When i first started MB (in 2007) my wife and I were in a dire situation. No real infedelitiy, but DEF on a slippery slope. I had tried to persuade my wife to adapt to the concepts here. She shrugged them off for a few years becasue they were written by a "man" and since i was a man .. anything that was written by one in her mind wouldn't help her. She told me "Maybe YOU need to go to some counselling to figure this out!" Basicly telling me the condition of our marriage was my fault. So I did...

I got us an appointment ... but I requested (Because the counsellor suggested it) for my wife to come along. WHile in there ... it turned into a he said, she said dispute. The Counsellor sat and asked very few questions becasue as soon as she asked one my wife had a life story to tell around the particular question. My wife absorbed the entire session on her alone and then we had to make another appointment.

We did this 4 times ... the first time was the both of us .. 2nd time was me alone. The 3rd time was her alone ... and the 4th time was us together again. After the first 3 times .. each and EVERY time we came away from it .. we felt WORSE! WHy? Becasue all it did was rehash .. and help us relive the horrible moments that brought us to where we were! My wife left in tears every time... we would discuss the fact that it didnt seem like it was helping at all since we felt horrible each time. AFter the 3rd session, (my wifes alone session) my wife said "This is getting expensive and its not helping" So then i brought up the marriage builders again and said "YOu know .. we can save ourselves ALOT of hastle, heart ache, and money by using the FREE information that has helped MILLIONS of married couples turn their marriages around. This time she had a different opinion after realizing counselling was not as productive as she had first anticipated. I had even gotten a female counsellor so my wife could relate to her better. By this time .. it was 2010. I had already printed off information from my previous attempts to convince her that MB was the way to go and dug it all out again. (had an entire binder full of article print outs .. and work sheets etc from this site) I brought out the POJA print out .. and my wife FINALLY looked at it and thought "wow ... thats a double edged sword. I dont really agree with it, however I am willing to give it a try since it implies you have to stop doing things I dont agree with too!" and my reply was "Great! I have one of the book here too we can start on (his needs her needs) after reading some articles together.

AFter a few weeks of doing the work sheets, reading the articles, and reading the book together in the evenings to gain better understanding of marriage builders. My wife realized something .. she was falling back in love with me again. After we read HNHN she wanted MORE! SHe could finally see that i was doing the right things for quite some time. We then realized we had a 4th session with the counsellor schedualed (the together session) and went to it holding hands ... kissing and snuggling in the waiting room. When we got into the "talking room" and the counsellor looked at us and smiled! She said "wow you guys seem to have a totally different attitude towards eachother. Whats different now as opposed to 2 weeks ago?" Our reply, after looking each other in the eye, was "marriage builders" She then gave us a puzzled look and said " I have heard of that before!" and the rest of our session was very pleasant! We didnt need to go back .. and have since ordered all the books and done all the work sheets .. and our marriage is happier than it has ever been (16 years now my wife and i been together and im 32).

SO you see ... Feelings follow actions and love is a verb and requires action! It takes a while of getting used to and its not a change that happens over night but when your BOTH doing your best to eliminate love busters and meet emotional needs it happnes alot faster than you realize.

I guess you can say going to counselling helped. IT helped us realize it was a waste of money and that MB was the way to go becasue it triggered the bad emotional feelings each and every time we went in to "rehash the past" whereas MB is about moving forward and building a new foundation and NOT dwelling on the past.

You guys are coming along faster than my wife and I and for that I am a bit jealous but its a good thing! At least your both willing to take the step now! One day at a time following the plan here ... and before ya know it you guys will be back into puppy love again. I guarentee it!

p.s. Sorry for my long winded post ... i tend to get that way.

So the night started out rough, my husband had mentioned want to cuddle on the couch as I was just sending a text to a friend saying that my husband and I couldn't go to watch our friends band play this Friday because we were just going to spend some time together that night. He got really angry that I didn't jump up and snuggle immediately. So I told him I was sorry and that I was sending the text and if he could ask for cuddle time as soon as I get the baby down (a lot of times it's hard to relax or focus until she is down for sleep). I feel like my husband tends to be a roller coaster of emotions and if I don't change right there and then he gets mad at me and doesn't tell me most of the time. I definitely let him know that he needs to communicate right then and there so I know there is a problem. Usually I see this horrible emotion on his face and he says nothing is wrong until the 5th time I ask can you please tell me whats bothering you. Finally he agreed to do that last night so there was some breakthrough.
After our rough patch I read some more of the books and we cuddled and had wine on the couch. Played games and watched some TV. Good end to the night.
I'm reaching out to you all because I don't know what to do if he outburst again. It's such a pattern:

He got really upset when he made me a coffee and put a cute note on it and I didn't notice it right away. I looked at him and said whats wrong and he finally told me. I apologized and I can honestly said I didn't see it.

Thursday night he set up a long awaited girl night with my friends. I loved it and ended up getting too drunk (this hasn't happened in about 2 years) To make a long story short my husband was definitely expecting sex and was sooo disappointed that I was sooo drunk that I was sick. He definitely punished me in the morning and was pretty mean. He later apologized.

On Saturday morning I asked if it was ok to meet my girlfriend at starbucks for an hour for coffee (we've met each other once a month over the past six years because its hard to see each other because of family or her work). We were going to take a brisk run but ended up doing coffee for an hour, hour and a half tops.
When I got home my husband had this terrible look again and he didn't relate anything until again I asked him three times what was the matter. This was the fiasco of the underwear affair. He told me that it was weird that I changed my underwear to go meet her. I didn't blow up the first time he asked about an affair, but this time I blew up because I was sooo disgusted. I told him to call our friend or starbucks to get things straight. It was an ugly morning.

On another day I asked if I could go running and he said sure.
Again he stewed for an hour or two after I got home and released.
Yes I am getting the point, screw my running for now.

So I guess I feel like we are making efforts and I'm trying to show some more affection but if I'm not 100% perfect for the day it is lost in his eyes. I told him this as well. I'm so scared right now because we are both trying but I feel like his expectations of me are so immediate and really its a process. He always threatens me with do you know how serious this is. "yes I do" I have learned this week that I will put off my runs and anything else he wants so long as he communicates so I know.

My husband stews on everything and won't tell me!! Help He wants everything to be fixed overnight. Advice please!!

In his defense he said he will fix the sarcasm and try not to lecture me. I've told him over and over to communicate the emotions he keeps to himself. Last night he promised not to let things get to that point.

Last night and this morning were great. I seriously feel so depressed and emotional right now. I really feel like I'm emotionally a mess. I just let my baby scream for 20 minutes and told my kids to play upstairs because I just needed to breathe. Now I feel guilty.

Grace,

If you look at my sig, you'll see that I had a gaggle of children in a short period of time. I gave birth to three kids between 2001 and 2004. Yeah, check out the 'down' time between hormonal surges...none! I had no drive at all, and in fact wanted to spork my H's eyeballs out and strap a rabid raccoon onto his stomach and two bags under his chin--a feed bucket and a puke bag--and find out how SEXY he felt in that condition. lol.

It passes, and eventually I got my drive back. I asked my husband one day, "Hm, I have my drive back, reckon why that is?" (I was totally trying to lead him into admitting that he'd been a neglectful turd before and his efforts toward not doing that were paying off, but surprise!...)

He said, with some trepidation, "Because you love me again?"

Talk about a smack in the face! None of my withholding of sex was about lack of love for him. I was an irritable, neglected, frustrated wife with babies in school, on top of counters, at the breast and within belly, and sex meant NOTHING to me except MORE WORK and babies! But it meant love to him. He tried to tell me, but I saw it as another thing I had to do, and I didn't want more work. I was touched out. I wanted him to go away if all he was going to do was touch me.

If you two can get through these crazy days...I wasn't right in the sex drive for 18 months after the last child...you CAN show him love in this way even if you're not 'up' for it, so long as he knows your natural drive is temporarily out of your control and will right itself eventually, and if it doesn't, you WILL do something about it. This is an easy fix. Boff your husband, and Hill, feel the love of gracious sex given to you.

Yes, your H needs to calm down and not blow these things out of proportion. Hopefully he sees that his reactions are compounding matters.

But let's talk about you since you cannot control him.

1.) When he is "stewing" about things and then finally tells you what is bothering him, are you calm when he does this or does your reaction meet his?

2.) If he is truly having an AO it's probably best if you tell him you need to finish the convo later, when he is able to calm down and then remove yourself from him.

Grace,

You can avoid the aftermath blow-ups by talking to him first. "I thought I'd go run for 2 1/2 hours this morning, does that work for you?" If yes, go. If no, don't. If yes and he blows up later, that's his foul.

If he asks about your clothing, answer him. With truth, even if it's yucky. "They were damp, dear, from normal vaginal discharge. I put on dry ones."

Offer to send him text photos of where you are and who you are with.

Tgrace, I want you, for a moment, to read over Disrespectful Judgments;


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html

What you two likely have to work on, is avoiding Disrespectful Judgments (DJ) when you communicate your feelings with each other.

The oft-used strategy here is to use "I" statements (which feels strange at first);

"I love it when you _______."

"I would love it if you would _______."

"I feel _______ when you ________."

The next thing, is to learn to listen. Don't offer your opinion or justify a behavior your spouse says hurts or offends them. LISTEN to them. Whatever your opinion is, it does not invalidate the way your spouse feels about the behavior.

It's outlined here;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8507_fft.html

Most of us know this. We know it irritates the heck out of us when someone does it to us, but somehow simply forget how it feels when we level it at our spouse.

We have a choice in who we are. If we want to be happy people in a romantic, loving marriage, then we have the choice to behave that way.

No, it won't be overnight. It can take years to develop all of these habits. But that is just like any other life change or habit. It takes practice and reinforcement.


The bad habit of rebutting our spouse's complaints in the marriage is hard to break. We feel that we have a right to "our side of the story," but the best approach to a behavior or attitude that hurts our spouse, is to STOP DOING IT.


I want you to think about that as you try to continue to get your husband to open up. He should, it's part of the foundation of MB, The Policy of Radical Honesty.

I can tell you why I had an aversion to being open about my feelings with my wife.

When I communicated my feelings to her, or raised a complaint two things happened; 1) she would explain away or justify the behavior that caused my complaint, 2) no changes would be made.

Over the course of years, this lead to me just not complaining, and not wanting to be open. Telling her these thing just lead to her leveling a disrespectful judgment against me, as if my feelings were unimportant.

I can tell you the exact phrase I encountered when I quit being open with her; "Are you in a depression again?"

Just listen, Tgrace - and he should do the same. From there, you move to the use of PoJA to formulate a plan to eliminate the problem.

Just want to say; pure gold here.

And to add; like air or water, SF is at it's most important when you aren't getting any.

Last thing to go, first to get noticed.

And, actually, your post could be from a ton of women in marriages with children.

So, from the H's standpoint; we go from being #1 to coming behind the baby/kids. Then we come behind the chores, then we come behind down time, then we become a chore.

It's quite a fall from being that person that you would drop in to see at work and/or call endlessly, to being something of an annoyance when we try to get a drop of attention.

Last thing to go, first to get noticed? Yeah. That's hanging on to at least one single scrap of your attention. And that only nourishes our LB$ for so long.

I am glad you decided to stick around, tgrace!


But...I think he IS telling you. He sounds like he starving for attention, affection, & SF.

Meeting ENs and avoiding LBers is cyclical. So sure, you both have to focus on cleaning up our side of the street, but if he is starved for his ENs to be met, it is going to be difficult for him to avoid the lovebusters, KWIM?

I can honestly say if I stopped meeting my H's ENs, especially SF, he would get frustrated with me very quickly, grace.

Something to think about...Dr Harley suggests that the less SF women have, the less they want it and the more they have it, the more they want it. He suggests women with low SD to try having SF every day, during the time of day that's best for them etc. It is under the Q&A columns.

Hang in there!

Ugggh

I'm not sure I know how to feel about my husband right now after last night's event. I can certainly tell you that they are mostly negative.

So I really want to work on my marriage and my husband's number one is affection and SEX. So I decide to give him oral and intercourse last night and be a good wife. I had an orgasm and so did he, everything seemed to be fine until I could feel tension and that look he gets on his face when he stews. Immediately I ask him not one, two but three times what is bothering him and he says "you really want me to tell you.?" I said Yes!!! His quote "You were a little loose down there, and a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having sex for a long time" Did I really hear that? I was about to explode but I stayed calm sitting down on the couch across from him. Here we go to the affair thing. First of all I did get a little turned on and you get wet so things can slide in easier, simple as that dummy. I think the last time we had sex that wasn't the case. Anyway I told him how outrageous this is and told him I could account for everywhere I've every been. He has free access to everything!!! So really he wants me to have sex, then this and then he wants affection. Wow my sexual juices will certainly be flowing after this.

I'm not making excuses and I can see how we got here:

Ok seriously I know hilltopper first started his posts 6-8 weeks after having our baby. I'm sorry but after having a baby my vagina wasn't saying "can I have another man's penis please, it was screaming I don't want any penis period" hence the lack of sex. Ok so I've had two vaginal deliveries and this last was a c-section and the recovery sucked since I am such an active individual. I'm not sure where this so called affair would fit into breast feeding every hour to three hours, shuttling the kids to school, karate, cooking class, etc. I'm a stay at home mom with three kids glued to me. I'm also home every night and he knows where and which friends I'm with.

I am guilty of neglecting my husband with affection and lack of sex. Look I know this started with the end of my pregnancy when I was diagnosed with placenta previa and you cannot have sex, doctors orders. Then I had the baby and it was another 6 weeks before intercourse. Then I was just exhausted and gave him more oral sex and less actual intercourse because it was more conveinent. Yes yes I am guilty of that but not an affair. What the hell? My husband over analyzes everything from our personal life to his work which causes him insomnia.

I literally talked to him last night in a loving way and told him to stop analyzing everything. We had a twenty minute discussion over how I was not able to reply back to his text messages quick enough. We sent about twenty back and forth while I was at the park with a friend and her children. Well I actually have to watch my kids at the park and how rude to be texting all the time when someone has invited you to play at the park. He did ask me to write a little more clearly. I promised him I would try to communicate better or that maybe it would be a good idea to not text so much.

Since this morning he has apologized and I partially accept it because I'm so hurt and overwhelmed. I just want him to move past all this and start working on our marriage. Every fight we have had this week is due to him over analyzing and stewing his emotions. I'm sorry for being so sarcastic in this post, but i feel like my life is a big joke right now. I'm willing to move on but man last night is going to be a little hard to overlook. Please help me!!

Breathe.

You have a right to be angry and insulted, and what he said to you was uncalled for. It was admitted and addressed here.

You did do the right thing in telling him to post exactly what he did and said, and to let the members handle it, as for you to do it would be a LB.

Tgrace, it sounds like you pretty much went with it, without expectations or apprehension, so that is good. You are doing good on that front.

The thing is to continue to meet Emotional Needs and avoid Love Busters - making sure to get in your 20+ hours of UA time.

Is it true that you apologized for behaviors that have eroded your relationship to the point that he became paranoid?

That was a rather nice acknowledgment.

Continue to vent here, and take your 2x4's lightly. Time and patience, it gets better.

Can I be honest?

Your H sounds like a jerk with the emotional maturity of a nine-year-old. His intellectual acumen does not present much better.

I know you are responsible for some of the problems in your marriage,but I am totally and utterly appalled.

{{{HTW}}}

Yes I aplogized for the neglect and behaviors that made him insecure. He has become paranoid on his own by trying to read into everything and anything, then over analyze.

After last nights event, you certainly have every right to feel insulted. I have done what your hubby did to my wife .. and she felt exactly as you do/did. I get it. We are heling your hubby through that right now .. and hes getting quite a few 2x4s over it.


Tgrace, you did a fantastic job stepping out of your comfort zone for him. Thats great that you both enjoyed it. Especially after only 4 months since the birth of your child! Amazing! Keep up the good work!


This is good that he is being honest with you.

That quote of his was a disrespectful judgement on his part. Hes being 2x4'd for that as we speak.


Good job! Patience is a virtue!

I believe that your not having an affair. It seems pretty obvious to me and by the context of your posts that you are certainly not having one. Your willingness to be open about things and to help your hubby feel more secure is great! I do not think he or anyone should bring affair up again. Lets move forward and help you two improve your intimacy.


This is why you are here ... and the first step is to acknowledge what the problem is. WHich you have done. Good Job! The next step is to build from that and keep moving forward to making your marriage the best it can be! One day at a time.


That is great that he apologized. I think he is coming around. I have been in your hubbies shoes before with my wife and its hard. When your emotions take control like that .. its soo difficult to step back and see how your effecting the other person. Takes practice and patience from BOTH of you as he slowly begins to feel confident in himself and his security in your marriage and as you begin to be more comfortable in meeting his needs effortlessly. Having young kids hang off you all day will make you feel "touched out" (as my wife put it alot) and as they get older it WILL get easier. Keep working towards that goal. Your kids need happy and loving and affectionate parents!

I personally think you guys are doing rather well considering the circumstances!

Keep posting Tgrace .. the people here will guide you in the right direction!

MNG!

When quoting something, make sure your answers or responses are outside of the [ /quote] marks. Quoting is tricky at first.

Remember: you only control you. YOUR response to his DJs/uncalled for comments are on you. It sounds like you handled it fine as of now, don't ruin it by LBing.

I will go read his thread now.

No, he is paranoid because your actions have left him feeling unimportant and unnecessary to you, and his instinct is to wonder who has taken his place.

Again, it's a critical point you two are at, which will only lead to divorce or worse if things don't turn around.

hold her hand,

sorry I don't agree with you what so ever on the paranoia. The neglect and insecurity I get, but paranoia being defined as "baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others." His personality by nature is critical and analytical. It wasn't until he hit these forums that he got paranoid because of other infidelities and their experiences. He created ideas in his head that he analyzed, stewed over, and thought of constantly.

I'm not making excuses or reasons, but I definitely told him about my lack of sexual drive during this time with the baby. I've always told him how much I appreciate him and how I love his help with the cooking, kids, around the house and how hard he works. That has never been left off the table. Seriously has anyone on these forums had a baby and just not wanted to have sex? Screaming, crying, bathing, feedings, getting out of the car one hundred times a day with three kids. I love my kids and yes it is exhausting. A good mother is exhausted if she is doing her job. I think I passed out with the baby on the couch the first two months by 7:30 or 8:00 everynight. That leaves a lot of time for sex! Again he has always been told how much I appreciate him. I have been terrible at hugging and cuddling with him I admit and of course now I know how important that is. But you are WRONG on the paranoia.

Here's the deal, grace,

Your husband is paranoid and anxious. He's responding to that in absolutely inappropriate and abusive ways. Feel free to tell him respectfully you won't stand for his abuse, that he needs to not be disrespectful toward you at all. (Particularly not after sex! )

But you're not ever going to be able to tell him to not be paranoid or anxious. If you get into a discussion of whether or not he SHOULD feel that way, then you yourself are treading over the line of being disrespectful to him. And that's just going to tear at your already wounded marriage further.

WE can tell your husband we don't think he should be paranoid or anxious. We can tell him to calm down, knock him upside the head, etc.

But if you do that, it'll just drive a wedge between the two of you.

So don't even have the conversation. He feels paranoid. Right or wrong, that's how he feels. You don't have to accept disrespect from him, but do try to accept and respect his feelings, even if you are pretty sure that you would NEVER feel the same way under the same circumstances.

Also, do whatever you can to alleviate the paranoia. Practice being as open and transparent as you can. Tell him where you're going, answer his questions honestly, etc. Offer to let him check up on you. These are things you can DO to SHOW him there is no reason to be paranoid. But there is nothing you can SAY to TELL him there is no reason to be paranoid, because that's going to be a disrespectful judgment on your part in and of itself.

It's going to be difficult to learn to accept those feelings. But you can do it! And if you show him that kind of respect, it's only going to help him be more accepting and respectful of your feelings ... which are probably sometimes a little irrational, too.

Yep. And I told him so on his thread. I told him that the most difficult time of my life was when my third child was a newborn. If you are breastfeeding and have other young children who need you, it's possible to get sick to death of being touched. You are normal. He was a jerk.