Yeah we're very big on books for the kids. We read to them as soon as they're receptive - even just alphabet/number/color/shape books are fine, just to get them used to the idea. DS7 is now a voracious reader; his teacher actually uses reading time as a reward for him. DS3 will bring out a stack of books at bedtime, and DD1.5 is getting into it too. I will miss the day when they won't want to be read to anymore.

My parents never played with us (my two sisters and I). I asked my mom about it a few years ago and she said it wasn't a parent's job to play with the kids - feed, clothe, bathe, cuddle, talk to, provide with toys, educate, guide, protect, love - yes, simply play with - no. Mom was of the mind that the adults need to be focused on doing the adult things to keep the household going. DS7 was about 18 months old and was after us incessantly to play with him; that's when I asked my mom about it. I had never ever thought of it as unusual or troubling before that.

My W's parents never played with her or her sister either because they were working all the time. My W also projects her issues with her distant father on me sometimes (not a DJ, she openly admits to it).

So I am conflicted about whether or not I should play with the kids. I wasn't brought up that way and I seem to have turned out okay. On the other hand I want to be a "good dad" but am trying to sort out exactly what that means - kind of like the "good man" thread. I've always been the sort to independently synthesize my belief system, so I'm not going to accept the mass media definition, but I can't base it all on how my dad was either. I love and miss him dearly but he did have his faults, and this is a different age than what I grew up in.

Funny, everyone I know tells me I'm a "good dad", but I don't usually feel like one.

WRT your DD13 - I've heard that's a tough age. One foot in childhood and the other in young adulthood, and they seem to lean one way or the other depending on which way the wind blows. Does she like to run or play sports? Video games? Board games?

Wait, I know! You guys could have a Twilight movie marathon! We need a 'sparkle' smiley...

Oh, God. That one W can share w/ the girls. I suffer through it to enjoy it w/ W (subconsciously, I hear Mel wagging her finger).

I think that the problem is when you get into that mindset; "The time comes to put away childish things."

Play is an important part of human development - we learn to problem solve, interact, plan.

I'm thinking it doesn't have to be too crazy. She may be a teenage girl, but I think she's neither too old, nor to girly, to go and play catch with dad.

I understand the struggle, and I think that a lot of fathers go through it. We want to be good fathers, but we usually only have our own father (or lack of), or our grandfathers. Sometimes, they aren't the best models, either.

I think you should treat your 13yo girl like you want boys to treat her--be interested, find out what she likes, and do that with her. I liked to dress up and attend plays at that age, and also goof off at Dunkin Donuts in grown-up clothes.

Don't try to do the things she likes to do with her girlfriends. That's just weird.

Right?

She's hit that "too-cool teenager" stage. What she likes to mine 'ol Dad for is jokes and music.

She's always been a tad precocious... always a challenge. The opposite of the younger two.

Here is how I 'play' with my kids.

Oldest two daughters-take them to concerts, movies, occassional trips to the mall for some shopping. Oldest daughter loves mangas and comic books (which I do also) so we go to comic book shops together. We also play video games together. My oldest daughter always tags along when I play indoor soccer.

Son 8-wrestle, play video games, build legos, go poster shopping, play catch, play soccer

Daughter 4-tea time, build legos, help dress dolls, and she loves it when I watch iCarly with her

Son 2-loves to wrestle and he loves to sit on riding toys and be pushed around the house

Son 8 likes fishing and camping but I hate both. Mom takes him fishing. I refuse to go camping unless it's at the summer lake house (which isn't really camping).

Do you have the xbox? Get Dance Central and Kinect! It's a big hit with my daughter (15) and niece (13). I did not think I would like it because I am not a big dancer...but it is so much fun...

Both of my older DD's LOVED to wrestle when they were little. DD11 still loves to. DD13 is the challenge.

I just don't "get it." She's "too cool." (or girly, or something).

Really lovin this Thread now, getting down to the real man stuff we all struggle with. I can relate to many of the issues disscussed here.

Not feeling nurturing enough, working to many hours just making ends meet, how it was with my Dad and how times have changed. All of them.

I made a comment earlier about blaming the media, but it was only general about motivation really, as in what can be our motivating personal peer factors and influences around us daily when we are likely to have our "Ah-ah!" moments. That was really motivational influences in advertising and how we seem to be bombarded with guidance in 500 different directions from 1 Million gurus out here.

But maybe this point I have noticed is being overlooked. Just an observation I have noticed. Some what I would call "enemys" to the nuclear family, and maybe somewhat linked to the book and idea of ,"Plantation america".

Young people since sometime in the 80s have been able to get into credit debt so deep,(18 years old) that they will be paying off that stupid stereo system they bought for thier crib until way past time to accually buy a crib for thier child at 25.

I remember when I was a kid, if two parents worked, they had extra money. now if they don't work, they have a hard time surviving.

What has happened here? It seems that the cost of living has rose way above the average wage increase. Inflation has skyrocketed, and the two income household is now the norm.

We can blame some of the problem, some, on the poor choices we make, but there also must be some loss of respect for the average middle class family across the board.

The wisdom we were taught as children, and the words of, "Work hard to provide and it will work out", is not working, but we are working longer hours for less money at the expense of the moral statutes we are trying to work for.

The truth remains the same though, as the wolf is allways at the door, seeking to destroy and cull out the weak. The family is still the weak point that is allways attacked, as the wolf seeks out the young and weak in this battle of "survival of the fittest"

I myself am not a Machevelian<sp> type, and I don't beleive in "the end justifies the means" I chose to work hard and learn from my mistakes, but it was a challange to be with and try to build a family with someone who was, lets say, less able to hold those standards. Its fine that there are people out there that sold, "Pet Rocks" in the 70s and they did it because they needed to provide for thier familys, but thats not me, I can't function that way, and I didn't believe in creating an enviroment that made me that desparate either.

Its important that you pick someone with the same work ethic, if you want to succeed with a family. My late W was one who would cut someones throat, then justify it later, and play dumb about it. "Well of course it was nessesary at the time and "God", understands".

Understanding and self-delusion at the expense of accountability being two different things. You don't create a situation that demands desparate emergency help and then expect someone to bail you out. But thats a whole different subject..

But it relates to some degree. What is it we really need? What part of our soul did we sell to elevate ourselves above others? To some percieved place in our own minds? Where do we get the idea we wont be safe or happy unless we have X or Y, or have the wife with the big boobs or the husband with the big bucks? What form of insecurity has taken the average working class couple over?

Now we work and still do not appreciate what we have, wanting more and more, because we are afraid of being fools, and not getting our share, when we have it all right in front of us allready many times.

The bombardment of advertising and media crap seeming to point to making our life better can be so hypnotysing, and we are fighting a losing battle with our kids too, because what is important forced on them every day, from there peers and the TV, as we are working to provide sometimes the basic needs, and are not there to help them think and make good choices.

I fell into this trap also, but allways told my kids the truth, and because we did not prosper monitarily, they were forced to think and make judgements. They are good kids but still have to survive in the world we are leaving them, and I can only pray that the standards I did manage to live for and stand for, will keep them safe and help them make good choices.

I would rather that I has made better choices, and refused to go along with compulsion of making the grade, or let my late W and her issues get in the way and give me an excuse for working so many hours, and just surviving. It what I was taught, ingrained into what it was to be a man, to an extreme that doesn't work even at a basic level of survival anymore in our culture.

The hope is that we can adapt, and not lose the basic need to work for our families, without neglecting them, or missing the time we have to enjoy them. Its still work, as defined as something you must learn how to do, with instruction and humility, from an authority that knows how to do it. A Master so to speak, a teacher, and to let them have the authority as you trust them. Those rewards are great, and sometimes cannot even be measured in human terms, certainly not in monitary terms, even though we will allways try.

So What is that authority? Does our leadership in this country exemplify it? Who or what do we turn to and believe in? I don't know the practical political answer, but I know my personal answer, and there will allways be men out here who will believe that they are supposed to work, and thats right of course. Lets hope they remember what they are working for, and what is really preciuos in life...People.

Its said that a boys first GF is thier Mom, and that DD need a lot of the same treatment from thier Dad to develop in how they should be treated.

I know my Dad messed up my sisters life, even though my sister is an awesome survivor, she could have done so much more with her life.

Now if I am anything as a man, and I am not talking about work ethic, I am talking about socially and morally, because both my parents were workers, I give credit to my Mom.

But my life was unbalanced, because we need both parental roles in place to grow up healthy.

My DD is pretty well balanced in her relationships with guys, and my DSs seem to be confused and somewhat afraid. Its just how it worked out. I am there for them and constantly available to help, because you never stop being a parent, just like God never stops being there for me. All I can do is give them the truth, and hope they see it..

I agree with CWMI, be the man you want her to end up with, and the boy you would want her to play with. I don't have a problem with playing anything with my DGD, and I go down to her level, finding what she is into interesting as I can, but I don't give up my position of authority, she knows I am the boss and she counts on that also.

HHH, I just noticed you have 3 DDs, you poor man lol.

My DGD is a "girly girl" and her Mom, my DD, was a Tomboy. It funny to us all, as DGD also has some Tomboy attributes, and my DD insisted she have a "toolbox" also, because she doesn't want her DD typecast.

Waiting for the day when DGD,3, is in the back yard blowing up the dolls and princesses with some kinda alien "death-ray". She allready flies around the yard with her electric fourwheeler,(Barbie of course) with amazing skill we can guess comes from her Daddy the BMX dude.

It wonderful watching her grow up, having all the things I wanted for my DD, and couldn't afford. But yet I find myself useful as DD parent and DGD grampa.

Three DDs, well I have heard this is tough to handle, with all the emotional stuff. Far as I can see they are blessed to have you as thier Daddy.

OK Man hug I guess. If thats allowed on this thread. Lol

HHH aint the only one with three daughters. I have 2 teenage daughters...13 and 15. And the 3rd being 4.

Yeah but I don't feel sorry for you...

Seriously though, I read what you do with your kids too, and I was jealous...OK..not really, I thought it was cool.

I only had one DD, and she was tough while yet being smart and sensitive. I don't have a clue to how it would be with 3. My DD is also a looker like her Mom, but reminds me of my Mom also, and my sister.

What an awesome gift of responsibility it is to have a child, and test our meddle as a man. Started with me at 19, and it has allways been my biggest priority to be a good husband and father when the time came to be. The time is when they are born though, and it becomes about them untill they are on there own.

Now at 54, I am tested with letting them go, and still I am allways around to help where I can. You never stop worrying about them, and never want them to worry about you at the same time. So its important that you keep going and set examples for them still, as I am working on.

You never stop being a Father, and thats what they count on, even if they don't admit it or see it, until they have their own.

KT,

I have heard it said, that if there is one member of the two that is gonna play the most important role in raising the children, as in stability, it is the father.

I am talking about stability, ability to survive, strength and security, protection and inner emotional issues.

I can only think that it is true because if we can keep our stuff together, the example is strongest.

We are the strong ones physically, and the aggressors naturally speaking. If we find them important enough to go after and love and care for, then there is love in action.

(This is why God is refered to in the masculine sense btw, because he goes after us to restore us and teach us when we screw up)

Of course there are women who display those masculine traits more than men do also. Maybe that is because of the humility accepted more easily with them, but it is a powerful force none the less.

Hats off to you KT, and any father willing to serve thier children and to provide them with life in every sense.

Ok two teenage gurls? My God I have no Idea..

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Sorry you don't know obscene content when you see it.

Hope this doesn't get me kicked off the guy thread, but I gotta admit that D14 the one who was able to get the part reattached. She could get her head underneath the console to see where the missing part fit into 2 holes in the fixture. So the good news is that my cup holder is good as new!

The other good news is that while I was admiring her handiwork, I discovered there is a power plug all the way down at the bottom of the dash by the floor. So now my 3 way 12v power adapter does does not have to plug into the ashtray socket. So it no longer blocks the pile of quarters in the ashtray. Win - win.

Ah, yes - the simple, yet effective, power of a woman.

Why should this get you kicked off the "guys thread?"

To me, part of being a man is being able to admire someone else's work and skill, being able to accept when you're wrong, and knowing when to be silent when you really want to blurt something out (I'm still working on this one).

Being a guy doesn't have to mean always being right, always being No. #1, and always being stoic, unfeeling or uncaring.

Being a man means being comfortable in one's own skin. Being a man means not having to live one's life trying to live up to someone else's expectations.

Those accessory ports can be weird, though. Some of them are not switched with the ignition, so anything with a draw will continue to draw even when the car is off.

I had a radio adapter for our MP3 players in my 'Gator that did that, and I just didn't get why my battery kept draining.

I unplugged the radio adapter, no more battery drain.