No, sir, that is not what he said in the previous quote:

In the radio show he said specific details such as sexual positions etc may not help recovery.
However the betrayed spouse has a right to ask anything.

Exactly. That contradicts the following quote:

"the details of what took place"

How would YOU define the word 'what'?

If you listen to MB radio, Dr Harley is not that dogmatic, while he has a central philosophy he understands that the variation in personality can determine how much detail is needed. He also said that recovery can be difficult for people with detailed and long memories.

For some men what went on sexually, positions, frequency, etc will determine if they want to continue the marriage, or if not asked will lead to a long marriage filled with doubt and mistrust.

God Bless
Gamma

oh, ok...I think I understand.
Sometimes the details should be shared, other times they shouldn't be. We wouldn't want to be all dogmatic and all.

Really, wilderness; why are you making such an issue of those words?

"The details of what took place" does not say "what sexual acts took place and in what positions", but it does not exclude your asking about those things if they are relevant to you. Some spouses would want to know if a particular act took place because, for example, this was denied during the marriage. A spouse might want to know if the unfaithful spouse had unprotected sexual intercourse because that shows the level of recklessness, risk or even devotion that might have existed between the affair partners. It would certainly be worth finding out the extent of sexual contact in order to determine whether STD tests were necessary.

Some of "the details of what took place" of my H's affair were very specific to his affair, made possible by the fact that both he and OW travelled in Europe for their jobs. My H was able to tell me that he was travelling to a European country for work and I never thought to question this. However, on some occasions, the truth was that he was accompanying OW while she travelled for her work - he was taking leave from his job. My H was also able to stay overnight in OW's house when the perfect conditions took her H and kids away (separately) all at the same time.

He was able to take day-trips to Brussels from London by train, telling me that he would be in conference a lot that day (and I am often, too) and he would come home just a bit late that evening, and I never suspected he wasn't at his desk all day. Once I found out those details I was able to monitor his daily travel to work and verify that he was there.

Those details were important to me because they showed the levels to which he went to deprive me and the kids of the care he owed us. They also showed the accountability gaps that needed to be filled in order for me to be protected. Those kinds of details were, for me, "the details of what took place".

Some spouses spend money on OPs and we have a few cases where one affair partner borrowed money from the other. The betrayed spouse needs to know if OP owes them money or is even threatening to sue for money owed to them. If the affair took place in the marital home or in the holiday home, the betrayed spouse would want to move or sell the holiday home. If "best friends" gave shelter to the affair, the BS would want to know this and avoid those "friends" in future.

For you the details might be sexual positions, frequency etc. You might be trying to gauge whether to put your heart into recovery or whether to leave. On the show last week, Dr Harley said "not so much" to the question of whether these are details that every spouse needs to know. He did not say "do not ask"; "do not be told". He was trying to warn spouses of the possibilities of flash-backs and graphic movies of the infidels having sex - something that could hinder recovery. Someone like you considering recovery needs to know that flashbacks are a nasty possibility. Wouldn't you want to know full information of what to expect in recovery? Well, Dr H has told you, and you can now make your own decision. But his words in that article were not advising you to ask the details of sexual acts. Basic comprehension skills suggest that the extent of what you need to know is up to you.

Sugar,
I think my family doctor was correct when she said STD tests are always necessary and to not trust a wayward spouse and risk a health problem.

Ironically, I never did get tested.
I will call a clinic today.

They wouldn't be necessary if the partners only ever had internet sex. That was the kind of exception that I was thinking of. Once again you are focusing on a detail in order to have the last word...

I'm not trying to focus on a detail or have the last word How can you trust someone to only have Internet sex?
They could be lying and the person could have aids

Right...the doctor wants to have it both ways. He wants to say that it is the right thing to do to talk about the details of the affair, yet simultaneously that it is the wrong thing.

It can't be both.

That's baloney. You are not too good at nuance, are you? He was referring to CERTAIN and SPECIFIC details, such as sexual positions, etc. NOT to details about times, dates, and everything else. Some BS's have a hard time recovering when they go too deep on the details. Others have a hard time when they don't go that deep. It is just something to be aware of.

Show me where in that quote, the term 'what took place' was equivocated by Dr. Harley. If you can't do this, it is clear that Dr. Harley is trying to have it both ways.

We can read both quotes and see that you don't get nuance. It is clear to everybody else so maybe you need to use more latitude in your thinking?

The BS gets to control what questions get asked.

Thus the BS gets to control the level of detail by the questions that he asks.

I have read where the rare BH upon hearing his WW admitting to an affair only ask the WW is the affair over and are you staying. Where upon the WW says yes and yes. Then the WW is left going bonkers because her BH will not ask any more about the affair or talk about it any more. The WW worries that her BH not wanting to talk will stop him from healing and recovering the marriage with her. This minimal need for affair info is what was right for that BH.

Then you have a BH that has to have everything. Have WW write an affair timeline, Read every affair texts, emails, see photos, videos, cross examine their WW then re cross examine their WW to make sure the story as it is re told does not change.

In each extreme and in anywhere in between the BH is controlling how much detail is revealed by his WW.

The rule a BH must follow is that once a question has been answered by the WW the BH can not unlearn what was revealed.

So the BH is best to move slowly. This is why affair talk can not be done in one hour or one day. Once everything has been asked and explained for clarification the affair talks need to end.

Except that is not what Dr. Harley said in his radio program.

You love to argue, don't you? Is that why you can't have a civil conversation with your ex wife and her family? Is that why you got a divorce? Because you're a hot head and she wasn't doing exactly what you wanted, they way you wanted it so you dumped her?

You might want to rethink the need to work on yourself before stomping around and demanding that everyone else change to accommodate you. It's clear you have some work to do and it starts with owning up to your part in the mess that your family has become.

I had absolutely ZERO to do with her lies, deceipt, cheating and false accusations. That's not the way that it works. We are responsbile for our decisions and actions in this world.

Did you hear what Dr Harley said in his radio programme?

If you heard it, do you accept it?

If you don't accept it, what do you want to do now?

Why are you here arguing this? What's the point? You can accept what he has said or reject it.

Sorry for the T/J, MarkSaySay--
Zibbles, well done. I wanted to say the same thing, but I've already burned my bridges to Wilderness land...I'm not sure but I think it was when I said "Gee, and I wonder why she doesn't want to remarry you".



Carry on MSS

The point of the matter is that he is not consistent when it comes to this issue, not whether or not I accept it. I have no way of knowing what his true policy is on details.