I get it, dude.

I did that whole schtick for about 24 hours, and then said "FiretrUCK that!"

The day I changed my mind it went like this "All contact with Douchenozzle will end TODAY, or I will not be here when you get home."

NOT the MB way, by the way. But, it worked.

itBurns, please stay active on this board and don't disappear for weeks at a time. We've been telling you this is NOT a good thing going on with the other man. And its true. There is a lot to fix in your marriage and I bet deep down she really wants you to be her strong man and lead this marriage to something "GREAT". You and she deserve something "GREAT".

Stab this ridiculous relationship with the OM in the heart and get it out and over with! Take the time to make a plan. But do it fast.

Do you have help?
Family?
Your own therapist?
A physician to help you with anti-depressants?
Trust us... this marriage work you are about to enter will be tough and it will be a marathon. But so worth it!

I am in the middle of pain. DDay was 2+ months agao. Exposure in early Feb. I've been an emotional wreck. Couldn't eat, sleep, work, breath. BUT, all that said, along the way I have enjoyed some simply amazing intimate moments with my wife. There is light and its a beautiful light. I can see it...

Hang on. Its a rolle coaster and its HARD and it will HURT. But you MUST DO THIS. What you have right now is simply ridiculous and not even a "good" thing.

So I talked to WW last night using the recommendation of asking WW to stop contact with OM based on my wishes and concerns. I started the conversation stating I had noticed she was texting the male friend (OM) she told me was not a good person. (OM was not spending his money on his kids that the EX has but instead on his 4 wheeler.) Leading into how I felt that I did not want that kind of influence in our lives and would she stop txting him. I was surprised to hear WW say � Yes I will stop texting him..� WW continued with �You remember how I told you I was trying to get him (OM) to straiten out, well these last times I txted him were to do that. I had been telling him to pull his head out and grow up. Now he has a job and lives in his own apartment and not his Dad�s house. I (WW) think it may have sunk in now. So that�s fine I will stop texting him (OM) if that is what you (BS) want.�

Another question I have is something WW asked me. She asked if the reason I don�t want her to txt OM is because I am insecure with her talking to another male. I explained that it was not that, but told WW again that the influence from OM was my reason.
What should I have said? I wanted to say �ya I have a problem with OM telling you he loves you!� but I didn�t. I can see how she may want me to fight for her. To tell her ya I am jealous and don�t want her talking to that trash, but I would have to tip my hand as to why I hate OM. So what would you do? Is it ok t show jealousy or should it be the level headed answer?

Hello All. I have a question about allowing the WW to contact the EA/PA OM. This morning WW said she is going to text OM and then call OM telling him all contact will stop. I am at work and WW is at home. Should I request WW wait for me to be in the room with for the call? I don�t have a VOC were she will be calling  so I would miss it.

No, she should not call him. She should write an NC letter to be reviewed by you.

And, again, nut up dude;

"No, it does not make me insecure that you talk to other men, it makes me furious. I don't accept it, and if you wish to continue in this marriage, with me you will cease this activity. It is destroying my love for you, and destroying our marriage."

Don't let her answer or argue, she doesn't get an opinion about how you feel. State your case, walk away.

I would support HHH's answer 100%.

Not for discussion with her, yet, but since you don't yet fully "get" it, the idea behind this program is that there are certain interpersonal transactions that are ENTIRELY the province of the spouses to each other. She is "spending" her "care allotment" on someone who has no legitimate claim to it, and receiving "strokes" to her own needs from him. That is the path to disaster.

You are right to stop it NOW!

Thank you HHH. I agree whole heartedly with you! How do I say this without accusing her of EA/PA? As you can see from the words below she is very fast to play the controling card. Crap, how did my marriage get to this point? I have always wanted things the way you see things HHH, the way the survivors here see things. I will be strong (read 'nut up') and state my case.

This is more conversation from last night: Then I told her about a call I made to WW�s girl friend confiding that I was going to be talking to WW about something WW may need support with. The friend of course agreed to be there for WW if needed. WW see�s my call as controlling and she would call who ever she wants if she wants and not someone I �tell� her to call. I tried to state that it was just me concerned for WW. Now WW is very mad at both me and friend as I broke the boundary of contacting �her� one confidant that would listen and not try to fix things. The result of this part was I apologized and told WW I though the girl friend was a mutual friend but I could see having the boundary would be no problem.

Today is another story. WW is saying she doesn�t want to ever talk to the girl friend again and that I hurt her for calling her friend and how could she (WW) be so naive. About what she was naive I can�t tell you because she won�t explain it to me.

I am not an expert and won't take the position that I am. There are many here. But I had nearly that same conversation. My WW told me I was "so insecure" and that we were "so different in how we see things" and that I was "pushing her away" and that she felt no romance for him, he was "like a big brother." I guess that is how she felt at the time. Or that is how she justified it to herself.
But my gut and experience to date say that there is a HUGE difference between jealousy and requesting that your marital relationship remain true to "forsaking all others." And if it would have been okay for you to ask (and be promised) that on your wedding day it is equally okay for you to ask that today.
And it is okay to ask for you both to have boundaries that you are comfortable with and can live with.
When I sensed the first A from my WW I told her I would fight for her (I had no info at all). And I had not read the MB play book. I don't think it will be attractive to her for you to fight for her. She already committed to you once. Rather make a commitment to yourself to follow MB the way the experts here direct you.
itburns_so, I know this all has you churning beyond your own experience. I know it first hand. I am sorry you have to go through this. There are so many people here who care and who have the empathy for you that is right now missing from your WW. Wish I had the true expertise but I do not. What I do have is lots of understanding of what it is like to be where you are and I believe you have every reason to HOPE.
Nobody uses a full court press for the entire game so keep that in mind too. Be good to yourself right now. Do something just for you today. (I am partial to visiting the "puppy store" and asking to hold a puppy for a few minutes when I am having a particularly bad day. Hey its free and it inevitably makes me feel good for whatever reason. It works!)
Blessings,
Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Now 18 Months into Plan A.
At the very beginning of the Trickle Truth Stage.... Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)

....she is very fast to play the controling card...WW see�s my call as controlling and she would call who ever she wants if she wants....WW is very mad at both me and friend....WW is saying she doesn�t want to ever talk to the girl friend....she won�t explain it to me....

Has your ENTIRE time with her been spent with her wearing the man-pants in your relationship?

Here's the NEW game-plan, IBS:

When WW issues another one of her castrating pronouncements, you answer, "I'm doing this to recover and strengthen our marriage. What is YOUR motivation for opposing me on this." Say nothing else.

There are good reasons to fight for a marriage. One of them is to retain a relationship in which two people work together, respect and support one another, and put the partner above all others.

Have you ever had such a relationship with her?

Stating that you find it unacceptable to have opposite sex friends in your marriage does not have to bring up an EA/PA situation. If you feel comfortable, use the exact sentence I posted.

If she accuses you of being "controlling," here is your answer;

"It is impossible for me to control you. What I can control is the conditions of the marriage I wish to share with you, and those conditions do not include opposite-sex friendships."

Nah. I wouldn't give her the chance.

What's her motivation for contacting a former/current AP? Any other male for that matter?

Simple, keeping IBS as a rolling "Plan B."

This, IBS, is what we call creating and keeping boundaries.

Hmmmm... yup. IBS - irritable bowel syndrome. It fits, she's giving you a plate full of shiitake mushrooms.

IBS, this is a little tricky. You need to be careful, calling women and flagging them that there are marital issues in your home. Can you explain why you would do this? Maybe I'm missing something. Why did you feel the need to tell this woman that your wife may be calling her? They're friends, so it wouldn't surprise this woman if your WW called her. What am I not getting?

MBliss you are correct. I screwed up there. Now I am getting blamed for ruining her friendship. Specificaly how and why I can't tell you as WW won't tell. She is just pissed that I called her friend. :| I did it thinking the girl friend would be a vioce of reason for WW. If Gfriend was aware of situation then maybe WW would tell Gfriend and finaly admit to EA. It looks like that backfired just like you suspected MBliss.

Right now WW is talking D. She says that I was wrong looking at the txt on the bill to spy on her. She is way pissed. I used word like what you all are suggesting. I told her I found the txt by looking at the bill. That when I saw how much time she was spending txting OM that that gave me warrent to watch the txts. I told her that when she lied and hid OM contact then I got furiouse about the time spent on him that should be spent on her family. She said it is only because he is male and I am insecure. I told WW that I was a lot of things after she lied to me and one of them was I was justfied. Still nothing from WW admiting she did anything wrong. Just me. Now WW says there is No working on things with her. We are done. Why would she contact OM to stop contact if she wants D? I am telling WW that this is to make our marrage better. I am very willing to work on this if she changes her mind.

Yes there was a time when we worked together well. And since findinf MB I have been working on building up her LB. Things were much better with us. I had a setback these last few weeks with stress from work making me argue more that I liked. We are dam good when its good times together. From what WW is telling me the condisending and controlling are too much for her. I am willing to work harder on that I told her. She is saying we are D. That she has been thinking that for a few months. WoW I am as blind as a bat then. I stuck to telling her I will work harder. I didn't find fault in her other than her lie about the times she txts OM. I am so sad this feels textbook. I was so sure we would be survivors. cu

Yes there was a time when we worked together well. And since findinf MB I have been working on building up her LB. Things were much better with us. I had a setback these last few weeks with stress from work making me argue more that I liked. We are dam good when its good times together. From what WW is telling me the condisending and controlling are too much for her. I am willing to work harder on that I told her. She is saying we are D. That she has been thinking that for a few months. WoW I am as blind as a bat then. I stuck to telling her I will work harder. I didn't find fault in her other than her lie about the times she txts OM. I am so sad this feels textbook. I was so sure we would be survivors. cu

IBS, you are right that you screwed up, but not in the way that you think.

You screwed up because you fumbled the ball.

You shouldn't have called her friend to bolster support for WW.

You should have; called all friends and family, and exposed your WW's continuing adulterous behavior.

She would have been just as angry. She would have screamed, stomped, moaned, and made the same complaints - but her crap would have been out there for everybody.

Now? Well now she can repeat the same crap she is using to buffalo you; "Oh, he's controlling, he's condescending, he won't let me keep texting my affair partner! Woe is me!"

You got no backbone, man. Jumping Jehoshaphat.

You; "Stop this activity! It's destroying our marriage!"

Her; "Why are you controlling, why can't I just keep having an affair? You are so condescending! I want a divorce!"

You; "Yes dear, sorry dear, continue your affair dear. I'm sorry I fought for our marriage dear."

IBS, if you come back, I want you to tell me when you hear the *pop* ok?

Yep HHH you must be right on the money. All I can say is that yep I will be back when I hear this 'PoP' ! I am not letting her continue contact. WW agreed to no contact. I am seeing how I have been convinced most every problem in our marrage is my fault. I use to stand up for myself. I was just so tired, so worn down I gave in. I can see this.

Good!

I don't know if it's a BH thing, or a BS thing - we shoulder so much blame, that it's hard to just drop it and say "This will NOT STAND!"

I did that a lot in the first few months, and relapsed once or twice... but, for the most part I simply would not accept the blame for her decision. There were plenty of alternatives - speaking up (hello?), separation, divorce. A lot of those things are addressable and reversible.

Adultery is not.

Don't allow her to beat you down and bring you to her level.

EXPOSE. AGAIN.

Yes, she will be pissed. However, it's not exposure that is the problem, it is her continued WRONG behavior.

Chin up, chest out, I wanna hear them clank!

I know that what I'm about to write is open to the response of "That's easy for YOU to say.....", but I'll type it anyway. The dissolution of a marriage is a terrible result, hurtful to both parties and any progeny. The continuation of a "marriage" based on one member fearing, and doing anything to avoid, the disapproval of the partner is WORSE!

If every one of your now-and-future actions is consistent with protecting and strengthening the bonds between you and your wife, and those actions conflict with what appears to be her highly arrogant and self-entitled mind-set, that problem is entirely hers to deal with, and cannot be made yours. There would then be the "Clint Eastwood" branching of results:

• GOOD - She may be smart enough to see through her own initial pique, and eventually credit and respect you for your stand, eventually leading both of you to repair and recovery
• BAD - Her self-delusion is well-anchored enough not to be able to understand why you are now - finally - standing up for your union, and she does follow through on her threats to D
• UGLY - Her belligerence scares you into halting your efforts, and your union drifts out of this crisis, into the next one, until finally it dissolves of "nothingness"

I do NOT envy you your situation. All the failures/inattention/abdication that got you where you are are of no import now. You can only act in the future, as we here are urging you to do.