**edit**

Skip the wheel. It is only a distraction. There is nothing unusual about your situation that MB cannot solve.

If AOs are such a problem that you simply cannot control yourself, then Dr. Harley recommends Anger Management. Markos has an excellent recommendation he can give you if needed. But it really sounds has if your main problems are Demands and DJs. Eliminate those, and AOs will more than likely be gone.

Eliminate the abusive Love Busters by following the program diligently, and neither of you will have anything to fear.

Please help these posters with Marriage Builders concepts! If you can do that, feel free to post. If not, then kindly refrain from posting. Thank you.

So this weekend was awful. There were definitely some fun moments, but the love busters are what stuck out to me the most. I feel like my husband intentionally said and did some cruel things. The good news is last night ended with a positive twist and possible a "break through" with hubby, but honestly I don't know how long it will last. There is a pattern of up and down, up and down, sweet then terrible, sweet then terrible.

Early Friday I will have to say that I had a couple of DJ's that were unintentional and a reaction to my husbands words and behavior. He pointed them out and I profusely said "I'm sorry at least three times" I took your advice Prisca, you said this would go a long way to say "I'm sorry ... I really went into this weekend saying "No matter what we are going to have a good time with no arguments." I WOULD AVOID CONFLICT AT ANY COST (many of you have made that a big "to do") I can honestly say and you can ask Hilltopper that I had zero AO's and tried to diffuse any fights. The huge difference I feel that I see between Hilltopper and I is: I'm taking this advice, learning and applying this information. He still thinks I'm NOT TRYING and says I'm playing the forum. ???? He gets so angry that his thread and I both state that he is impatient. He doesn't see it.

I'm not sure discussing every situation that happened this weekend would be beneficial. There are a few incidents that I will bring up so I can see how else to handle them because I'm not seeing improvements, just patterns.

Along our ups and downs of the entire weekend, I would say forget it, let's move on and have a good time. Later Friday, husband had a a discovery moment where he said I don't like being your "[censored] and doing everything for you. I told him when he got heated to leave our hotel room and take a brisk walk. When he came back I did things without asking him for it, like going to the car and grabbing baby items, he asked me for a few things and I did them etc... He said how don't you feel like a [censored] running around for me? I said "no" I like to do things for you. I can't remember all the details, but he was still in fight mode and things calmed down a little. As the kids were falling asleep and I was cleaning up to go to bed and get ready for the race he asked me if I would give him oral gratification (right after all the LB's and in a disrespectful manner). I told him it would be nice if he asked me tomorrow night in a respectful manner. Then he exploded with "you better get used to me asking because I'm gonna keep asking" and ended the conversation with "you better do something nice for me tomorrow." You know what I said "ok" I sucked up every ounce of pride and said that so I could go to bed peacefully without any fights.

Before I left in the morning I packed all the baby clothes, diaper bag, made bottles. I wrote notes for the children and hilltopper stating "I love you and it would be great to see you at the end of the race and if you can't make it because the baby is grumpy, don't worry" (he came and cheered) I also got the coffee pot ready and made a cute note. The rest of the day was great!!! So many fun things to do, family, we enjoyed each other's time, etc ...

Then at the end of the night right when we are going to have UA time we had another ugly conversation. To make a long story short he got disappointed, angry, etc... The LB's and DJ's were flowing from "you use excuse after excuse, blah blah, who can I go out with right now because I have no life, your not doing any more runs again. Here, instead of getting enraged (like I normally would) I agreed no more runs and sat listening and telling him I'm not going to fight with you. I AVOIDED CONFLICT AT ALL COSTS. He admitted to jabbing me and intentionally hurting me. Even after all this he ended the night with an incident (no need to discuss details) I told him was incredibly mean and he denied it was on purpose. Later after a couple hours of sleeping he apologized.

Mother's day started out great and I believe things were read into and another ugly conversation began. I literally was felt defeated and destroyed because the entire weekend had been like this. I finally grabbed him and told him I CANNOT meet your needs if I don't know what you want. I can't see our marriage going forward without this. You asked me to give you affection then to focus on AO and not fighting. I believe I'm doing everything he asks of me and he DOES NOT ??? I told him that he NEEDS to ask me questions, ask me to do things and PLEASE not assume how I am feeling: ask and I will tell. This finally led to a happy conversation.

So you guys tell me what I need to do because I avoided fights, held in AO and it led to me sucking in verbal abuse and me feeling like a wimp. Yes I was happy it didn't escalate to a blood bath. And believe me I'm no saint when I want to fight, but I avoided all this and I feel worse.

Last night ended great and I loved that my husband said he is beginning to understand. I just feel like I don't want to set myself up again for more explosive behavior. I get excited to have great days and new beginnings then I feel let down.

Any opinions after I just wrote the longest post ever.

By the way I need to go back to my workbook because I think my number 1 lover ranking of love busters would be dishonesty (dishonesty in the emotional sense, like feelings). Would that be right or would Selfish demands or Disrespectful judgments be my number one?

I am so sorry to hear that the weekend was so awful

You feel worse because of his abuse, not because you did anything wrong. Holding back your own anger and protecting him even though he was abusing you was far from wimpy! You did great not engaging him and refusing to fight!

The two of you have developed NASTY habits and cycles. You have taken the first step in breaking those habits by refusing to engage in the fight and retaliate with your own DJs and AOs.

You are cleaning up your own side of the street. It's up to Hilltopper to work on his DJs and AOs (and he probably will be called out on those, so don't worry).

You are doing great, Grace. Don't listen to his DJs. It's going to get better, as long as you both keep working the program.

Grace,

Sending hugs to you right now. I want to take time to respond fully to your post about last weekend so forgive me for the delay. Short response is that you did what you were supposed to do, and no, you're not supposed to just "suck up" verbal abuse and I want to give you some tips that have worked for me.

Hang in there, it's a long road but you both are making progress quickly.

There are no right or wrong answers to the ranking of Love Busters. Only you can say which Love Busters hurt you the most.

Most of your complaints about Hilltopper, though, seem to center around DJs. What does Hilltopper do that hurts you the most? Whatever that is, it is the number one Love Buster for you.

Disrespectful Judgement/Demand

Does he allow you to say no? If not, it is a demand.

Disrespectful Judgement

Dishonesty

Demand

Disrespectful Judgement

I'm not sure what you mean by this one. You feel like he doesn't pay attention to you?

Demand

It looks like most of what you're hurt by are Disrespectful Judgements and Demands, with some Dishonesty.

Grace,

Your husband behaved horribly last weekend. I've been in your shoes before and can empathize with the way you're feeling. In the face of such terrible AO's and DJ's you did great in not reacting and feeding into a potential fight. Your husband seems to be aware this behavior is unacceptable but has not yet mastered the ability to control himself.

My own husband has issues with AO's and DJ's and has worked so hard over just the last month to curb that behavior and I've seen incredible improvements that make me feel so proud of him. Initially, like your weekend situation, I sucked it up the AO's and DJ's. I was never completely honest with him about how it hurt me and how deeply it damaged our relationship and my own confidence. When I finally realized just how important Radical Honesty is, we were on the verge of separation. We talked through it over the course of two days and I vowed I wouldn't take that kind of treatment lying down anymore. My marriage was worth saving but not if the AO's and DJ's continued and I had to be completely honest with my husband to make changes happen. I had to truly "feel" this realization in my soul before I started standing up for myself in a positive way.

My method, when hubby starts with an AO or DJ is to make a simple statement such as "Please don't start an argument by making a sarcastic comment". He will usually respond by voicing his true concern in a more respectful way. However, if he doesn't and continues to be hurtful, I will say something along the lines of "the way you are talking is disrepectful and we should take a break until we can deal with this in a better way" and then I will physically remove myself from the area we were in. In the past I've also sometimes sent him a text to tell I love him and that I love myself and our relationship too much to allow this kind of behavior to continue. Initially he didn't respond well. He would make excuses for his behavior that would be easy to refute in writing via text. It's hard for me to handle face to face confrontation so this was an ideal way for me to handle the situation in constructive, non-reactive sort of way. I think the words I used that really struck home with him after a conflict was that "I know he is a good, loving and kind person. I was merely respecting myself enough to stand up to his poor behavior in a time of stress."

The AO's and DJ's your husband commits do not make him a bad person, it just means he has new skills to learn. This can take some time, but you don't have to take it lying down either. As long as your method is respectul and loving, it can be beneficial to your relationship.

One other thought, I'm curious if you've gone into detail with Hilltopper as to what EXACTLY he needs to do to meet your emotional needs. I know Affection tops your list, but what exactly is affection to you? I'm concerned he's not doing the right things and I'm not sure if they've been properly communicated.

You know what would be awesome?

Not talking about hill, like, at all on grace's thread.

It's about you, grace. Let's leave hill out of it.


Dude does a fine job of digging his own holes.

Let's not stoke the argument fires.

Welcome to the "keep grace's side of the street clean" thread.

Grace - checking in with you to see how you're doing.

I really haven't focused on my EN's because honestly I just wanted to make it through the day without fighting. I wanted him to stop trying to meet my EN's because after he would have a certain expectation or feeling of resentment.

I just got an email from hubby on his plan on how he will stop the love busting on his end. Love it!! I just sent an email back that I would make a plan for myself as well. Tonight I intend on going back through the books and reading up on EN's and what I truly and SPECIFICALLY find as an EN. I don't think there's anything worse than not knowing what your supposed to be doing specifically in the eyes of your spouse. I just read back to my opening post and read my initial take on EN's. YIKES! It was really written before I had truly decided to take on MB and understood what they were. I find it a little funny how they were full of resentment, hurt and countless LB's. This will be revised

Also a better me,


I found the similarities in your story encouraging and hopeful. Did you say things have been good for a month? I expect bumps in the road. This is where I hope both our plans will be implemented and not just pushed away.

Umm, not too sure? Was this directed at me?

This is great to hear, Grace

Dr. Harley has some forms in the workbook to help you make your Love Buster plan. Check them out. Which Love Busters does Hill believe you need to concentrate on?

A great suggestion that SexyMamaBear gave to me a few months back on filling out your EN questionnaire: Take your top 5 or 6 EN and write 10-15 different ways you would like those needs met (each EN will probably need its own page). Be positive and leave the lovebusters out. Start each line with "I'd love it if ..." or "I love it when ..." Show him, in a positive and respectful way, how you like your EN met.

You've come a long way, Grace.

I completely understand this reaction. It was my reaction too for a long, long time. I thought, "why bother asking or talking about what makes me happy when it will only cause problems down the road?"

When I started reading here a year ago I was in awe of the simplicity and common sense structure to the MB program, and while I wanted the benefits that came with fully embracing MB, I wasn't completely willing to expose myself and my feelings to my husband. This, I learned only recently, is a huge mistake. Radical Honesty is ESSENTIAL to marital success but it was the HARDEST concept for me to embrace. I'm a conflict avoider, my mother (now divorced from my father) is a conflict avoider. It wasn't until I came to terms with the fact I was no longer willing to live in a relationship where I compromised my feelings and my needs that I truly embraced Radical Honesty.

I know you want to hide your needs in attempt to avoid Hill's outbursts and hurtful words, but he can't fill your love bank to the point where you are willing to reciprocate filling his needs unless he knows SPECIFICALLY what you need in order to feel loved. Hill is wrong to AO and DJ you by yelling, calling names and telling you you're not trying hard enough. This is a problem HE has to fix and he knows it. You just have to decide how YOU want to handle yourself in these situations when AO's and DJ's happen. Like HHH said, don't worry about Hill, just do what you need to do to create the marriage you want.

On a side note, for a while I was trying to figure out what I though my hubby's top EN was. He's a sexual creature and I always though it was SF. But after I found confidence in myself and truly desired to risk my inner self by being Radically Honest, I'd always find us hitting the same road bumps and progress was slower. I know now that his biggest EN is Honesty and Openness. By not sharing myself with him completely I was making it impossible to love me fully. This last month has been so different and my heart feels full and there is almost no anxiety choking me. I feel so different about my husband because of his change of behavior and I find that more of my thoughts consider him and I feel loving and affectionate and I honestly feel my libido returning.


I think this is FANTASTIC. I'm so glad Hill has taken everyone's advice and put his plan down in writing. Writing for me solidifies and clarifies what is in my head and my heart. Hopefully this will do the same for him as well as you. What are your ideas for your own plan? What Love Busters do you think you are most guilty of and what do you think you should put in place to avoid them?


Again, this is FANTASTIC. I think "specifics" regarding your ENs (as well as Hill's) has been a critical missing piece to this puzzle. And don't criticize yourself for your initial post and what you thought were your EN's. What's important is that you've learned so much already and you are working through the hurt you've felt. THAT is what's important.


I always find others stories helpful, and of course those with similarities even more so. I'm glad sharing my own has been helpful. Yes, things have been good for a month. We've both made considerable strides. We've had moments that were less than perfect where angry, hurtful things were said. I'd be lying if I didn't ask myself why exactly I kept trying when we could go from so good to so bad in a matter of moments. But after sleeping on those bad times and discussing what went wrong the next day, I felt like we grew closer and more "light bulbs turned on" if you know what I mean.

I have to remind myself regularly that no matter what we learn or how "good we get at MB", we're still human and we're going to make mistakes. What matters is at this point I KNOW we both feel EQUALLY committed to this relationship and I'm not proud to say that I have been the one behaving like renter for too long so I had to come up to his level. What I am proud to say is that my hubby, regardless of his flaws, is actually a "natural MBer" so to speak. So much of what he has always done in our relationship follows MB guidelines. Where I thought I'd be the "teacher" (a DJ actually), I am the student more often.

I know I'm rambling but I guess what I'm trying to say is love each other, learn from each other, look at each other in new ways. Thank each other for what they do right and encourage them to be better when they are wrong. Don't give up because I've been where I think you guys are now and it can get better... SO much better. Just do the work. FEEL what you learn and FEEL yourself grow as a better spouse in your HEART. It's an amazing feeling I've only had the privilege of experiencing for a short time. You WILL get there.

It could be!

In your thread, what is more important;

What Love Busters your H is committing, or the Love Busters you commit to him in return?

It's almost a reflex reaction to react to his LBs with LBs of your own. We all do this. The trick is... to knock it off.

You are improving on this! By not engaging with him when he starts in, you are refusing to LB in response to his LBs. And that should be the focus of your thread; how do you meet his needs, how do you avoid LBs.

Now, you stated that you "felt like a wimp" because you then soaked up some verbal abuse.

How do you approach this without an LB?

Simple; "I no longer feel safe in this conversation." And you walk away.

Breaking down his Love Busters in your thread... not so productive. He simply needs to stop doing them. He has his own thread for that.

So what help do you need avoiding your own LB behaviors?