Inspired by the ladies, I have the next assigned reading;

Blow Up Your Relationship with Your Mother-And Get One Step Closer to Being the Man You Want to Be


I need to get this one.

For one, it doesn't help that my mother inflicted adultery on my father when I was young, or that her current husband was probably another episode of adultery (I don't know when things began, what I know is that it wasn't long after divorce that my mother moved herself and I in with him).

Even more so, after some nasty battling with the "'ol jerkwad" he decided to confide in me that his animosity toward me was a result of my mother treating him like trash, and his jealousy of her children.

The sad thing is, I actually side with a man I would love to hate, as I know exactly how emasculating it is to love a woman who treats you like you aren't worth the dog poo on her shoe... even though in his case that woman is my mother.

However, he needs to cure his chronic case of foot-in-mouth. I told him he has my ear, and if he will listen, I will do what I can to help him.


Here's the thing, I allowed myself to move from one mother to another.

The first was my own, the second was the mother of my children. Fun fact; one of FWW's old argument tactics was; "We'll just see what your mother thinks about this!"

No phrase ever uttered unleashed a fury in me like that one.

I have hit something of a stride in my personal recovery where I am just totally let going of fear. Fear of rejection, fear of rebuttal, fear of being wrong (I'd rather be wrong and happy, than right and miserable), fear of breaking peace (which means sacrificing self respect to maintain peace).

I just don't have any more fear left, I have nothing in my life left to lose.

Gentleman, it's time to send mamma packin'.

LOL! You, too...I'm outta here, Reynolds is coming...

I love it, but it doesn't work on UBB dark theme.

lmao. My wife used to tell me all the time "I'm calling your mom!" This was code for 'you've done something that really pissed me off'. I would have threatened the same thing but my wife's mom is pretty ghetto and thinks that you should trade a man in as soon as he doesn't jump as high as the wife demands immediately. Of course, I've never been one to emasculated or whatever, so that never flew. But, geez, if one of her mom's husbands didn't fall into submission because of verbal aggression, she'd pick something up and start throwing it at them and beat them with inanimate objects. Why anyone ever married her or put up with her behavior was beyond me.

Then my mom would tell my dad and I'd get the lecture. So it wasn't the mom I feared but the lecture from dad.

Speaking of which, I need to call my parents. I haven't spoke iwth either of htem for about 3 weeks.

Running to mommy is a below-the-belt tactic. The last time FWW used that tactic, I was the one bringing fire down from the sky...

Now days it just wouldn't happen, but then she figured it would be a way to get one over on me because she mistook my seeking the advice of my parents for seeking the permission of my parents.

Reflecting on this, it was my wife's way of venting at the time. She'd confide with mom who would agree with her always that she was right and since I was the husband, I just had to be wrong. And then running to my mom. Geez.

I only tolerated that a couple times before I put a stop to it. I'm sure not going to be pushed around by another guy, let alone a 110 pd woman.

Of course this was years ago and we've both learned so much. I do remember I finally told her after venting to her mom and hten calling mine, "Go ahead and get your stuff and get out." She looked at me like I was crazy. To which I replied, "I won't put up with disrespect. And I'm certainly not going to settle for being in a relationship with a woman that's going to act like a witch." Replace the word witch with something else. I'll admit that wasn't the best way to phrase it. But we were both really young and have learned a lot. She quit after that.

HHH,
Thats so interesting about the relationship with your Mom, and how you relate so much crap to your struggle with her.

Its also true that you can probably point to your father getting emasculated by her, and his life being scarred by her behavior.

I have some of the same results in my life, and like you are traveling some of the same journey. I will explain a little bit of the simularitys. I yet have found an answer, but like you, see the result in my current life and he choices I have made, and still ticked off and determined, to go down fighting.

In my case the strong and adult person with my parents, was my mom. My Dad was the impossible stubborn and selfish border on crazy one. They were both damaging in thier own way, but Mom knew that us kids were individuals, and was not as much of a baby as my Dad. Mom damaged me as a woman who protected her kids from Dad, and to a boy who wanted to please his Dad, who he desperatly beleived was strong and wanted to do the best bravely for his family, in his heart, to fall short made my life a mission to make him happy. When instead I was treated like I failed him every day, it was very emasculating to say the least. I grew up being run over by everybody, and allways with more to prove than the average boy. Youv'e seen those boys, getting beat up and never standing up for themselves, and youv'e probably wondered why.

But thats not what I was gonna go into, or how I got out of that or what I am looking at now. That is something else, as it pertains to my future and peace.

What I see now, and has been hid from my view because of my struggle to right the wrongs in myself, whether put thier by fools or other such selfish people, the struggle to fight to fix things that don't even exist except in my own mind and imagination, is that I have allways had a tendency to try to "fix" damaged people, like my Dad, and that I was drawn to this like a moth to a flame, not even realizing why, when I fell in love with any woman desparatly. I'm not talking about loving the good things, but the part of why I allowed myself to stay when things got bad.

There was a great difference.

If you read about relationships, it says you go though life trying to repair damaged ones, and it isn't limited to Boy and Mom, Daughter and Dad, it has to do with acceptance with yourself also. With my late WW, she was just as messed up as my Dad. He was allways one of those people that others were afraid for his stability, and I went though my young life trying to give him what he said he wanted, just to see him ruin his life, because he was scared and selfish. I compulsivly did the same with my WW and her problems. Both of them stubbornly held onto thier sicknesses and obsessions. My Dad was used by his own problems, and never had friends, because nobody trusted him, and is now broke and alone in a nurseing home, incapable of any converstaion or relationship outside his own mind. The story of my WW, well she is gone home, and she did herself in her own way, and yes fear took her over. As much as I did to try and help her, she didn't want help, she also had her own flame she was drawn to, and a selfish need to allow the fears she allways talked about, ending up like her Mom, become her fate.

Talk about "what I fear most has come upon me", and letting what What attacks me twist me into that, well we all can be poster children to that, if our emotions get the best of us. In ways only we know, we must protect ourselves from ourselves, and one would hope we pick a mate who understands that also, not using our weaknesses against us.

Its funny, I explained all this to my WW, and also saw the hold it had on her, and there was the attraction. There was what the kinship was forged, the feeling of we still had something to prove, a place inside of us that was not fufilled yet, a cause and reason for living. We had both had things in our life that we were trying to rectify, past pain that had made us different from others. I felt we could help each other. Now I am thinking we destroyed each other, and catered to emotions that should never had to be there, and even made it worse. It was in a way a revertion to childhood, and it felt comfortable because we knew those feelings well. The brave struggle against all odds, nobody understood.

I was aware of this, and was detirmined to put our demons in the past through hard work and realistic goals, introspection and humility, help from all sources. She just had some inner insecurity issues, that she would not work on, that she escaped into also with a fear that became flight, that was what I saw, as I saw it in my Dad, and what kept me in it. I felt pity on her, and responsible also. What a [censored] experience that was.

The good thing is, that I am aware of it, and can see that there is hope for the future. I can tell when my spirit is reacting to fear, and when I am doing something out of some inner drive that is shortsighted and reactionary. There is the spirit of love still in the world, and there can be also built from the ashes, another love even deeper than before. The most important thing to me is figuring out the bullchit, and throwing it in the trash where it belongs, and this takes time, and objective help, from all the positive sources out here, that are willing to fight for the same.

I may feel alone sometimes, but I am not really, and knowledge is power. I have nothing but time anyways, and limited in what I can do or fix, and its never been up to me alone anyways. Shame on those who would take advantage of others weaknesses. God will take care of them, even if we don't want to see them go down.

Oh I forgot to mention, Mom is 84, diabetic, lives by herself, goes to bingo has lots of friends and her own car, and is sharp as a tack still.

She only ever slept with one man, my father, and never found interest beyond him.

He damaged her capacity to ever get involved or married again, but her nature sustained her. She is what I call a strong women, and had everything to do with whatever sanity I have.

Makes you wonder where strength comes from, she has allways been a great person, and I don't think she saw my Dad coming, but she was allways a servent anyways, a caretaker.

Guess who I looked up all my life?

Brother CP; your humble and honest introspect is one of the reasons you one of my favorite people here.

I wanna grow up to be you, dude.

oops! This is the Mans place. Sorry. Lol

My work is done!!!

Now thats a post worthy of the man thread.

I remember when I had the same determination and self-respect KT, wish I had MB to support me when i started to lose it. It was the "marrige at any cost" thing that effected me, and then the regression into the wrong thinking, self-blame, believing it, blah blah, so-on and so-on.

Reminds me of "just cuz, thats why!". Also a light went off in my silly little head when I was reading Exodus, and when Moses asked God who he should tell Pharoah sent him, He said, "Tell him "I am" sent you".

Talkin about nutting up Lol

I've just always been a "you won't treat me this way" kind of person. I think I had a hard time overcoming selfishness more than anything else. I chalk this up as being an only child in a very well-to-do family in which I got anything and everything I wanted.

When I was around 18 I learned that others don't control how you feel; you control how you feel. One of the issues this did cause early in the relationship with my wife is she thought I just didn't care about things. So many humorous arguments about "why do you even care so much about" vs "why don't you care about..."

Something I haven't mentioned much or maybe even at all is my wife has extreme bipolar disorder so that has played a bit into our marriage.

Yeah KT, I understand those arguments too.

Yup we are in control of how we feel, we don't have to be around others that make us feel bad either, well as free adults we don't, unless its that [censored] at work, and so on. Where its outta our jusrisdiction.

I want to study some more about bi-polar disorder. From what I know its the new word for manic-depression. Of course this is a physical description for results that can be explained in behaviour, but I am such a preek when it comes to free will thoughts compared to emotional markers in human behavior, it is tough to convince me a lot of people aren't mis-diagnosed.

I am a firm beliver that people can becaome damaged from circumstances, and it effects brain chemistry, and even can shut off parts of the chemicals out of reaction to fear. I would think it is normal sometimes, and part of self preservation and survival.

I was diagnosed with Bi-polar, then it was brought down to a mild case, now I am going to go to a new shrink to get re-eveluated. This guy doesn't belive at throwing pills at people, but instead in thinking and envirment, along with a natural balance of healthy excercise and diet.

At one time I was precsribed lithium, and then it was a milder dose of Lacmetitol. All the drugs ever did was shut me down between the ears. I didn't feel any better, but I think it was because I was not balanced in my personal life, and to me to be better is to do better.

I am ready to do just what I can do, and be happy with that, and know my weaknesses, which as you know becuase of your training, is really where we can work to improve our performance, and not push ourselves beyond what we can do, as we strengthen our muscles, physical or spiritual.

I am in therapy, and not letting myself get away with too much, and willing to take on all comers, as I fight to get myself back into life fully. I guess thats just the little boy in me that still has something to prove. But what is such a hard thing to balance, is why I do anything, if it doesn't have something to do with someone else. What do I want for myself, and need for myself, first, to be any strength for anyone anyway. I guess that at this point, finding myself, and taking care of me, is my first priority, and really should be for everyone.

Maybe thats what the Irish guy in braveheart was talking about,(although I can see he,"Wasn't right in the head" lol). Maybe self reliance means you have to talk to God for objective knowledge and value for yourself, reguardless of what others think. So many crazy people have used Him as an excuse. But they were unbalanced anyway, if they really believed, nobody would have noticed, because they wouldn't have screwwed up so bad. They wouldn't have destroyed so much in His name.

See the humor?

Well getting off subject again.

I am interested in how Bi-polar works, and like diabetes, if I have some abnormality between the ears, I will have to deal with it, ir it will own me, as all weaknesses own us if we let them. Personally, I like to turn curses into blessings, but again theres the cockiness that I hope makes me part of the Manly Man.

Just building the confidance and cockiness through humility? Now C'mon That doesn't seem fair does it?

Take care of your preciuos wife KT, I know you will.

OH BTW, I havn't taken the drugs for a year now, and i am "thinking" my way out of my depression, and have gotten better. But I give credit to this place and therapy, and the drama that has been removed from my life also. the last ten years have been pretty hard.

Don't worry though, I'm not about to end up at McDs with a handgun because I snapped lol. I am willing to explore the possibilty of having Bi-Polar, I just refuse to let it be an excuse for being an A-hole. Gotta set those bars high allways, while keeping our feet on the ground.

Interestingly, Harper Lee, a woman (last I heard), wrote To Kill A Mockingbird.

Then again...maybe Truman Capote (a gay man) and real life neighbor and friend of Harper Lee secretly authored the Atticus Finch part.

Who knew?

Mr. W


p.s. - As a man, I define my own masculinity.

Yeah but it is in the past now and you got it handled. Grats my friend. Some do not make it out of those places.

Better yet Mr W, you become the new definition. Now that testostrezone at its finest!

I was diagnosed at 8 with manic-depression. I tried to hang myself when I was 8; everyone figured I had a problem then because who tries to kill themself at 8. I am a 'normal, functioning' adult. Because of this, I did not believe in bipolar before meeting my wife. I'm a firm believer that some people have bipolar. I'm also a believer that bipolar is overly misdiagnosed. Lastly I'm a believer that diet of both teh individual and the mother when pregnant play a part in the way people live/act/feel/are.




Don't. And, at the same time, don't let people get away with things that harm you emotionally, physically, spiritually, verbally. While you can't always control your environment, you can control yourself and how you respond. The world is full of haters. Don't drink the haterade and don't let the haters get to you.


Being humble and being a weak pacifist are completely different. For the first time in my life, I'm going to use a Bruce Lee quote. "Be like water, my friend." You have to be able to go with the flow and be unwaveringly strong at the same time.


I will. She's an exquisite woman. We are lucky to have each other. It's pretty sweet when you mesh with someone.

Good point.

Copote, however, didn't model Atticus. He modeled Dill Harris, which has been mentioned by Lee.

Atticus was modeled by her father;


(Wiki info)

While Lee denies the autobiographical vein of the story, Capote has confirmed that the character of Boo Radley was based on an actual person who lived in their neighborhood who would leave things in the trees.

So the question from there becomes; was Atticus written as Lee's father really was, or did Lee inject her own ideals into the character?