had two miscarriages in quick succession back in the early '90s.

Back then, I eventually decided that grief was a process that I had to get through. It was hard work dragging myself through that valley and over to the other side.

What helped was that I let myself cry any time I needed to. I journaled about my feelings. I prayed. I told God that it was NOT okay with me that my babies died. It's almost like my focus was on using up all of the grief so that I could get over to acceptance.

I don't know if my experiences will help you at all. It's certainly different because your husband is still alive. But, like CP said, cry when you need to. Know that it will take time to get past this. Try to spend some time each day focusing on the good things in your life as well as working through your grief. It will get better.

Kirby,

You expressed it better than I could. TY.

It was important to me that my Mom, who was married to an impossible man to deal with, who at the age of 16 lost her Mom, and became the mom figure in her family of 4 siblings, who also lost her brothers and cousins, all who she loved, taught me that.

My mom is an exceptionally strong women, without being cruel or crude to anyone, and serving people all her life. Now in her 80s, she still is healthy emotionally, and does well. Good sense of humor also. You wouldn't know it to look at her, but that little women with the sweet attitude and all the things that expect in femininity, afraid of bugs and snakes and mice, didn't know how cars worked, had more strength than many of the men I have seen in life.

Of course what would I know, from what people go through? I trust that what God brings them through, I have little to do with it, except point the people to Him and His nature. Many endure and grow and cannot understand and tell you why. Some things are beyond our understanding at the time, but deep in our hearts and minds, crying out is part of learning, and the experience of life, where our spirits are lifted, even after the worse storms.

From where I sit Kirb, I see all the people here as a work in progress, and the very fact that they are here is positive alone. They admit they have needs, and are searching on how to get them met, fairly and completely as they should be.

I think MJ is gonna be better than great, unmeasurable by many standards, because I feel it in her words and heart, and even in her pain. The same goes with you Kirby.

Mom used to say, "Sometimes I just need to go and have a good cry in my pillow" In Guy lauguage, as I got older, I loved the saying, "Big boys don't cry, but Men do."

I cry when I watch "Saving Private Ryan" and remember my Gramps telling storys of WW1 in france, when he was a Machine gun tender and got shot through his thighs. He was a very emotional man, and I wondered at how this man could be so sweet, and yet be willing to die to protect what he beleived in. He wore his uniform with pride, and marched in every Veterans Day parade, and allways told me, "Never argue with a crazy man" Lol, It took some time for me to realize that he meant arguing was crazy to begin with, as I saw everybody was a little crazy at times.

God help me if I don't cry at times, sometimes things are overwhelming emotionally. I allways told my boys not to be fooled into thinking men are not emotional also, because they are, and that very emotion we have strengthens us to protect those we love. So cry if you need to, its a very important emotional outlet, and leads to understanding.

Ok, went on longer than I wanted to. TTYL guys hope your feeling better MJ and Kirb .

Thanks C.P. and Kirby.

I am definitely feeling a ton of losses and grief this week. Crying for two days straight made me feel like I haven't moved along at all, so it was good to hear my counselor tell me I am still in a normal grieving stage at this point. Yes, Kirby, the loss of your unborn children was a huge loss and you had no control over it. That's how I feel.

She also told me my depression is so bad because I am angry at stbx, and am not expressing the anger in any way. I don't know what to do with that. The only way I feel like expressing my anger is plaster our life story on his fb wall, where all his "compassionate" friends, who probably think he's on some great life journey with strength and integrity for following his heart, could get the other side of the story. But even that would come back to bite me probably. I'd probably be seen as the unstable, vengeful stbx he's probably making me out to be to his so called friends. That would give his twisted mind more justification for leaving. All of my anger wants to hurt stbx with it, that's why I don't allow myself to go there. I'm trying not to stoop as low as he is.

I've learned that stbx posted pics during his camping trip on fb, but didn't share the news of his granfatherhood to the world. So he's not sharing in his daughter's happiness, or proud of it, it seems. My speculation. He probably doesn't want to be seen as a grandfather. That might mess it up for him when he attends some girl's "30 something birthday party" this weekend.

The same day he received the invitation to that party, he e-mailed me, pushing the divorce. That ticked me off too because he knew our dog was sick (who has followed me around for about 15 years now) and it was possible that I'd have to put him to sleep that day. God, he is such a _______(fill in the blank).

But every single time I start allowing myself to feel that anger, I just feel like there's no point. No one suffers from it but me, so why expend the energy. That's my cycle right now. I just feel so stuck.

C.P., I was touched that you have such high hopes for my recovery. I hope I prove you right. It might take me longer than I'd like....But I'd like to be able to one day say you were right.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and support.

I think that diagnosis is right on, and I'm right there with ya, don't let his sickness twist you to stoop to his level, thats how we lose the real fight.


OMG, now that is so pathetic.. Still running away from reality. Well thats not your fault.


Yeah thats right, but as you start to see that the rejection of you was his mistake, and that you are not the evil witch he is claiming you are, and are worth more than he will ever know now, you will become better. His crap will hurt less, and will take its place in with the others who ultimately blame others for all thier unhappiness.

I am sure you were not perfect, but thats not the point, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and he has stuck his head in the sand. he wouldn't know love if it fell out of the sky, landed on his face, and started to wiggle.

This has to do with his choice to reject you, because he was not enough of a Man to keep his commitments, even at a challange to his Ego.

I'm sorry but the 30 something party and pushing the divorce issue is certainly telling about his state of mind. You can accually feel sorry for him IMO, and maybe even laugh through the pain. But I imagine you are the understanding and supportive type, and it will take time for that to heal.

I am reminded to to "hate the sin, not the sinner" and that "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord". Its OK that you get mad at what he is representing, and be angry at that, and that is who he is to you, because of his actions. He is what he is acting like, thats what we all are, all day, every day. God will wreak his vengence on WH actions, he allways does. You will see it in the future, as WH becomes more distant and smaller, in your heart and mind.

Hang in there MJ, sounds like your counselor is pretty good.

Thank you for affirming what my logical side was thinking. In the end, he might blow his own cover anyway without my help. There are others besides me who see right through him. My counselor is one of them. She counseled us both, so she knows.....




You know what I think? I think he realizes that he'll always have a strained relationship with anyone close to the baby, because we KNOW his cruelty and immaturity. So yeah, he's going to run from that. He's going to run from anyone who may not approve of his actions. Easier that way. It's his way of finding peace for himself. I believe that with all of my heart.




I have had some thoughts along these lines already, but stbx was SO good at blaming me, that I still have a hard time not taking blame for more than my share. And when you're trying to grow from your mistakes, it gets muddled when you don't know exactly what is and isn't your fault. I do hope time will reveal and heal.



That made me lol, which was not an easy thing to do for me today. On top of still being depressed and grieving today, I am sick with a head cold, and a fever. So, I appreciate that. Even though I do feel a bit guilty for laughing at his expense.




I know integrity is about keeping committments, etc. But to stbx....that's barbaric/tired/abusive thinking.



Agree with all of it.



If stbx heard that, he's say that we were old thinking/barbaric, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I like the sound of "WH becomes more distant and smaller, in your heart and mind". That sounds peaceful....and sad at the same time.



I think so. I wished I could see her more. She believes in God, and the bible. She offers both Christian and secular counseling. It was wierd, but the last time I went to see her, I asked her handle that appt in a secular fashion. I needed to hear things that didn't involve a God I couldn't see or feel at the time. Yeah, last week was rough.



Thanks C.P. I'm still hanging on......

You know, I almost felt like going back and deleting my thoughts about what stbx thinks. I have no idea what is actually running through his head about anything, including the baby.

All I know is that I know that my stbx's actions have hurt more people than just me, and I don't want our grandchild to be another one in the line. That baby probably won't even know him. His loss. I wonder if he even cares.

{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}{MJ}

Those are all individual hugs btw.

I know completely what you're feeling with the FB posting of what is really important. 2 weekends ago, STBXW went with DS and I to horse riding lessons. She was snapping all kinds of pictures. Not one of them have made it to FB yet. But, like 30 pictures and videos of nights out on the town have made it. All I have to say is, that I'm glad that I'M not the one running from my family...

And now, I would like to share a part of my favorite poem. It's from the Desiderata, by Max Ehrmann, and the only thing I think I can offer right now.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees & the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors & aspirations
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be careful.
Strive to be happy.


Keep on truckin' MJ. You've endured plenty. God is merely asking you to continue on, so that He may walk with you.