I take that back. I wanted to love him.

It's the contact. It's gotta be.

NSZ is right. I will never heal until he's out of my life.

Have to make that happen.

Really going to soak in a bath now.

How about "Freudian shoot" then...Ok last joke I make at attempt at levity to this sad time..I promise MJ.

But the sound of someone hitting the floor when they find the door locked mixed with the puddle of pee they leave when they hear the "Shu-Shoomp" of a 12 Ga. pump in the middle of the night night, well that might add a smell to the "sound of freedom".

Hope you and your boy practice on a range with an instructor and wear safety gear. I grew up with guns repaired them for friends but haven't owned them for years at my wifes request. They made her feel scared, yeah get that but drugs and dangerous behavior doesn't?.

Its time to get another one I think, after all, thay are tools for dispatching wild animals and there are unfortunatly still some of those around.

Ah I get this MJ, totally. My Dad acted like a child and I wanted to have a normal relationship, and waited for kindness from him also. I loved him, by action, and respected him, because God, my family and traditional manhood of a boy insisted that I do. But I could not wait to get away from him.

Now I am getting away from another toxic relationship that felt a lot like the one I had with my Dad. A Crazy person who would not consider other feelings unless they lined up with thier plans. Its not that the plans presented were bad ones. It was the narcissism and implementation with the complete lack of considiration that turned everything into confusion. He was allways unhappy and on the verge of violence, and we all felt it too. I wish he listened to Moms pleas to get counselling, but instead I will not make that mistake. I do.

Get a therapist, its good thing if you find the right one you have an objective friend. If they are board certified you can present your problems and they will help you work things out professionally.

It hard when you have a heart that seeks recovery, and you get rejected, after you have given everything you had, and you can think its you, when its not. You need help to see what was yours, and see what was thiers, and pick up the peices.

Yeah I know your DS..


This I relate to also. Funny how I saw it but didn't recognize how things deterorated over the years, when it came to her friends.

When we were first together, and after DD was born, and after the cancer surgery was successful. There were no more "reasons" for her to be miserable and/or escape into drinking, and she blamed it on being a "Backslidin Christian who had a child out of wedlock". So we went to the justice of the peace and got married. It wasn't till I left her 8 months later she hooked up with strait women in the church.

Two years later...and I came back for another chance..

When I moved to the state her Church moved to in order to get her away from her Alch sister and because she said, "I will do better around the Body and my Pastor", I had hopes too that God would help heal her beyond her denial. She had even gave a speech before over 1,000 people at a convention, coming clean about her drinking, it seemed this was the right move also, and she had plenty of healthy people, and recovered also, to be around.

Over the years she lost closness with many of the women there, it was never revealed why, because they and thier husbands were my friends also, it concerned me. When she was asked by a Pastor friend of ours who ran a recovery program to write a paper for him for his book, she politely refused. This was after we had been here for years and struggles.

Eventually she started hanging around with a "EX- Crack addict", and she is the influence that brought her back into a mindset built around manipulation and control, and selfishness. I never trusted this girl because I could read her like a book, and she never looked you in the eyes. Jittery and nervous. allways talking. We were warned about her, by someone who took her in and watched her child for years when she would go out and binge, and I told W I didn't like them together, but the bitterness and self pity they had in common was the draw that pulled them together.

My wife would constantly plead that the problem was with people who didn't forgive, but I said you can't forgive if there is no repentance or demonstrated change. W would say God forgives the instant you ask for it. I said I am sorry God can do that, people don't and can't, and probably shouldn't as much as they do. It take time and proven performance to build trust.

Later on as the drama unfolded I found out how many people thought she was a little nuts, and saw how she played out.."Gods Grace as a lisense to sin". Of course this was when she really got screwed up on the drugs, and more foggy and self-righteous. She lost her place in the church and any respect she had with the people that saw thorough her, and I did also in many ways, because I chased after her to help her in my fear.

But people are not fooled forever, and your actions will be seen by your DS, and everyone who values truth and consequences. I heard something said on a movie about what love is. Its "giving love to someone else out of our own abundance, not expecting any return". This lines up exactly to how I recieve from God and my expectations. When I let someone in who is counterfiet, or has become that, it is not God who has stopped loving me and hurting my capacity, it is them. Nowhere is it more painful than with someone you give your life, and your soul to, as in marriage.

When someone breaks these vows to God leans upon thier own understanding with, "The taker", in full control of the understanding of love, they are bound to head down a road to destruction. The feelings they are looking for beyond the marriage relationship, whether realistic or not, stops being love when it all about them.

Right or wrong, stupid or smart, yours or thiers, every decision has emotion attached to it somehow. The two must be agreed and be willing to be honest with dealing with each other that both parties emotions are valid, even if they don't understand or agree with them. Its the Honesty that seems to be the biggest problem, along with the openess, possibly because people don't want to give everything away, and want to hide in thier darkness of selfishness, pride, and pain.

I believe that in marriage, that you become one, and everything is on the table with no secrets. To your spouse you are to be an open book you trust and respect, and you earn that trust also over time.

I don't know why I went on so much, I just meant to encourage you because you were so down earlier, and assure you the truth will be revealed in the end, and the tears you have lost over this are not in vain. Myself from being thought of as, "The guy who just doesn't seem to be able to keep his wife happy and is allways struggling, and she is such a Godly woman", to when it all came out when she relapsed, and she showed her true hearts intentions and her problems with security and behavior.

Many saw the truth, including my children, and are they have been inocualted from ever having it happen to them. My 14 year old said, when I was living day to day in the hieght of her addiction when she lived away with coke-head, "Its OK dad, it like being bitten by a snake and developing anti bodies" He also said aroud that time.."This is like being over the heat for our family and poisons being boiled away, No bleach or whitewash, it will weaken the fabric"

Yeah I cry when I realize that at one time she was partly responsible for that kind of insite because of her investment. But life goes on and we have to stay strong and real.

You hang in there MJ

C.P., thank you so much for the support.

I took a tylenol pm before I jumped in to soak in that long hot bath, and was falling asleep before I even made it out of the tub.

At any rate, I'm at work and can't take the time to respond, other than to say your stories do help me, and thank you for that.

I'll be back later.

OK just keep me honest, I do carry on..

{{{MJ}}}

I'm catching up, and man you had a rough week. Sorry I'm late to the party. I was in "the dumps" the past few days, and kind of in "hiding". Well, except for Wed night when STBX took DS to the movies and I went out with some friends.

First off, beers and speedwagon...good idear! Wish we could make that happen.

Second, I totally feel you on the "access to the house" thing. If it weren't for that, STBX would've been kicked out LONG ago. I know it doesn't seem like much, but be thankful you don't have to continue to provide shelter to someone who...well, you know.

And lastly, the feelings you still have for him...I'll agree the contact is what is triggering them. This is why I was in the dumps this week. I witnessed STBX get used again by her last POSOM, at the beginning of the week. It's amazingly ironic at times. I actually started to feel sorry for her, and on some level, wished I could help her with the pain. But, I battled through it, and reminded myself that I don't want to deal with her weakness anymore. And that's just it. While I do not want to be single (still want my family), and do not want to watch DS go through this. After all of this, and everything still going on (or lack thereof), I can say that I want to be with her even less than those things. And the contact definitely doesn't help...

This too shall pass. I will say though, embrace the love that you have. But, the time to act on that love with kindness and giving has passed. You know that. It's time to use the other side of love; the side which allows us to watch those we love learn the outcomes of thier choices. At least, that's how I try and get through the days.

And no worries. I'll get over my funk soon, and have some of my usual sarcasm to toss to ya.

O.k, going to see if I can catch up now.

I've been wanting to respond to C.P. and Itsa, but I didn't either have the time, energy, and mostly words. I've been processing.......

Nothing dramatic happended over the weekend, thank God. Only the flipflops of my emotions over the last several days. I chalk that up to contact with stbx over the separtion of the contents of the house issue, and his coming by on Sunday, and picking up the stuff I sorted out for him. Plus, his birthday is tomorrow and I've been thinking about him.

I didn't want to burden anyone with staying at the house while he was here to inventory and make a list. Anyone who is close to me, is not all that close to him, so it would have been an awkward situation. However, I did watch the house from down the street for awhile while he was here to make sure he wasn't bringing in a moving truck, or anything.

After awhile, I realized watching him didn't matter to me anymore, so I met up with a group of friends for dinner. The place we went to was on the water with a live band, and somewhere I've never been before, so it was all good.

Now it's confession time. One of my friends called the "fun distraction" guy I mentioned awhile back once I arrived, to let him know I was there and asked him to come. He arrived at the restaurant from across town in about 30 minutes. I enjoyed the distraction. We laughed, talked, and even had a slow dance. I didn't think about my stbx until the next day, except for the few questions fun guy asked me about how that was going. That added to my flipflopping emotions this last week.

Men seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately. Just today, out of the blue, an ex-member of our sailing club sent me an e-mail through work asking if we could have lunch soon. Also, this past weekend while helping at our club, one of our members sat down beside me and told me he heard about my upcoming divorce and gave his condolences. Then he asked me what my goals were now. I told him my dreams were the same as they'd always been, but jokingly told him I had added sailing to the southern cross on my list. He's been to the southern cross. He told me he'd take me. We changed the subject after that, but in my heart I wanted to run away and go.

Yep, wishing I could run away. Only I'd still be there, anywhere I go, with this broken heart.

And I still cannot bring myself to file the divorce, to aid in "moving on". I need to master "letting go". My biggest problem is WANTING to let go.

Now that all that is out, I'll try to come back later and respond to C.P. and Itsa. And btw...thanks again for the encouragement and kindness.

I realize I'm a bit late in responding to this, but I'd still like to.



Yeah. I have to admit it hurts when I hear stuff like that.

I would venture to guess, based on my stbx's prior comments, that he doesn't believe in "punishment for sin", from God/or the Universe, or whatever he believes in these days.

So, I would also venture to guess that he would believe that he has God's grace, and "sinning" would be no big deal....even barbaric for doing what makes you feel good. He pretty much plays by his own rules, regardless of who gets hurts, based on prior comments and behavior. I think he once told me that "we" as humans, are God....or something like that. That was something he picked up while learning about the "new age" religion/beliefs.

In fact, Wiki defines New Age as "a spirituality without borders or confining dogmas".

Personally, I think it's all just a search for justifying and relationalizing his selfish and addictive behaviors.

What "dogma"/belief did your wife practice C.P.?

MJ,

Process. You know CP and I wouldn't think ill of you for doing that instead of responding. Matter of fact, I'll bet we both would rather you process.

The 'wanting' to let go. Yes. I am having a hard time with that. As I told my mother the other day, my anger is withering. And what seemed to be my motivation with it. I've actually been discussing with myself about how I know I'll forgive her; but how I can't start that just yet. I feel like I won't have any 'steam' if I start to just accept it, and "get over it".

And you sail!?!? That's been on my list for a long time! My Aunt and Uncle just spent 18 months sailing from San Fran to Maine a few years ago. I'm not sure where there charting for next, but definitely LOVE being on his boat when we go up to Maine every year.

Anywho, glad to see you are...processing. As you know, we're always around. Just a little late sometimes.

{{{Itsa}}}



Ouch. I can't imagine it would be any fun watching all of that, because you do care for her. I'm sorry to hear you had a bad week last week as well.



I understand. It's like watching someone you love self destruct, and not just them but the whole family, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Dr. Harley described depression as a "helpless" feeling. I feel that way about my situation when I think about stbx, and it's worse when there is contact. So....I feel for you being in the house with her. That "funk" could be depression. Did you read what Harley said on PDC's thread about depression being caused by a feeling of helplessness?



How are you doing this week? Going forward, I'll look for the sarcasm as a barometer of your emotional state.



Actually now that I think about it, THIS should have been the first thing I responded to today!

Other married members of this board have met up over the years, as couples. Why not all of us as singles? Howzabout when we make it to the other side/divorced forum, we plan a beer/speedwagon/other awesome music/is this what being single feels like/inject some reality into the MB fantasy/stbx who? party!!! What do you think?

Fundamental "Born Again", Christianity. The problem was in the denial that as we are humans and falible, we still must be disciplined, to examine ourselves, our hearts, and intentions, and ACT accordingly. Lest we be born, again, (whoops), again, (what happened?), again, (Who did that?), again,(The devil made me do it and I have no control over me), again, (Ok, who can I blame of God wants me to have everything I desire, and the world didn't change to my emotional satisfaction)....until we no longer listen to God, because he wont change the world to our reality.

But , you are having a life, and here I am addicted to MB, and waiting for communication from you to get my human validation. What is really funny is, that I forgot all the profound and wise things I said a couple of days ago, that you were going to respond to. That is in its own way healing to me, hearing you went out and had some contact, although of course you must be caustous of the possiblity of a "rebound" relationship built on the pain of the last one. That is what my last one was with my W at the start.

Did you ever see "The 40 year old virgin"?. There is a seen where Paul Rudd was getting over his last GF, and passionatly was sexually attacking a new GF, as both of them were telling each other how they hated thier past mates. It was a blatent example of rebound and the effects of past rejection. Made me LMAO. You gotta see it, he was so depressed and suicidal, transferring it all on the next GF.

Of course we live and learn, and we will naturally take some of our lessons into the next relationship, and seek to repair the places we were hurt by the last one. We want to be sure that we don't expect more than is fair, and our past does not dictate our future either. This can take time to understand, and accept about ourselves, that we are damaged goods. In short, you must have a complete inventory of your needs, and a plan to have them met, before you bring someone in on the deal. The ENQ and personal history Questionare on this site will be valuable tools in any relationship that wants to galvanize itself form future heartache.

But that allready being said and understood, it is great you have seen there is a future at some point, when you are ready. I know there is for me also, but I am not looking for anybody to love nor do I feel the need to get that close yet. This site and my relationships with God, friends, and family is the right one for me, and I want some things only I can get for myself anyways. I allways valued myself more when others loved me, and I still need to figure that one out. When I have it to give, I will share it. I think thats how it works.

Looks like a good name for the event to me.

Yeppers

And I wonder why I am sometime called a "Party pooper" , I am so damn causious and withdrawn. Well maybe if we talk about sailing...

Remembering "What about Bob" and him telling everybody that he sails now...

Seriously though I am in my man-cave, and have yet to get to the place where I would be decent company yet, still lots of work to do. For those who are ready though it could be like group therapy.

What would be the theme though? Don' ask or tell? lol

That sounds like fun. I've done meet-ups before with other moms I've met over the internet. We always had a great time.

Lol...

I was raised into the "born again Christianity" belief as well. I think "grace" can be used by some as a license to hurt for sure. Personally, as I've said before, I just wished people were decent, regardless of religious beliefs. But then even the word "decent" is subjective and open to interpretation.



Lol C.P.! Just so you know....even when I'm not responding, and giving you a fix , I do think about what you guys say on here quite often. So...if you ever need a fix, I COULD be contemplating and processing prior profound words from you, thus the reason I'm away from the computer.




I know, and I know why it's dangerous. When fun distraction guy asked me how it was going with the stbx and divorce, I was as honest as I could be in a few short sentences. When I mentioned him awhile back, I told him I wasn't ready to date, and let him know this past weekend that I still wasn't. Since he's been through the same thing, he gets it. He has encouraged me to take my time.




Hahaha....yes, I saw that one. I should watch again so I can remind myself what that would look like.



Actually, I am trying to not to seek repair in my next relationship. I'm seeking that now, with God, and letting others help guide me along the way. However, I do know that the subconscience mind is a powerful thing, so I will need to examine my motives for any future relationships.



Should make for interesting conversation while dating.



I think the majority of the population has been damaged/hurt in some way. I believe it's how you come back from that hurt that matters. Some repairs are better than new. I don't see myself as damaged goods. I see myself as someone who is better than I was before.



I have been working on that very thing, and that's good advice.



Yeah. There was a time when I valued myself less, because my stbx didn't value me. Thankfully, I do value myself more now. Heck, even he gave me a long list of my valueable attributes as he was packing his bag when he left months ago.

I think it's an innate desire to feel loved by others, and nothing to feel ashamed or bad about. I believe that God shows his love through other people. It's just that when I'm not feeling the love I need elsewhere, I've learned that God is where I need to go to feel up with it. And even when I'm not feeling it, I still give love because it's always returned back to me. Sometimes it's returned by the person I'm giving it to, and sometimes I just feel more loving because I was giving love.

Thanks Itsa. C.P. says he agrees. However, I made sure to reply to him first.



Yeah, I sometimes envy those who can hang onto the anger to push them forward. Anger isn't somewhere I can go for longer than a brief amount of time anymore. Maybe that's why I have no steam to file for divorce, when anyone else may have wanted to file way before me.




I'm learning to sail. I've been sailing quite a few times now, but I couldn't sail a boat on my own just yet. That is a goal of mine though. I envy your aunt and uncle. I want to sail off somewhere and explore the world for awhile. It use to be a dream of mine and my husbands, but I still want to do it.

I work at a sailing club, so there's plenty of opportunity to meet my goal.



Thanks.

When the time comes, we may need to shorten the name a bit.

The only way to get better at it is to practice. So, when we plan this event for real (we are aren't we? I will drag you there. We can talk about sailing.



No. This is the theme....

beer/speedwagon/other awesome music/is this what being single feels like/inject some reality into the MB fantasy/stbx who? party.

Casual attire preferred.