Hi Having Faith,

I'm not sure if I've ever posted to you before. I just read this thread, and my heart goes out to you. Our stories are somewhat similar. We've been married for about the same time as you, but my husband had affairs, emotional and physical, spread out over the whole marriage, and while we were dating. I just didnt know about it until 4 1/2 yrs ago. All of this is very similar as well.......



Instead of slipping into long work hours, like he use to do, he played an online internet game nonstop for a few years, then AA coed meetings, where he would run into blasts from his past. I didn't want him to attend co-ed AA mtgs, but he wanted to and did, on and off, anyway. He also was very uncaring about my feelings at times while gawking at women on the beach, etc, etc.

I could never heal fully. I myself went to an attorney's office three times over the last few years. He wasn't committed to the marriage, and was extremely emotionally selfish and abusive, towards all of us at home.

My stbx also said he didn't want to work on the marriage and left. Just two weeks before that he had committed to working on the MB program with me again, after not doing it for quite some time. I do not know if another woman was involved, but I know the fantasy of an easier woman was involved. He didn't get that to regain trust, it had to be earned. Or that fair weathered friends are not equipped to be a serial cheaters. He now hides in a new religion that has no right or wrong, and is currently involved with another woman. He filed for divorce the end of April.



My husband would be present when it suit him. Most of the time he resented me because I was having a hard time, was withdrawn from him due to selfishness, or physically in pain. We did have some tender moments throughout it all, but he often times couldn't see past his pain, and neither could I.



I had also came to those same realizations. It propelled me forward. Good for you.



I'll probably be making a move soon as well. I'm going to miss my home. I'll just grieve that as well and keep moving.




Same here. He's not willing to put any money in the house to fix it up at all. It's a stupid move on his part, if we're going to sell it. Who knows, at one point he wanted the house. I cannot afford to do the work myself.



I think our stories are different here. Most of my anger came out during the recovery, and continued because of his lies and shoddy boundaries. I went through a very painful time when he left, and I couldn't touch anger with a ten foot pole. I concentrated on forgiveness, or I never would have survived that. I've only recently been getting angry again, but I do try to let it go as quick as I can, when I feel it.



Me too. In those early days, I had to focus on just living for another day.

It gets better in time. Practice thinking positive thoughts about your future. I know it's hard to do that, when you don't want a future without your stbx, but it does help.

You're a strong woman HF. I think in the end you'll be happy that you respected your own boundaries.

Hugs.

My oldest graduates in a couple of weeks. So for sure we will be hear until then. Thanks for the input.

We posted years ago during recovery, my user name was Amartini... anyway something happened one day and I couldn't use that log on... Seems I remember posting with WS...which helped me bc I could figure out what the heck was going on with my STXH... they did have similar thought patterns...

Looking back I wouldn't be surprised if my STXH didn't have multiple A... this could be why he wouldnt do a polygraph after the A...So maybe they are similar there.


Me either... I had decided it was because his OW attempted contact every six months for about 3 years... it was heartbreaking each time, it was like D-day all over again... and yes he would say all the right things... but his actions the last several months were no supportive or helpful...

This whole thing sucks... I did not choose this D... he just got tired of working on it... to me he drove us into a ditch and was not able to get us out...he got tired...


Ya know maybe this is some of what my STXH was feeling... maybe that is why he was angry, no longer cared... he was mad bc he couldn't fix what he had done? I think the problem I'm having is that I can see past the pain... I was much happier the days prior to him walking than I was months after the A... and I felt our relationship was different- in some ways better and others not so much...


I would tend to agree with you in regards to my STXH.

Regarding trust, it was just so hard for me to believe him... yes I'd find out about the attempted contacts- 80% were when I'd ask to see his work email and there they were... no he hadnt looked at them, they were new messages... I chalked it up to coincidence. I would feel safe when my needs were being met, but oh my as soon as they weren't I was paranoid... at one time I believe I could have handled going a little low bc of busy work hours, kids stuff etc but after the A, my bucket had a slow leak, it was never completely the same... it took more from him and it needed to be consistent- not just when he felt like it... make sense? And maybe that is what he was tired of...



Hmmm... you see differences I see similarities... I was very angry and hurt after the A... I had to do a ton of self-talk to exist in the same room... however, overtime I began to repress some of my anger bc I felt like dang it had been so long and I was still so mad at him... then his poor boundaries (from my POV eating lunch with a single W, who's been with a MM in his office) were slapping me around- coupled with lots of work hours... and there you go I was mad, angry and unleashed on him... no it wasnt right, but reflecting back it was no worse than his boundaries... emotionally hurtful but repairable... I felt at peace when I let it fly out of me...

He was already done at this point... he said when I erupted he felt nothing... he didn't care that I was hurting from the A, or the similar patterns that were taking place....

I still looked at him with the perception of what a great man, father, friend etc... I mourn for the loss of my friend... the man who has moved on... it is bc of this I need to detach from him... I just thought the best thing to do is focus on the negative aspects- like he's been gone almost a month and has only call the boys twice- once after I said something bc he hadnt called... I ignore the good elements of this man and focus on the bad- for now- to break away...

I'm scared about my financial stability... I am angry bc he cant look at what is best for the boys, as well as what I gave up in my career, to stay home with them or the things I gave up to heavily invest in our retirement years...

It sucks bc when it is all said and done this man will still bring home about 100K (after child support) and I will only make 30K (on my paycheck) ... that's it... I'm not 20... I'm competing for jobs with younger people...it bites... I'm scared... oh and I will have to help pay for college bc that account will now be split in half and I doubt he will continue to pay into it or use it for what it was intended- the boys going to college... it bites

Well, we have court Monday for the separation orders... As of today at 330 he did not have an attorney... who knows whats going on with him...

Thanks for listening
HavingFaith

OMG! He came to court without an attorney and requested time to obtain one. So two more weeks for our separation hearing. Saying he didn't have time to get one...really? ya play in a ball tournament the day after and you dont have time. He's the one that walked out and he hasnt had time?!?!?

I just cant believe me life right now! It sucks.

I think I will hire a PI. Not bc I want to know but bc I need the extra 10%... I feel so low right now. What happened to the man I married anyway?

I'm so sorry. I don't have any advice, but I just want you know that someone heard and cares.

Your life will get better. It just takes time.

HF,

Just got a chance to post, had inlaws visiting for the last 5 days.

HIRE A PI!!! YES! it's worth the 10% and you can split the bill. (or see if your attorney can send 100% to him)

It might get you more.

What about alimony? what is the Texas law on that? Is your attorney a "man hater?"

your STBXH sounds like he is very unorganized.... you have the upper hand here, keep way ahead of him.

I just typed a long post and my computer shut off *@##!

ok, Have you thought about staying put for a year or so to let the kiddos adjust? just a thought. Has your WH called them lately??? how are they handling it thus far?

I'm glad to hear you have your masters. I too quite college in order to support my FWH through the police academy...then babies...ect... I have worked part time through the years, but nothing full time since 1995. It scared the "bajeebers" out of me thinking about divorce and all that....

I am seriously thinking of taking some web design courses at our local college so I have something useful it offer.

I can't get over the fact that your STBXH showed up wo an attorney ....what did the judge say??? That shows his irresponsibility!

Is your attorney a "man hater?" Did she say you would only get $30K? even with a long marriage and infidelity....

OK, sorry about the double post asking if your attorney is a "man hater" ....really I'm not an evil person, just lost a post and forgot that I had already asked you that.

But, I do %100 think you should hire a PI, and push for everything you can. I know you want to get it over with, but you have to think of your kiddos and your financial future.

I don't know what the buffoon was thinking not having an attorney. At one time I thought he was gonna represent himself. He sat there with the orders making little notes on them. I mean really? He deals with court issues all the time in his line of work. Is he that full of himself that he thought he could handle it? Did he walk out as some type of manipulation thinking I'd be like OK honey come on home- you can check out of the marriage, work as many hours as you want, and eat lunch with whomever- regardless of what it does to me or your family... Was is because he doesn't deal well with confrontation and his attorney would be asking him all kinds of questions? IDK He's a buffoon!

My attorney spoke with him for a couple of minutes, said he sounds like he is willing to cooperate and just wants it to be done. Guess he should have brought an attorney with him.

The judge said nothing other than keep up the good work, working together see ya in two weeks.

I sat in that court room, in utter disbelief that my M is ending. I kept thinking I cant believe this.

I've had a couple nibbles on some stuff I've applied for, which prompted me to call STXH.

When I told him I was about 90% sure I might have a job, he was very curious where, if it was what I really wanted to do etc... my reply was "I have to get a job to support the kids. You walked out, I do not have the luxury of taking my dream job." He pressed where it was and I simply said "Don't worry about it."

The reason I brought the job up was bc our oldest just started working...he had an old car for about a week and wreck it... so the plan was when he got a job we'd work with him to replace it... well that was before STXH left...

When I called I asked him if he would be able to help during the week when I'm working get him to work... his response we cant buy a car or sell an old 71 we have sitting in the drive, for him bc my attorney drew up the tightest separation orders "and it was so unnecessary"...bc of the orders he can not open any accounts, sell anything, or change the TSP (401K)... He then said he was going to change the amount going into the 401K, I said well, that's exactly why they are in place- so neither of us will do something like that!

Then we got back on track regarding the car, he said you don't know his schedule and you dont have a job so we dont need to talk about it... I reminded him that I'm a planner and I need a plan to know it will work out and again asked if he'd be able to help- use a little sick or annual leave, or adjust his hours
since he's working as much as he wants now... he continued with the talk of I dont understand what you are wanting...I cant say right now if I can- blah blah same lack of parenting crap

I again stated, I just need a commitment from you saying you agree to help... a simple commitment...his response was "what do you mean by commitment?" WAIT FOR IT....


My response "well I know you have a hard time wrapping your mind around the definition of commitment but typically it means when people make a promise they stick to it." He hung up.

He then sent me a text stating, he is not willing to talk to me if I cant be civil. I no longer will put up with snide or derogatory comments from you. When you choose to go that direction, the conversation will end abruptly.


OMG!!! ya know I had a response for this right?!?!

I left him a message stating, "I have held my tongue for a long time, but you just left that wide open- I couldn't resist. I'm very proud of you for putting some boundaries in place. Please understand when you start that looping, none answering, answering with a question stuff I too will end the convo abruptly. I am willing to be civil if you are. I will accept your call to discuss your childs transportation needs when you are willing to talk.


UGH! I thought it was kinda funny... but I guess he's tired of hearing well you made this choice, when he states I don't have anywhere to keep my stuff, I dont have alot of money, it's my house too...etc...

I simply look at him now and think what a selfish buffoon...


OMG! He came to church Sunday bc it was Senior Sunday... The minister was talking to the kids about how sometimes in life things will happen to you, that are totally out of your control. She added as she look at him, "I've sat and listened to women crying bc their H walks out, leaving her to wonder why, what happened, what am I gonna do?" She then tied it back to the kids by saying something like "when you are in those times you are not alone- buy God is walking next to you" IDK how he could have any self respect after that. We go to a small church- many many people know what is happening.

And the PI... I'll let ya know later about that one!

HavingFaith,

I'm puzzled. You know your STBXH prioritizes work over family. What made you think he'd stop doing that now that you are divorcing.

I can actually see why he didn't understand what you wanted from him. For him, he has to meet the demands of the job when they come up. That is his REALITY. Your image of arranging his work schedule around specific family commitments simply DOES NOT COMPUTE for him. Instead, the only thing he can imagine is that on lucky days he will not have pressing work commitments that keep him from driving DS to work, and other other days he will.

I don't say this to defend him. I just see how his thinking works and I believe that he truly doesn't understand what you're asking of him and doesn't not consider it possible.

My advice to you would be to do everything in your power to avoid asking him for anything that isn't part of your official separation or divorce agreement. Don't put yourself through the frustration.

As for getting DS to work, could you make DS responsible for solving that problem? Not that you won't drive him when it's possible. But if he's old enough to hold a job, shouldn't DS be the one to arrange the transportation?

Curious,

You are right, I know that he prioritizes work over family. I have no idea what made me think this would be different. Maybe I was hoping that he'd put the kid and his need first.

You are probably right about how his mind works regarding commitments of work vs. family. To me his priorities are out of whack. I know I cant say anything to make him change it... I know...I have tried... I've told him he's important to us, I need him here... I miss you... I enjoy when you are here and we blah blah... none of those things made a difference- except placed stress on him as if he was in a tug of war between his family and his job... I guess the job won!

I guess his words of "I will not be your dad" from him the night he said he was leaving gives me that hope that he is not a total walk away parent. I guess I was hoping, there was a piece of him that would do these things for his kids.



Regarding the car situation, we had agreed with our son that when he got a job we'd help get a car and he could pay us back. I understand what you are saying about making is DS job to resolve this problem. Distance plays a factor in the job regarding him asking a buddy to drive him. If it was a local job it would be much easier- but its about 30 min away. Regarding DS and his dad, I need to exit here. I see that now. Let DS talk with dad about this.

I do so well when the boys ask me questions about their dad, to say hmmm have you talked with him about this... when I could tear him up to the kids with my words... it is the same thing...

thanks... I know your saying this to help me in the long run... I hate that I am in this place...I am overwhelmed by it all... thanks

I know it's hard. And painful. For you, prioritization is a matter of choice. In your eyes, he has CHOSEN to put job over family. And you're not totally wrong. But I don't think he understands -- in any way -- that he has any choice in the matter. And that, I think, is the source of his frustration with you in the phone call. You were speaking from a perspective that for him, as I said earlier, DOES NOT COMPUTE.

(I've typed that twice now, and both times, I've had to go back and delete an "r" from the end of the word. Apparently I type the word "computer" a lot.)

It will get easier. You're getting used to your own new reality and building your own new pattern recognition. Fortunately for you, you are more adept at that than you're husband. You'll get the hang of it.

You are correct, I do feel like the manner one prioritizes themselves or beliefs is a choice. No one is holding a gun to any ones head and even then there is a choice.

I guess the rubbing point with me and his job has ALWAYS been when he wants to do something, like go in four hours late to have sex with OW he did that. And your right there was probably nothing pressing going on but he accommodated his work schedule to meet his needs.

He does not work a typical desk job that is 8-5. He has much flexibility and a ton of hours he could choose to take off from work, if he wanted.

When I was voicing my concerns during the M, I would express that from my POV it seems that when all the cool stuff that was outside of his normal duties and his working group, his hand popped up to help(like doing surveillance, undercover work, raiding houses). He stated he feels important and needed at work. He was told many times in many different ways he was that here too. He stated (he could have been lying) that he knew this. I understand that he was the sole provider for the family. However, these extra things he did, did not provide one extra penny- nor has it aided in any type of advancement. It was because it is fun.

When we would talk about his job, I'd ask if there was a compromise that could be made. His compromise was "I don't do everything." It wasn't working for me. I told him I felt selfish because I needed more time with him. I felt like I was pulling him away from something he loved- to meet my needs. His ultimate response was, it's not right that I am not looking at the clock thinking its time to come home- I cant wait. He preferred to work.

I still debate in my head is there an OW or was the OW his job.

I sat in Sunday school last week with the topic being a hardened heart. All I could hear was "What did I do to hurt him, to cause his heart to harden towards me?" Was is bc I wasn't believing and trusting him? Was it bc I was asking for more than he could give to allow me to feel safe? What was it? Yes I expressed my hurt and anger to him regarding the A. But honestly, from the time of the A till now the OW contacted him in some way every 6 months, as a check in. This set me back. I explained to him I was having a hard time recovering bc of this. He said he understood. So it was about 1 year ago when she last made a contact. I was honestly starting to trust him. Where I did not feel the need to check up on him.

And then suddenly his behaviors re-emerged. Ugly tones, working alot of hours, running, losing weight, dressing better... I was triggering... he was working alot... I told him I felt alone and threatened by this co-worker... I was scared... I was living in fear... I expressed this to him... his response was trust me and we are just really busy at work...

of course later he states, "well I was choosing to work all those hours bc I didn't want to come home. I didn't want to acknowledge this to myself even."

So I guess to me, he makes these choices. I don't understand how anyone could say that ones actions are not a choice.

When you said
My thinking goes to ok where was I wrong? Where am I off on my thinking here? I dont understand this. I really feel like everything in life is a choice. He did not have to stay at that job. I was willing to downsize to have him with us more. He did not want that. He loves his job.

I dont understand how it is computed differently... maybe another stab at explaining it to me might help.

The hardest part about this whole thing is he made this choice to walk out and no longer try, I had no say. Well I had a say- I dont want this, but it didn't matter. I feel like I am the victim of his choice... I was looking for the compromise- he said he just didn't care any longer.

You take a very logical and analytical approach to the situation. That is how you can perceive your priorities as conscious choices. Many people just don't work that way. They have a reality that suits them, and they don't question it or look at it too hard.

I'm sorry if my remarks made you feel bad or doubt yourself.


It is entirely possible for someone to be addicted to their job (the way a WS is addicted to an OP). And as you know, people will go to incredible lengths to protect their access to the source of their addiction.

No your remarks are not making me feel bad or doubt myself...I dont need anyone to make me doubt myself- I do well enough on my own there...

Hmmm, I take a logical and analytical approach to the situation, really? It has taken me years since the A to work on cognitive thoughts... I believe feelings follow thoughts which are then followed by behaviors...for so long I followed my feelings and that was not working in the M after the A... I had to learn how to sit and think about why I was feeling a certain way- look at all sides of it, the feelings I held were controlling my behavior...

but if I was able to stop the thoughts that caused the feelings, change the thoughts then my actions were different... like if I began feeling isolated... I would say I have done ABCD, we've spent X hours together, we have shared, we are talking I would feel safe, I would relax... but if I did not have those things to draw on then I would not be able to relax... before it was one phone call of I cant be here and I would panic... I did not have that skill


You say many people are do not work that way, how do you see how they work?

Maybe part of my feelings about everything any one does is a choice stems from a book I read in graduate school. Title, Man's Search For Meaning by Vicktor Frankl... It's a great little read... he was a prisoner in a concentration camp, he was able to determine who he thought would survive based on their personal will- what they chose to believe, did they look to the future for what good things could be or dwell on the bad- as they were abused and controlled in every way imagined no one could take away their choice, the thoughts that ran through their minds... at least that's what I got from it...

I guess I read that and decided everyone has a choice, you just have to see life in that manner...

Thank for chatting with me today, you've helped a lonely day pass!

A quick post before I run today... yesterday my youngest stated he wants to live with his dad bc he's more fun... knife in my heart...

my middle son said that will not work bc there is no place for us to stay with him, and it'd be lonely over there bc you'd be by yourself... I talked separately with him and asked if he'd be happier living with his dad- even in the house with me moving- he said no... ok great relief bc I'd died if I lost my kids to him...

My brain knows its party time with dad and work here... but holly cow that heart...

So I've been reading about divorce and how make it work for the kids... one point they make is the friendlier you are the better for the kids... another is when there is discord between the parents the leaving spouse is less likely to stay in contact...

OMG... I don't want my anger to be the cause of my STBXH not calling during the week... so I called him and left him a message that we needed to figure it out for the kids...

He called back...he agreed that he isnt calling bc of the conflict... I again explained that he may catch me on a day I'm feeling mad at him and if it creeps out- let it roll off and talk to the boys...I explained they need him and essentially he is only hurting his relationship with them, it has nothing to do with us... he agreed

OK, on my word I will no longer call him regarding contacting the boys, if I feel the need to do so- I will post here and patiently wait for someone to remind me that this is his relationship with them I have no control over it...

HF

Do NOT believe the garbage about a "friendly" divorce, and do NOT take responsibility for your WH's bad behavior.

The only thing a friendly divorce does is hurt the betrayed spouse and give the kids false hope that you'll get back together.

Yes, CONFLICT hurts the kids, so you must do whatever it takes to end open conflict. For most BSs that means it's time for a Plan B/D. IMO, you need to go as low contact as humanly possible. It will help your personal recovery and the kids will be happier when they don't see your pain or your conflict with your stbxh.

Oh, the torment your kids are going through already.....
To have to spend the day, at that age, thinking of who you want to live with. sad....

Maybe you should tell STBXH that ALL the kids want to come live with him....in his fun fantasy single world!

I know you dont want to lose your kids, and I don't think you will. I really don't think your STBXH would want any of them living with him, that would take away from work time.

I agree about the fantasy of a "friendly divorce" That would be very difficult to do. I think that would send the message that it's "ok " to walk out on your wife and kids, and that everyone can be happy and have a BBQ together.

Your anger, or any emotion should have nothing to do with the way your STBXH acts/or doesnt act towards his kids. He should contact them because he loves them and THEY ARE HIS KIDS.

Maybe women are different, I can't think of anything or anyone that would stop me from being a mom and seeing my kids.


How is the job hunting going?

What I got from the reading is the more amicable the adults are the better adjusted the kids will be versus a civil war breaks out each time he is around... believe me, I know divorce is not a friendly matter- how could it be my STXWH killed our M. Believe me there are no hugs and phone calls to see what's shaking with him. But I will allow him to come over to celebrate our son's graduation with family and friends. He can sulk in a corner like he did at church, for our son's senior recognition celebration- that's fine. I'm not gonna go over and chat it up with him either.

Honestly, I don't know how to handle this situation at all. I don't want him here. He makes me mad bc of his selfish nature. But I love my boys and want their special days to be what they want. I can spend a few hours with him, we have a big house on an acre- there's lots of space here. I believe I've set good boundaries with him at the house- as he doesn't enter without permission, only goes in public areas, and even ask for something to drink. It is as if he is a visitor here not a resident.

I do agree that having him over for a dinner would send a poor message to the kids, which is why I will not do that.

This is the first weekend the kids will not see their dad. It is my weekend and there are no ball games or siblings in town, so I think it will be eye opening for all.

Lgtex-
As far as the job market, I keep putting applications out there. I have a good lead on one job- a couple friends from church work there- one is pretty high up AND her H of 29 years walked out on her about 7 months ago...HA our H even have the same first names and in comparing our stories stated many of the same things... she has put in a good word for me- I hope it pans out...

I may have to start looking outside of my field... I wish I went back to school and became a nurse- there are lots of nursing jobs out there.

I did set up the google calendar, which is a great relief to me. I no longer have to call anyone- H, in-laws etc about scheduling...

My MIL called a bit ago and thanked me again for that...she said it is very easy to work...I told her my STXWH was having a hard time with it and I'd suggest he get her to help him, she laughed and said let him figure it out himself...she doesnt seem to pleased with her son right now!

Lgtex- is your WH still looking for a job?

I am venting here, so I do not call STXWH... I know he's gonna go out...I get that....what husband/dad walks out on his family then sits around his co-workers house all weekend. But I'm so mad right now, he took out 200.00 from the checking account last night. The location of the ATM in a trendy night club area. I'm sitting here telling the kids- we have a new budget we can't blah blah and that jack wagon is out partying it up... WHAT A SELFISH MAN!

I'd love to tell the kids what their dad is up to...let them see his warts- every last one of them...last night my now 12 year old asked why we fought so much when he was in 2nd grade...I just couldn't tell him it's because your jack wagon of a dad slept with someone...he crept into her house in the middle of the night (on his way home from working 4-midnight with local cops) when her kids were asleep to bang her... oh yeah- he'd take you to school in the mornings to swing by her place on the way to work... oh yes this crept into his work day- so then he had to work late- and wasnt home to spend time with you....OMG I'd love to freely say that to him...but it would kill him...

If my oldest had been there he would have sung like a bird (as he was older and realized immediately what the deal was)...

He's such a jack wagon....I will be securing our future... it's not gonna be a pretty sight... I dont understand why judges dont punish these walk away parents heavily...