Someone's been reading Tim Keller and Peacemaker material...
;-)

Unfortunately, it takes 2-5 years to recover from an A and that is IF you have all of the info right up front. Trickle truths and continued lying drag the recovery out further.

Your W should be thrilled to take a poly to prove to you that you know it all if, indeed, she is telling the whole truth. If she refuses or is reluctant you can pretty much bet she is still lying.

My FWH didn't bat an eye when a poly was suggested to him. He scheduled it immediately and passed it easily. This was huge to our recovery.

Old War Horse:
Keeping asking questions of ther real experienced members of this forum. And take away something away from every comment from every member who posts to you. We are all here for you.
Several posts here suggest seeing a physician.
OWH please, do this. If you value your ability to see this through, please do this. And follow-up. Pschologists are not one size fits all. Your pain is real. I still have mine and I am two years past my first D-day and 15 months from my wife admitting the first Emotional Affair (?if it was that), and 18 some odd months since discovery of the second affair (and it was probably both and Emotional and Physical Affair) and who knows if there were others before or since....
The doctor can help. I beg you. I know. This forum poster was ready at one point to leave this earth. I like you (or so I suspect) know what war and death is. And I thought I was toughened by life and would never need help. I can compare war and death and killing and the impact of infidelity first hand. I assure you, I know that infidelity with someone you totally trust is worse. If you love your wife.... Do everything you can to help yourself FIRST. If that means relying on a pill to get you through the emotional upheaval, do it for yourself. Please.
Educate yourself. People here will help.
Please. You took the first step and came here.
Give you and your wife a chance.

Blessings and prayers for you today.
Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)
Everyonce in a while I took the advice and each time it has led to some improvement.

Hi CV,

You said Who? Actually this advice has been offered here since 1999. It was the product of several long threads discussing what forgiveness was and was not.

JL

Just chiming in on the time factor, and getting over the punch to the Gonads that your discovery brought you. Yes 2-5 is a good approximate time to get over the infidelity.

But you can't leave one stone unturned or ignore anything that you have learned now, and she is allways going to be suspect that she tends to be dishonest. You need to work on everything else and be happy to do it, forgiving as time goes on and trust is restored while she does a lot of heavy lifting to do that also.

I hope you can do this work together and in 5 years if it ever come up in your mind, you can brush it off, but please use the tools here so you can rebuild what has been lost. Thats where those black days come from BTW, every BS has gone through it at different levels.

Even if you take Anti-Ds for a time you will still need counseling to monitor them and I suggest it strongly that you have that if you take them. Personnaly they never did much for me, and I am a results person also and heal with time as long as I see the right results. Either way you should have some counselling fro depression and your marriage. Dr. H would be your best choice, it worth way more than it costs.

God Bless

Agreed.

"The doctor can help. I beg you."

Tim Keller is a pastor who has written several things on biblical reconciliation, one of them is a book called the Peacemaker. There are some remarkable similarities in what you said and some of the things that are laid out in the book.

CV

OWH,

I hope this morning finds you in better spirits... A few comments of mine in blue...

Of course

". . .MB has taken some solid principles and built out a largely successful plan . . ."

well, one place you can feel safe venting is here. Come and rant and vent at us. There will come a time when you will eventually have to learn how to discuss it in a productive manner.

one of my professors mentioned this during a public speaking class... If you have a penetrating question you want to ask your audience or make a point, examine it and see if it carries an inflamatory tone that would turn the audience off to your message:

"America is a country of takers only interested in receiving a handout, friends you are America. You are a taker. You need to stop destroying this country"

Or

"Many in America have been takers, this has led to the destruction of many of the things we hold dear... Friends I want to ask you to examine yourselves... Look into your hearts, we are all takers at times. Ask yourself am I guilty of this too"

I dont know if that makes sense or not... It is kind of turning the question on it's head... saying the same thing in a different way. Writre your questions in a notebook (someone mentioned this in another thread) and let her respond in a notebook, until you get to a point where you can talk about it face to face.

Cv

I know

Old War Horse,
We will listen here whenever you need to vent. I understand your distrust of physicians and trustworthiness. I assure you I have more experience in that field than most anyone on this board. I am a hospital administrator and have been for 30+ years and my father was a hospital administrator and my grandfather was a hospital administrator.
So, you see yourself as a tough old bird. Maybe you are. I admire that. And I admire your wish not to be vindictive. I see that too. BUT, and it is a big BUT... you are human. There were days (and are days) when I actually feel empathy for my wife and her Other Man (Men). Even sympathy for both of them. However, there are days that cannot be predicted when the emotional tidal wave sweeps in unexpectedly. From what I can tell after two years of reading this board, it happens on anniversary days, it happens when something happens to remind us, and it happens sometimes out of the blue. Right now, you have human emotions of adjustment to change (Shock, Disbelief, Anger, Grief, Blaming (others and then yourself i.e. guilt) and if we are fortunate enough eventually we get to Acceptance) that will challenge you. We generally ALL go through them. Except it is not the straight line that the list above suggests. We zig and we zag between them.
And we all go through this grief on our time schedule and in our own way.
If you need to yell, do it in writing here. If you need to blame someone, blame me, if you start to get down on yourself talk in writing to us.
Here is a reality check... Have you made it through your entire marriage without ever checking out, or thinking about another woman while you were married? Have you ever been tempted? Has anyone ever taken a pass or suggested they wanted something more from you? Have you ever wanted to have an affair? No need to answer, just something for you to think about. You appear to have a very strong constitution. You may always have done what was right your entire life. And that is admirable.
If that is the case you may well be able to take the high road here as you appear to be.
BUT, again, at your age, you know full well that the world is not full of people with that strength. I ask you keep that in mind on the days (and there will be those days) when the anger and hurt want to take over and you are fighting them back.
Just my observation, but generally a marriage has one much, much stronger personality. Your tough old bird personality may be why your wife needed you. Perhaps You provided her with strength.
There are 10 Million Possible reasons why this occurred with your wife and none of them may have anything to do with you. Its common for a wayward spouse to find everything wrong with their spouse when they go or have just been wayward. That is nature's way for human beings with a free will to justify their behavior. If this a time when you can look at yourself and address any of the issues you were pounded on in the marriage counseling session... think about how you can help yourself by eliminating those "grievances" in the future.
This is a time for you to do a full inventory of your own needs and your wife's needs. Have you looked at the Needs questionaires on this site? Consider printing them out and filling them out and asking your wife to fill them out. If you like the tools you see but you wish to pick and choose, well... in my opinion, trying some of them is better than trying none of them or ignoring them. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Here for you I am.

Blessings,
Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)
Everyonce in a while I took the advice and each time it has led to some improvement.

What evidence? Your own? Because this is not what is recommended here or by Dr. Harley.

It's crucial that OMW knows. This is pertinent information to her life that you are keeping from her. You know...treat other's as you would want to be treated and all of that. Same stuff we teach our children.

Additionally, you need her to know to help ensure that NC is in place from her end. She can't be on the lookout for broken NC if she doesn't know what she is looking for.

The OMW needs to know. You are making a grave mistake by not telling her.

This is why the OMW needs to know. She deserves to know what her H is saying to other women. And YOU need her help ~ she may be able to supply you with additional information as well as helping to watch for broken NC.

HT

"but infidelity is not in me" I see you dont agree with DR H on this. His assertion is we are ALL wired for an affair. Thus if we dont admit it we also are a danger to our spouses by not having EPs in place.
I also agree that telling the OMW is the right thing to do. This is vital information about her life. I would go as far as sending a copy of SAA. She deserves to know of the most heinous atrocities one can visit upon another human being

As

Then you phrase your conversation with the OMW with that in mind. e.g. "OMW, I'm sorry to inform you, but my wife has informed me that she was involved in an EA with your OM, and that it was likely going to progress to a PA had I not found out..."

You may find out that the OMW got an entirely different story from the OM. You may also find out that the OMW may be more successful than you have been in getting the truth from the wayward spouse.