I don't think you should be the one to tell him his attitude stinks. Please call Steve if you can, and get your H on the phone with him.

When I talk about the romantic love part, he says he doesn't think it's realistic to capture what we had in the early years. Too much stress, too many kids etc. I pointed out that he has time/money for golf. If he would redirect that to us, it could only help us. He def thinks it is a sacrifice to give up golf. That's what he means about me dictating things. Suggested he golf on his nights away from us so weekends can be for me and family. He didn't really like that idea. He'd still be missing out on his fav foursome.

I know he won't want to spend the $ on talking to SH.

His suggestion is that I need more of my own outside interests. Says I can cut down on what I do for him and use the time for myself. I explained how that does nothing for our relationship. He disagrees.

FH, I think you have a very hard time dealing with your husband and that is due to his manipulative personality. [take it from a former con artist, it takes one to know one - your H is one of us] He does not want to use the program because he rightly senses it will interfere with his independent behavior. Instead of saying that, he frames his objections in the form of a THREAT and blames your hypersensitivity. I don't believe you are equipped to deal with someone like that, do you?

For that reason, I am going to suggest you move to phone coaching with Steve Harley, someone who CAN handle his manipulative behavior. Steve can knock down the bullcrap and perhaps motivate him to GET HONEST and get on board. You don't have to convince your H to do this yourself. You can counsel with Steve alone and he will tell you HOW to get your H on the phone. That is what I would do if I were in your shoes.

I would call Steve Harley and counsel with him yourself. Let Steve tell you what to say to get him on the phone. Stop fighting a battle when you are out manned.

Dh does not want to do MB. Says it's just another way for the man to have to change to what the woman wants. I gave in to that for a while and said I'll just work on me. I have been doing much better on DJs etc.

Lots of stress (My Mom has had brain surgery two times in 3 weeks) and I told dh I really need to give notice at my one job. Feel like I'm falling apart. Need new antidepressant meds and don't have time to even get to the Dr. Etc. At first he said it's up to me, but quickly texted we need to discuss it. Now, a few weeks ago we discussed this very thing.

At that time he said that he wants me to stay w both these jobs even when he gets a permanent job. Need to save for retirement, he's noticed I'm happier when there's more $, etc. I said I'm happier when my life is more balanced, too many things,'especially w kids, are half-done etc. Doesn't seem to hear me.

Said we need to be able to discuss things, maybe there's a better solution, but I never show him respect and won't listen. I've already told him why I need to quit. I think he's the one not listening.

Oh and I'm finding myself caring less and less about things. I think I'm going into withdrawal. I don't want to fight but I also don't feel there is much point in talking.

He's away from home, right? Who does the bills? If you can swing it, just quit the stress job. If you can't, get a hold on the bills and eliminate! You are doing no favors for your marriage by suffering for his benefit. Cut every expense by as much as possible. I know a bunch of people think it can't be cut any more, but it can. Expenses can always be cut. Downsize! Better than doping up to deal.

"no, i'm not enthusiastic about working two jobs" Say it! That's poja.

We can afford it. This is about his feeling of security.

Did you ever do this?

I have not called SH. I am realizing that I fear my dh's reactions to things. My deciding to quit work or trying to get him to talk to SH, I know he will be angry and withdraw from me, pout, etc. He also say I'm disrespecting him. Part of the issue here are my religious beliefs re: submission. I'm confused. But I'm also feeling more and more hopeless.

Well, I hope you don't believe that submission=driving yourself into the ground from being overworked just because your dh wants the extra money.

I detest men who use religion to excuse their bullying behavior toward their wives.

Edited to add: Forgot to mention that I believe in the headship arrangement too. But we need to not forget that husband were counseled to love their wives as their own bodies.

Submission doesn't mean sacrifice. Markos and I are very religious, and I "submitted" our marriage right into the ground. This kind of sacrificial submission will only destroy your love for your husband, and destroy your marriage as a result.

This is what a Biblical marriage looks like: a wife submits to her husband, and so she does not do anything that her husband is not enthusiastic about and doesn't gain at his expense. A husband loves his wife as himself, and so he does not do anything that his wife is not enthusiastic about and doesn't gain at her expense.

Hmm, kinda sounds like POJA.

Exactly.

We all change in life. It only makes sense to direct that change so that we become MORE compatible with our spouse, not less.

I noticed you mentioned submission, and I assume that means you are a Christian and trying to follow what the Bible says about marriage. Is your husband a Christian, too? Does he not believe that he is supposed to love his wife? Because this is what love IS!

But that is exactly what marriage IS! Marriage is a program in which your performance is going to be judged by your spouse. Even if they never say anything, their feelings are going to be affected by everything you do.

The measure of how good a wife is is her husband's feelings.
The measure of how good a husband is is his wife's feelings.

Does your husband attend a church anywhere?

Dh is not yet a Christian. He does attend church with us periodically. When he mentions respect I'm not sure he's talking about what the Bible teaches, although he might be since he knows what I believe.

Happiness, these are really important things to reason through, and I'm glad you have the courage to reason through it here with others.

OK, so a couple of questions. Dh thinks we should try to make ourselves happier, and that will make the marriage happier. Given that I believe MB principles are best, do I continue to try to use POJA etc. even if he doesn't?

Also, if I do go ahead and quit my job, should I make one more attempt to help him see why this is important to me? Or just tell him that I simply can't keep up this schedule, and give notice?

If he's on board with you making yourself happier, I'd just tell him that quitting that job will make you happier and you wanted to make sure you heard him right, that he gives you his enthusiastic agreement to do this which makes you so happy.