It's been a weird week and a half overall because I hurt my back and there was really a limit to what I could do. This past Friday through probably Tuesday morning were interesting. Up's and downs. H had several pity parties for himself and wasn't making it that enjoyable to be in his company. I empathized with him, made conversation, made dinner and tried to lift the mood.

In my opinion he tried to start quite a few fights with me and I respectfully told him. Of course H disagrees with me. I feel like he first tells me one thing he would like me to do and then lectures me and drags out an extra long conversation about nothing positive that had anything to do with the first complaint. This leads to nothing positive or resolved, pretty much just tension. After this I feel like I'm always the one who has to reset us and say ok let's have fun, let's not fight, let's start fresh. He has admitted it's hard for him to reset and were working on this.

Huge complaint on my end is that if he says or insinuates I'm not trying one more time I think my heads going to start spinning. He threw it in my face that he was working so hard by being on the forums, reading up on things, blah blah .... blah... and I'm not on the forums enough and I only post once a day, blah blah blah ... (last week was survival mode with my back and trying to do daily routines) Might I add this all happened after we got our two new books in the mail and I told him I was excited about reading HNHN for parents. I did get an apology after he realized I was upset about it.

Well after all this crap we've had a couple of really good nights together. We filled out some of our notebook. We took a great walk and picked up stuff to BBQ from the local grocery store and bought coffee for the walk back. We played scrabbled and I finally kicked his butt two days in a row!! And he got his SF. I initiated the past two nights of SF which he has always complained about in the past. And that's the update for the most part that I can remember sticking out in my mind.

Is there any plan, even a tentative one, with regard to Dr Harley's advice in the works?

If so, what is it? If not, why not?

Remember, Dr. Harley said that UA is the key. You had a few good nights together in a row -- great! You are beginning to fill each others' love banks.

Focus on that.

You ARE trying. Most of us can see that Hilltopper is scared, which is why he is making those demands and DJs about you not trying hard enough. Now, that fear doesn't justify his abuse. But this is part of empathizing with him. Understand that he is scared. And continue doing the program -- eventually, he will see the results of your efforts and calm down.

Spend your UA time meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs (affection, SF, conversation, and RC), and get 15 hours a week for a few weeks, and THEN see how your love bank is doing. I imagine you are going to be in a much better place

Questions:
1. Are you using the love buster forms to inform each other of love busters instead of trying to talk about them face to face?
2. How does next week's UA schedule look? Do you have 15 hours planned?
3. Have you redone your ENQ and given it to Hilltopper?

Grace ... how's it going? We want to help you have the marriage of your dreams. Please stop in every now and then and let us help

Some days are great, some days are three steps back.

I don't fell like H is being honest with himself, let alone me. H really believes all the fault is mine. Well after this weekend I have become a little resentful after rereading through my thread and finding little change. Every time I have tried really hard at working things out there is always a fight, so when I don't try there is silent tension but at least there is no fighting.

H pretty much got loaded full of wine and beer from Friday through Monday. H knows this is a huge turn off and I become unattracted to him. This has been a huge complaint of mine for the past several years. And before anyone goes there, no he is not an alcoholic. I like to have fun too, but he's just so overboard a lot of the times. I really didn't say too much because it was the long weekend with friends and I knew there was incredible stress going on in his work life. So I've been trying to empathize and care.

Well more work stress occurred on Tuesday and I checked in with him continuously all day via text, phone calls and ended up asking my folks to watch the kids for a few hours so he could destress. When he arrived home he bought yummy groceries and of course more wine. ??? So my first words were pretty much - Umm were not drinking again tonight. He got mad and fired back with yes I am and was angry that I didn't just give him a hug instead of pointing out the obvious of wanting to get loaded. We then began a long discussion about the drinking. My idea of UA does not include getting hammered, yes a couple of glasses is good for one night here and there ... I think he may have gotten the point now.

So H always complains about me not wanting to have UA time, what?? I set up about 95% of what we do and get babysitters. PS I found another babysitter (friends older daughter) that I am comfortable with. It also strikes me funny that my H gets incredibly flustered with the baby after 30 minutes and expects me to be ultra comfortable leaving her with others if he can't even handle baby.

H also has complained about me doing projects, gardening, running, etc ... What about when I don't stay up late with him, he still stays up and drinks or does his own form of independent behavior? H has been upset in the past because I do projects around the house. Well he's always been mean about things if he does do something for me and obviously doesn't enjoy doing them. H gets mad when I ask for things and I've now tried to not to ask for so much help. I just know what I want and I can be persistent when I need help or need things done around the house. H says he doesn't like to ask for things, but is that my fault?
I tell him to ask and I enjoy doing things for him and I certainly don't put a disdainful face on when I do things for him. A lot of my IB behavior for projects/fix it's around the house are partly because H gets so mad and wants nothing to do with them. So I just do them myself. Let's just say a lot more things bother H and get under his skin. While I have a "thick skin" as my H would say and I don't tend to down in problems or let things get to me. Having a hard time right now. Getting sick of being a punching bag. Although last night turned around and became a quite pleasant dinner with scrabble and conversation to follow.

tgrace, according to Dr Harley, he'd like to see you getting the UA time in (20 hrs for troubled marriages) and then see what complaints you have about each other. So let's start with that.

Have you sat down with HT at, say, the beginning of the week and scheduled the UA time for the whole week as you were advised by Mel and myself many many pages ago?

How many hours a week did you spend together for the, say, last two weeks? What did you do during the UA time? be specific and list it out, M - date night, 3hrs T - 1.5 hrs, scrabble & conversation, etc.

If you haven't can't lay it out because it hasn't been that much of a priority, then that's what the problem is IMHO.

Grace,

I can really identify with your situation--I feel you. As I read your posts I can see myself in you.... I could so identify with your post where you were each waiting for each other to talk first.

I'm new here and some people are really going to be surprised to hear me say this, but this is what I really believe. MB is like a mirror to look at ourselves in. If our clothes are a mess, will we see it if we are turning the mirror to look at someone else? The best way to make things better is to keep that mirror on you.

Once it was brought to my attention what I was doing, I've taken immediate steps to start working on my LB's and guess what? My husband has automatically started working on his--even without being out here on this forum. He even came in and helped me with the dishes yesterday without me even asking! Do I expect everything to be perfect all of the time? Of course not. Did you know that it takes at least 21 days to make a new habit? Well, our old habits take time to break--and we should expect relapses. Just don't give up.

Hilltopper seems to be a lot like me--very emotional--when I feel stressed, a hug from my husband after an especially stressful day at work really helps. It's like refuge from this craziness we call life, you know?

Is the alcohol a way that he de-stresses? Is there anything else that helps him--like a back massage or something like that? Do you think that giving him a hug and saying something like, "I'm sorry you had a bad day--How about a glass a wine and I can rub your back," or whatever works for the two of you, might help?

Grace, I'm hearing that there's a lot of independent behavior in your marriage, from both you and Hilltopper. IB behavior is what kills compatibility in a marriage.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5004_qa.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3406_independent.html

When either one of you is doing something that the other is not enthusiastic about, it is going to make love bank withdrawals. That's why Dr. Harley came up with the Policy of Joint Agreement, to guide ALL your decisions and actions, because EVERYTHING you do affects one another.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html


Wouldn't you be happier if Hilltopper was following that rule? And vice versa?

Maybe you can bring this issue up to Hilltopper respectfully. You can say (or write him a letter): "I think both of us are doing a lot of things that the other is not enthusiastic about, and this is making love bank withdrawals. Would you read through these articles on independent behavior and the policy of joint agreement? How would you feel about adopting this rule (the POJA) for everything we do, so we can stop this source of love bank withdrawals?" Hilltopper seems committed to trying this program, so I think there's a good chance he would respond well to this.

Also, what SusieQ said about undivided attention is absolutely correct. Your marriage is going to have trouble operating smoothly until you get it this necessary, regular maintenance.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_attn.html

Also, Grace, why didn't you take me up on my suggestion to try to contact Dr. Harley and Joyce on their radio program? I'm sure Dr. Harley can give better, more customized advice when he hears both sides of the situation. Prisca and I had a lot of trouble getting start making this program work for our marriage, but we are so glad we did! We had been eyeing this website for years before I finally started asking questions here and starting finding out what I was missing in making this work for us.

A big problem I'm seeing is that neither of you are following the POJA. He wants to drink wine when you don't want him to, but he does it anyway. You want to garden when he doesn't want you to, but you do it anyway ....

Having a UA schedule will go a long way towards helping you here. Markos and I find it is best to schedule in the middle of the week for the FOLLOWING week. You can take a few days, then, to bounce ideas back and forth. Try it. Tomorrow's Thursday. Make a schedule for next week and give it to Hilltopper and ask him for his input.

Schedule what nights you will drink wine, and what nights are wine-free. Schedule time for you to garden that he will be enthusiastic about. Talk it over ahead of time and come to some agreements. Use the POJA to protect each other and show care for each other.

You must follow the program, or the program will not work. UA that both of you find enjoyable is vital to the program. Scheduling 15-30 hours UA each week is vital to the program. Not dwelling on the past is vital to the program. Following POJA is vital to the program. You can not skip these things and then say that the program is not working

On that note, your post is riddled with DJs. How are you doing in eliminating the DJs and AOs?

Grace, you can do this. I've been there, right there where you are. This program really does work. I was the BIGGEST doubter you'd ever run into. But, once I really gave it a chance and started to follow it to the letter, it worked. Things changed. I changed. Markos changed, too. He was a verbal abuser, majoring in AOs and DJs, but now he is the gentlest man I've ever known.

You can do this. Remember, concentrate on yourself, on what you can change, and don't dwell on past mistakes. Hilltopper can change and become the man of your dreams -- he's working on it, although it may not seem so at times.

Grace, how long has it been since you read through the Basic Concepts?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=3

The first time through, we usually don't pick up on everything.

These concepts really do work to make a marriage great and enjoyable for both husband and wife. It might help if you can start wording your problems into a list of situations where you and Hilltopper are not following the concepts.

What's IMHO?

I've only had a chance to read the opening to thread, I will read more.

We will discuss POJA more in depth and UA time as well. I can say we definitely had 15 hours of UA time last week. I will start tracking.

Number one I have zero desire to be on the radio. And number two, I don't believe you can get a good grasp on things from a 10 minute interview on an entire marriage. I'm not saying they aren't providing good advice, I'm just not into the radio thing.

Yes I already knew I was writing the DJ's and honestly didn't care when I was writing that post. AO's have been eliminated entirely. DJ's are in progress.

IMHO = in my honest opinion.

So you had 15 hrs UA time last week? Can you tell us what you did on what days then? I am not following how you would know that if you are not tracking it...

Off the top of my head for the activities I can remember

Two nights of scrabble
Walk down to the grocery store, cook together dinner
Filled out workbooks and read them back to each other, reading
Coffee one morning
Coffee, drive home, conversation as the kids slept
Sex (two days) I'm sure that counts as UA time
Not sure on this weekend, too much time with friends and late night H had too much to drink to consider any quality UA time

OK, just so that you know if the walk was with the baby, it doesn't count. If the kids were around when you were cooking dinner it doesn't count.

I am going to encourage you again, grace, because it is THAT important, that the two of you sit down and schedule your time. THen get your sitter set up. My H and I have at least one date night a week, including the car drive & conversation, it is a good chunk of time, about 4 hrs. We get massive LB$ deposits made during that time.

I am also going to encourage you to fill write it down and keep track of the hours. Other posters have said, and this is true for myself as well, on weeks when we don't get GREAT UA time in, our M suffers almost immediately. It is very eye opening to be able to see it correlate to the UA time.

If you don't have an interest in utilizing the radio show, by all means, your choice...

But I would like to point out that it's not just "10 minutes on the radio". You can write an email detailing whatever history you think is relevant to the issue you want help with. They very often say "Dr Harley has read your entire email". Also I have heard them spend much more than 10 minutes with many callers. Thirdly, it's possible they may answer your question on the show without your having to call in. My H and I have both called in and I thought it was a neat experience!

I dunno, maybe it is just me, but unless you thought your H didn't give them relevant information, I would just get your UA time in for a period of time, track it, do your best to meet ENS, avoid lovebusters and re-evaluate where you are at that time and then write in if you still feel like you two are strugglin. Just my 2cents!

No the kids were all at my parents house while cooking and eating together.

And the baby was asleep the whole time on our walk. Dr. Harvey states it is ok to have UA time if children are not awake. There was definite quality UA time.

I have no problem writing down and tracking the hours. I'll start there.